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Thread: Got the "boot" from a Catholic Thrift Shop for Open Carrying in St. George

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    Regular Member TigerLily's Avatar
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    Got the "boot" from a Catholic Thrift Shop for Open Carrying in St. George

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yubPWtYruLU

    I think the thing that galls me about having been expelled from this place is that it is the 2a that defends that volunteer's 1a to practice her faith.
    Last edited by TigerLily; 12-04-2013 at 02:28 PM.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Yeah, American Catholics need to get together and tell the faith to stop demonizing firearms ownership... It's frustrating because I love my church and the good it does in the world, but the firearms demonization is not based on the bible and it's a social issue that they can do better not getting involved in
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member cjohnson44546's Avatar
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    Some people don't like to be confrontational. She may have been shaking just from adrenaline from having to approach you and that you were basically asked to leave, not just over a fear of guns.

    If someone asked me to leave my gun at the front desk... I would say something more along the lines of "Gun safety is too important to leave my gun unattended or in someone else's care, thats just asking for an accident to happen"

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    Should have told her that you were a priest .. Dirty Father Harry

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Next time, carry a sword!
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    The catholic church has been liberal and progressive for a very long time, it is unlikely to change.
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    Regular Member J_dazzle23's Avatar
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    I'm down in the area. Maybe ill pay a visit

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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerLily View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yubPWtYruLU

    I think the thing that galls me about having been expelled from this place is that it is the 2a that defends that volunteer's 1a to practice her faith.
    She's practicing it poorly. Luke 22:36, the verse about selling a cloak to buy a sword.

    You could also ask her why its OK for the pope to protect himself with a company of Swiss Guards armed to the teeth with automatic weapons, but its not OK for you to carry a single small pistol for your own defense.

    A little letter to the local diocese might be in order.
    Last edited by Citizen; 12-04-2013 at 11:37 PM.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    She's practicing it poorly. Luke 22:36, the verse about selling a cloak to buy a sword.

    You could also ask her why its OK for the pope to protect himself with a company of Swiss Guards armed to the teeth with automatic weapons, but its not OK for you to carry a single small pistol for your own defense.

    A little letter to the local diocese might be in order.
    Won't do anything, it's just like police and military forces, the higher in rank the more a politician they are. Most catholic bishops don't like guns that much. Write the diocese definitely, but I already know what they're going to say, and it won't be "we set our policy around local law."
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    ...Most catholic bishops don't like guns that much. ...
    Which "gun" are we talking about, again?

    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Which "gun" are we talking about, again?

    R Lee Ermy oughta run the catholic confirmation classes

    It can be boot camp for catholic doctrine

    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    The catholic church has been liberal and progressive for a very long time, it is unlikely to change.
    The new pope's first papal exhortation that was recently released sounded like a chapter from Karl Marx's Das Kapital. What little use I had for the catholic church (richest church on earth; made up of the poorest people on earth) is now gone!

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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    The new pope's first papal exhortation that was recently released sounded like a chapter from Karl Marx's Das Kapital. What little use I had for the catholic church (richest church on earth; made up of the poorest people on earth) is now gone!
    The Church and Marxism stem from the same Ancient Greek roots in the Platonic Ideal. Progressives struggle with the dialectic to attain their Ideal.
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    boot

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    The Church and Marxism stem from the same Ancient Greek roots in the Platonic Ideal. Progressives struggle with the dialectic to attain their Ideal.
    Why would you even shop at a store that promotes anti Semitic behavior and hatred of Christians?

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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    The new pope's first papal exhortation that was recently released sounded like a chapter from Karl Marx's Das Kapital. What little use I had for the catholic church (richest church on earth; made up of the poorest people on earth) is now gone!

    Sonny, when the church did start wholesale excommunications with politicians who supported abortion laws in the 70's & 80's showed that the church did not care about the Holy Ghost too much .... the church knows that abortion is a sin against the Holy Ghost that is never forgivable....damning millions to hell.

    Just church teaching der ..

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    So do you live in Mormonville or Polygamyville UT?

    I think I would have turned back in the $2.25 in items to her and left.
    Would think you should call back and ask the manager/priest/nun what their policy is on 2A and civil rights.

    Perhaps give some examples:
    - poor blacks w/o guns being lynched by WhiteGuysWAG,
    - Sandinistas (supported by Democrats) raping and killing nuns in Central America and terrorizing peasants that didn't own guns;
    - Jews in Rome that the Pope let the Nazis load up onto trains to extermination camps because they didn't have guns,
    - Mormons killed by folks back in MA, OH, IN and MO because they didn't have enough guns,
    - Mormons killing Arkansas settlers at Mountain Meadows because they didn't have enough guns…..
    “Men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them"
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    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    One never knows how one will react in these situations, but if I was able to think fast, I'd like it to go something like this:

    Freaked woman: "Is that loaded?"

    OCer: "That? Yes! -- I was wondering...Can you tell me where I would find the scarves??"

    Freaked woman: "Can I ask you to leave your gun at the front desk?"

    OCer: "Now you don't really think that would be a good idea, do you? Leaving a loaded gun in a desk where I child could get it? No, I prefer to have it safely holstered and ready for self defense. Also, what if a bad guy came in to rob the place? By the time I got back to the front desk to retrieve it, we'd all be dead! Naa.... I think it's gonna be safest right here. But anyway, back to the scarves -- I'm looking for a scarf that is red and that will go with this coat. Can you help me with that, Sweety?"

    Freaked woman: "I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to leave."

    EDIT: Maybe you should skip this manager part, depending on the laws of your state:
    OCer: "M'am, I afraid I'm going to need to speak with the manager of the store."

    {If the woman claims to be the manager and it seems believable, or she gets the manager and they aren't agreeable either, then...}

    OCer: "I'm really disappointed that you are willing to discriminate against a customer based solely on their choice to carry a defensive tool. I do have to let you know that me and my money have been coming here a long time and I will unfortunately not be returning. Good day to you..."
    Last edited by independence; 12-10-2013 at 12:52 PM. Reason: typos

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    One never knows how one will react in these situations, but if I was able to think fast, I'd like it to go something like this:

    Freaked woman: "Is that loaded?"

    OCer: "That? Yes! -- I was wondering...Can you tell me where I would find the scarves??"

    Freaked woman: "Can I ask you to leave your gun at the front desk?"

    OCer: "Now you don't really think that would be a good idea, do you? Leaving a loaded gun in a desk where I child could get it? No, I prefer to have it safely holstered and ready for self defense. Also, what if a bad guy came in to rob the place? By the time I got back to the front desk to retrieve it, we'd all be dead! Naa.... I think it's gonna be safest right here. But anyway, back to the scarves -- I'm looking for a scarf that is red and that will go with this coat. Can you help me with that, Sweety?"

    Freaked woman: "I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to leave."

    OCer: "M'am, I afraid I'm going to need to speak with the manager of the store."

    {If the woman claims to be the manager and it seems believable, or she gets the manager and they aren't agreeable either, then...}

    OCer: "I'm really disappointed that you are willing to discriminate against a customer based solely on their choice to carry a defensive tool. I do have to let you know that me and my money have been coming here a long time and I will unfortunately not be returning. Good day to you..."
    NO NO NO

    Do not refuse a command to leave the store given by any employee! If you believe they were not a manager leave and call one! Refusing commands to leave private property is a good way to get slapped with a jacket for criminal trespass!
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member independence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    NO NO NO

    Do not refuse a command to leave the store given by any employee! If you believe they were not a manager leave and call one! Refusing commands to leave private property is a good way to get slapped with a jacket for criminal trespass!
    Hmm. Never heard that before. Educate me, please. I thought it had to be someone in authority at the place of business. Perhaps I'm wrong. Does it differ from state to state?

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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    Hmm. Never heard that before. Educate me, please. I thought it had to be someone in authority at the place of business. Perhaps I'm wrong. Does it differ from state to state?
    It does vary from state to state. In Ohio it does not have to be someone with authority, any employee will do. I've seen in other state laws (but cannot recall which at the moment) where it must be someone with authority.
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Unless the law clearly says it must be a manager or the like, you should assume ANY employee has the authority.

    If I owned a place, I'd be pissed if a customer ignored an employee. That's why I hired them, to talk to customers so that I don't have to.

    If you think the employee is acting outside of his authority (and most aren't), you should leave first, then call.

    If it turns out you were right, the manager will first appreciate your respect of his store, and then apologize, and then train the employee.
    Last edited by MAC702; 12-10-2013 at 09:46 AM.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by independence View Post
    Hmm. Never heard that before. Educate me, please. I thought it had to be someone in authority at the place of business. Perhaps I'm wrong. Does it differ from state to state?
    well I can't speak for other states, in the States who's laws I know, Washington, Idaho, and Montana, there is no requirement in law for the trespass request to be from the owner or a manager, only from someone who is an agent of the owner, and employees are an agent of the owner. plus the term "manager" "boss" "supervisor" are not legally defined in criminal statutes. unless the term in law is defined it's up to the employer who's a "manager" if the manager goes on lunch break and hands her keys to th cashier and says "I'm off to dennys store's yours" that woman is now an acting manager.

    and if an employee calls the police the cops are not going to break open store policies and enforce store policy, if a store employee claims to have authority the cops will treat the trespass complaint like they do have such authority. if they don't that's a civil matter regarding the store and cops don't enforce civil matters. even if an employee doesn't have such authority, will a manager intervene on your behalf if you get cited for trespass if the clerk and police officer both tell them that the person trespass was armed with a gun and didn't follow requests and was argumentative?

    you have no way of knowing who truly has such authority. security guards almost always do, but any other employee can.

    so if I'm asked to leave, I would leave immediately and then call the store and ask to speak to a manager to clear it up. there's too many things that can go wrong with lingering on other's private property after being asked to leave. leave first, then call the manager, being a reasonable person will increase the odds the manager will act in your favor when you complain.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member TigerLily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J_dazzle23 View Post
    I'm down in the area. Maybe ill pay a visit

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    Do tell what happens if you go. Thanks!
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    Regular Member TigerLily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPmatt View Post
    So do you live in Mormonville or Polygamyville UT?

    I think I would have turned back in the $2.25 in items to her and left.
    Would think you should call back and ask the manager/priest/nun what their policy is on 2A and civil rights.

    Perhaps give some examples:
    - poor blacks w/o guns being lynched by WhiteGuysWAG,
    - Sandinistas (supported by Democrats) raping and killing nuns in Central America and terrorizing peasants that didn't own guns;
    - Jews in Rome that the Pope let the Nazis load up onto trains to extermination camps because they didn't have guns,
    - Mormons killed by folks back in MA, OH, IN and MO because they didn't have enough guns,
    - Mormons killing Arkansas settlers at Mountain Meadows because they didn't have enough guns…..
    Technically I live in Central, Utah. It's a misnomer cause it's not in the center of Utah, but it's a town called "Central." It's easier to say polygammyville or mormonville. And btw, I live just a stone's throw from the Mountain Meadows Massacre. I'll see if I can upload my pic of me at the memorial.
    Last edited by TigerLily; 12-10-2013 at 03:03 PM.
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  25. #25
    Regular Member TigerLily's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the great feedback. Really great post by independence. Great way to ruminate these scenarios in one's mind.

    I will have a radio show tomorrow on BTR about this issue. My show will run from 5-7pm MOUNTAIN time. I plan to review some of the posts on here on radio. I won't identify anyone on here cause I don't want to over-step.

    Fair warning - I am an out-of-the-closet atheist and anarchist. Personally, I don't have nearly as much issue with religion as I do with government. I agree with Larken Rose that our belief in government/authority is the most dangerous superstition of all.

    Also, I'm debating on whether it's too soon to slam Nelson Mandela. He was brutal and this fascination that lame-stream has to put him on a pedestal is tragic. Any thoughts?

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