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Thread: Confused about open carry laws at 18 years old

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    Confused about open carry laws at 18 years old

    I have been doing a lot of research on this and have come up with a lot of different answers. Opencarry.org says the minimum age to OC is 18 years old, but it cites nowhere that would prove my case in the event i get harassed by the police.
    I asked a police officer about the matter but he said i could only carry it while accompanied by someone at or over the age of 21 to and from the range. But he also said i could not purchase a handgun and could only have it gifted to me, which if my understanding is correct is not the case because i can buy from private sales.


    I live with my fiance in an apartment in Lone Tree and her working graveyard shift has attracted a lot of let's say unwanted attention and i feel i need something to protect myself outside of my house. Most recently this attention is from a homeless man who hangs around her place of business, bothers me for money and a place to stay, and talks alot about his experiences as a meth addict even after i tell him to leave me alone.. While he has done nothing to suggest he is a danger to me and therefor the police will not do anything, I want to know that i can hang out with her while she works while armed in case he or several of the other obviously intoxicated individuals that usually harass her escalate their odd behavior.

    If anyone can help me out it would be greatly appreciated.

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    oops.

    According to the NRAILA site i may not be able to purchase a handgun in a private sale either. None the less I was going to have a handgun gifted to me which is still legal.

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    Im not sure about your state

    I have recently discovered that you only have to be 18 to possess a handgun. The federal law is 18. The state law in Ohio is 18. I contacted the franklin county sheriff dept and was told 18 is the age for open carry. You also can buy in private sales. Im working on getting a letter for the sheriff to keep on me in case in stopped by the police. Hope this helps let me know what state you are in.

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    I'm in Colorado, last time i called the local law enforcement (i think it was my local sheriff's department) they told me that they thought they knew the answer but recommended i check the internet. But that was about our new background check's during private transactions. Hopefully they will know more about an older law, but whoever the cop was that I asked really seemed like he knew nothing about the topic.

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    Wowwie!!!!

    NEVER ASK the COPS for LEGAL advice!!!!

    BTW, I think it is the true measure of their idiocy when they advise someone to "look it up on the internet"!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    NEVER ASK the COPS for LEGAL advice!!!!

    BTW, I think it is the true measure of their idiocy when they advise someone to "look it up on the internet"!
    right? these are the same people that a majority of the country trusts their lives with. But the problem is i'm just really stuck in the dark here with the laws on this subject, cannot afford an attorney for the sole purpose of deciding whether or not its legal, and don't want the next few months of my life to be spent in a prison cell simply because the law was vague on the matter. I have what i think are the combination of laws saying i have the legal right to OC, but i'll give a call to my local sheriff because i'd much rather have something they wrote than simply the laws on the matter. I feel like they'd be much more likely to just let me go if i show them a letter from our local sheriff, and im stuck with visions of being stuck in a cell till they learn to read the very law they swore to uphold.

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    There are two issues here. The cops are not bound to the truth, they are enforcers of the law and not interpreters of the law. The law in general prohibits and does not permit. You cannot find what does not exist.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronWatkins15 View Post
    I have recently discovered that you only have to be 18 to possess a handgun. The federal law is 18. The state law in Ohio is 18. I contacted the franklin county sheriff dept and was told 18 is the age for open carry. You also can buy in private sales. Im working on getting a letter for the sheriff to keep on me in case in stopped by the police. Hope this helps let me know what state you are in.
    You should read http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ge-for-hanguns - be sure to read it all the way through. In Ohio, it is illegal for you to buy a handgun if you are under 21 (except for a couple of LEO / military exceptions), and it is illegal for anyone to sell you a handgun or furnish you a handgun if you are under 21 except for very specific purposes, and even then it must be under the supervision of a responsible adult.

    The way I read Ohio law, the only legal way for someone under 21 who is not LEO or military to own a handgun is to acquire it in a state where it is legal for them to do so, then move to Ohio.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    --snipped--............ it is illegal for anyone to sell you a handgun or furnish you a handgun if you are under 21 except for very specific purposes, and even then it must be under the supervision of a responsible adult.

    The way I read Ohio law, the only legal way for someone under 21 who is not LEO or military to own a handgun is to acquire it in a state where it is legal for them to do so, then move to Ohio.
    True.

    Under age acquisition of a handgun in Ohio:
    http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    There are two issues here. The cops are not bound to the truth, they are enforcers of the law and not interpreters of the law. The law in general prohibits and does not permit. You cannot find what does not exist.
    so should i assume that a combination of

    18-12-108.5. Possession of handguns by juveniles - prohibited - exceptions - penalty.
    Statute text

    (1) (a) Except as provided in this section, it is unlawful for any person who has not attained the age of eighteen years knowingly to have any handgun in such person's possession.

    and

    Article II,
    Section 13, of the Colorado Constitution states:
    The right of no person to keep and bear ar
    ms in defense of his home, person, and
    property, or in aid of the civil power wh
    en thereto legally summoned, shall be called
    in question; but nothing herein contained shall be construed to justify the practice
    of carrying concealed weapons.

    Is what im looking for?

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    Your basic problem in Colorado is that any way you turn, you need to do a background check to own the handgun. Before July 1st, someone in your family could have gifted you a handgun at age 18 and then you would be in legal possession of the gun. But now there needs to be a background check, and you can't do that for a handgun until you are 21. So yeah, you can carry one, but you can't really legally acquire one to carry. Not in Colorado. Unless you moved here with it already in your possession.

    At least, that is my understanding of current law in CO.

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    Regarding Colorado's universal background check:

    House Bill 13-1229
    Section 1
    (6) THE PROVISIONS OF THIS SECTION DO NOT APPLY TO
    (b) A TRANSFER THAT IS A BONA FIDE GIFT OR LOAN BETWEEN IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBERS, WHICH ARE LIMITED TO SPOUSES, PARENTS, CHILDREN, SIBLINGS, GRANDPARENTS, GRANDCHILDREN, NIECES, NEPHEWS, FIRST COUSINS, AUNTS, AND UNCLES

    That, and the CRS you quoted should answer your questions.

    While wanting to protect your loved ones is understandable, you might want to ask yourself a few questions. Are you are willing to sit there all night while she works? Is it ok with her employer? Would it be a distraction for her to do her job effectively? Is there a reason why she can't arm herself? How are you going to manage getting sleep and make it to your own job? If you fell asleep would you be able to respond in time to a threat? Would you be alert and aware enough to determine if the use of deadly force is necessary and justifiable? etc.
    Last edited by Dario; 12-04-2013 at 03:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bomber View Post
    Your basic problem in Colorado is that any way you turn, you need to do a background check to own the handgun. Before July 1st, someone in your family could have gifted you a handgun at age 18 and then you would be in legal possession of the gun. But now there needs to be a background check, and you can't do that for a handgun until you are 21. So yeah, you can carry one, but you can't really legally acquire one to carry. Not in Colorado. Unless you moved here with it already in your possession.

    At least, that is my understanding of current law in CO.
    Do you happen to have a cite for this? I am unaware of any law that prevents and FFL from doing a background check for a person under 21. I though the law was worded that an FFL can not sell a handgun to a person under 21.
    Colorado Gun Owners - COGO
    http://www.ColoradoGunOwners.com

    A discussion forum for Colorado Gun Owners.

    Colorado Firearm law.
    http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
    Lexis Nexis: Colorado law pertaining to firearms.
    Title 18, Article 12

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    Here's the sticky point on FFL transfers. When you do it according to CO law, the FFL receives the gun and logs it in. Then runs the check on the buyer who is required to fill out a 4473 form. Problem is, on that form there are sections for age and for type of gun. Which means that on the 4473 form, it is registered as a transfer of a handgun to a person under 21. (This is where the 3 red X's from family feud should flash on the screen.)

    US Code Title 18, Section 922 (b):

    (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
    (1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;

    Now the tricky part isn't the "sell" it's the "deliver". The question you'll have to answer in a court of law is does transferring the handgun from someone to someone else constitute "delivering". I would wager that some FFL's will say yes and refuse. Right or wrong, that seems like what you will run into.

    Further, keep in mind that it is illegal to sell ammo to anyone under 21 knowing that it is intended for a handgun. So if you go to buy, tell them it's for a carbine rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    Here's the sticky point on FFL transfers. When you do it according to CO law, the FFL receives the gun and logs it in. Then runs the check on the buyer who is required to fill out a 4473 form. Problem is, on that form there are sections for age and for type of gun. Which means that on the 4473 form, it is registered as a transfer of a handgun to a person under 21. (This is where the 3 red X's from family feud should flash on the screen.)

    US Code Title 18, Section 922 (b):

    (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
    (1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;

    Now the tricky part isn't the "sell" it's the "deliver". The question you'll have to answer in a court of law is does transferring the handgun from someone to someone else constitute "delivering". I would wager that some FFL's will say yes and refuse. Right or wrong, that seems like what you will run into.

    Further, keep in mind that it is illegal to sell ammo to anyone under 21 knowing that it is intended for a handgun. So if you go to buy, tell them it's for a carbine rifle.
    Solution, have bigger families!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    Regarding Colorado's universal background check:

    House Bill 13-1229
    Section 1
    (6) THE PROVISIONS OF THIS SECTION DO NOT APPLY TO
    (b) A TRANSFER THAT IS A BONA FIDE GIFT OR LOAN BETWEEN IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBERS, WHICH ARE LIMITED TO SPOUSES, PARENTS, CHILDREN, SIBLINGS, GRANDPARENTS, GRANDCHILDREN, NIECES, NEPHEWS, FIRST COUSINS, AUNTS, AND UNCLES

    That, and the CRS you quoted should answer your questions.

    While wanting to protect your loved ones is understandable, you might want to ask yourself a few questions. Are you are willing to sit there all night while she works? Is it ok with her employer? Would it be a distraction for her to do her job effectively? Is there a reason why she can't arm herself? How are you going to manage getting sleep and make it to your own job? If you fell asleep would you be able to respond in time to a threat? Would you be alert and aware enough to determine if the use of deadly force is necessary and justifiable? etc.
    1. I'd only have to wait around from the hours of 12 to about 3:00 when she closes the store and by the time she opens the store back up in an hour her manager and other co-workers are there. 2. There is nothing posted anywhere around the store that says to weapons allowed, i see people open carry into the store alot, and her manager has said she is okay with me being around at graveyard as long as she gets work done. 3.The store policy is that no employee is allowed to have any weapon, even pepper spray, and if held up to give them anything they want (in april when she turns 21 i'll be helping her get her CC and she will carry anyway, the job is not THAT important). that would be fine if that wasn't the only thing these people are after, and if they didn't get rid of the panic button for the store. The store is the second busiest in the state and the safeway next door was robbed in broad daylight in October. 4. She only works graveyard twice a week if that. I work as a freelance IT tech and web designer which gives me as much lee way as i need for when i do the work as long as the work is done. 5 & 6 I do a majority of my work at night, and am a naturally aware person who uses common since (while writing code, etc.) everyday while working.

    Also i wouldn't be going down there everytime she works graveyard, only on the nights she calls me crying about some guy who wouldn't leave till someone else came in. Those nights I usually just wait around anyway and nothing happens, but with some of the things these sick people say, the conclusion that they may escalate is not a very far leap. I just want to know if the worse possible scenario happens, i'd be ready

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    Keep in mind also that the crime is not buying, the crime is selling/delivering. So the risk is all on the FFL, not on the buyer. Which is probably why you find a lot of skittish FFL's who avoid these things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    Keep in mind also that the crime is not buying, the crime is selling/delivering. So the risk is all on the FFL, not on the buyer. Which is probably why you find a lot of skittish FFL's who avoid these things.
    Yea my dad was going to give me this gun, i already know how to skittish ffl's are i have a hi-point carbine chambered in .40 and the only place i can ever get ammo for it is at the range, and even then it depends on who is working.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    Regarding Colorado's universal background check:

    House Bill 13-1229
    Section 1
    (6) THE PROVISIONS OF THIS SECTION DO NOT APPLY TO
    (b) A TRANSFER THAT IS A BONA FIDE GIFT OR LOAN BETWEEN IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBERS, WHICH ARE LIMITED TO SPOUSES, PARENTS, CHILDREN, SIBLINGS, GRANDPARENTS, GRANDCHILDREN, NIECES, NEPHEWS, FIRST COUSINS, AUNTS, AND UNCLES

    That, and the CRS you quoted should answer your questions.
    Can you summarize the law on Colorado transfer requirements? I mean, does Colorado expect everyone to go thru federal dealers to buy guns? If so, except for section 6(b) above, that pretty much shuts the door on handgun purchases by those under 21.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Can you summarize the law on Colorado transfer requirements? I mean, does Colorado expect everyone to go thru federal dealers to buy guns? If so, except for section 6(b) above, that pretty much shuts the door on handgun purchases by those under 21.
    It looks as though, if you were to receive a gift--and I do mean a gift--of a firearm from your father, you'd be OK, no need for the check. But if there was even a *hint* that you *might* have paid him for the gun, there could be trouble. But: I Am Not A Lawyer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I mean, does Colorado expect everyone to go thru federal dealers to buy guns? If so, except for section 6(b) above, that pretty much shuts the door on handgun purchases by those under 21.
    That about sums it up, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveInCO View Post
    It looks as though, if you were to receive a gift--and I do mean a gift--of a firearm from your father, you'd be OK, no need for the check. But if there was even a *hint* that you *might* have paid him for the gun, there could be trouble. But: I Am Not A Lawyer.
    Fortunately CRS 29-11.7-102 prohibits gun registration which basically makes this bill un-enforcable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    That about sums it up, yes.



    Fortunately CRS 29-11.7-102 prohibits gun registration which basically makes this bill un-enforcable.
    But by the same token, it could be a red flag if there were an arrest for whatever reason, and it was a check written, or something like that.

    It's a really bad idea for your dad to buy a firearm with the intended purpose of turning around and selling it to you; legally that's a "straw purchase." Also hard to enforce but the federally required form will ask the question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveInCO View Post
    But by the same token, it could be a red flag if there were an arrest for whatever reason, and it was a check written, or something like that.

    It's a really bad idea for your dad to buy a firearm with the intended purpose of turning around and selling it to you; legally that's a "straw purchase." Also hard to enforce but the federally required form will ask the question.
    Sad but true. I weep for America while secretly anticipating the day when my son actually gives ME a check

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    Sad but true. I weep for America while secretly anticipating the day when my son actually gives ME a check
    Or returns something he has borrowed in a timely fashion, like my vintage Remington 1100.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveInCO View Post
    But by the same token, it could be a red flag if there were an arrest for whatever reason, and it was a check written, or something like that.

    It's a really bad idea for your dad to buy a firearm with the intended purpose of turning around and selling it to you; legally that's a "straw purchase." Also hard to enforce but the federally required form will ask the question.
    It would be a legitimate gift for Christmas. although the thought of paying him to buy it for me (which now i realize is not the best idea) has crossed my mind, i spent all my extra money on a new 74 with a surplus tin of ammo

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