Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: ex police and CCW permits

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    idaho
    Posts
    760

    ex police and CCW permits

    I just met a guy who is an ex cop and he says he had to apply for a CCW permit and its only good in 34 states.

    I told him I thought ex cops automatically have ccw priviledges and its good in all 50 states.

    whats the deal ?

  2. #2
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Montgomery, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    1,770
    Just as a SWAG, I'd say it has to do with the reason he is an ex-cop.
    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

  3. #3
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Are u referring to leosa? You have to be retired from the job last time I checked. So if your fired or quit it doesn't apply. Ilk see if I can find the link a Buddy sent

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  4. #4
    Regular Member BrianB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    239
    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    Just as a SWAG, I'd say it has to do with the reason he is an ex-cop.
    Yep, not all ex-cops qualify. Under LEOSA:

    In accordance with 18 USC 926C,[5] a "qualified retired law enforcement officer" is an individual who:

    1. separated from service in good standing from service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer;

    2. before such separation, was authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and had statutory powers of arrest or apprehension under section 807(b) of title 10, United States Code (article 7(b) of the Uniform Code of Military Justice);

    3. before such separation, served as a law enforcement officer for an aggregate of 10 years or more; or separated from service with such agency, after completing any applicable probationary period of such service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by such agency;

    4. during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the standards for qualification in firearms training for active law enforcement officers, as determined by the former agency of the individual, the State in which the individual resides or, if the State has not established such standards, either a law enforcement agency within the State in which the individual resides or the standards used by a certified firearms instructor that is qualified to conduct a firearms qualification test for active duty officers within that State;

    5. has not been officially found by a qualified medical professional employed by the agency to be unqualified for reasons relating to mental health and as a result of this finding will not be issued photographic identification; or has not entered into an agreement with the agency from which the individual is separating from service in which that individual acknowledges he or she is not qualified under this section for reasons relating to mental health and for those reasons will not receive or accept photographic identification;

    6. is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

    7. is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.
    Last edited by BrianB; 12-04-2013 at 10:14 PM.
    NRA Certified Instructor
    NRA Chief Range Safety Officer
    Front Sight Distinguished Graduate, Handgun, Glock 35 and Glock 23
    FFL Type 7, Class 2 SOT (Licensed NFA Firearms Manufacturer)
    If you CCW, consider the benefits of joining CCWSafe.com.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Fayetteville
    Posts
    66
    In NC, the qualifications under LEOSA is a lot more strict then just carrying concealed with a normal civillian permit. Annual certifications versus shooting just once. 100 rounds day/night fire compared to about 25 in one sitting amongst other differences. Big difference.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief1297 View Post
    In NC, the qualifications under LEOSA is a lot more strict then just carrying concealed with a normal civillian permit. Annual certifications versus shooting just once. 100 rounds day/night fire compared to about 25 in one sitting amongst other differences. Big difference.
    I've been having trouble finding out exactly how that works. Each state has different leosa rules? I've heard that some PDS don't know or understand it so they lock off duties up over it. Has anyone heard about ocing under leosa? Like say I went to an oc meet up in a different state anyone know if leosa would cover it? Or does it go state by state?

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    I've been having trouble finding out exactly how that works. Each state has different leosa rules? I've heard that some PDS don't know or understand it so they lock off duties up over it. Has anyone heard about ocing under leosa? Like say I went to an oc meet up in a different state anyone know if leosa would cover it? Or does it go state by state?

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    LEOSA only covers CC. Read it for the proof. And it's not a blanket permission. Emphasis added

    (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified retired law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b). (b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that - (1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or (2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.
    - See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/1....8kEUWYBd.dpuf

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,154

    Santo fumo!

    Only a CCW from Interstate Commerce? Not a CCW from local state manufacture?
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Only a CCW from Interstate Commerce? Not a CCW from local state manufacture?
    1 - You know this is just muddying the waters and gets the discussion nowhere. Stop it.

    2 - You know Congress cannot do anything about something that happens entirely within the borders of a single state. (And yes, they pervert things by arguing that if the raw materials moved in interstate commerce ....)

    3 - Seriously, how is this argument of yours going? Has it actually acomplished anything? If so please share the news. (And remember that any answer you provide will be causing electrons to move in interstate commerce, so watch out for congressional interference.)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    northern wis
    Posts
    3,199
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    1 - You know this is just muddying the waters and gets the discussion nowhere. Stop it.

    2 - You know Congress cannot do anything about something that happens entirely within the borders of a single state. (And yes, they pervert things by arguing that if the raw materials moved in interstate commerce ....)

    3 - Seriously, how is this argument of yours going? Has it actually acomplished anything? If so please share the news. (And remember that any answer you provide will be causing electrons to move in interstate commerce, so watch out for congressional interference.)

    stay safe.
    What does this have to do with the OP
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    northern wis
    Posts
    3,199
    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    I've been having trouble finding out exactly how that works. Each state has different leosa rules? I've heard that some PDS don't know or understand it so they lock off duties up over it. Has anyone heard about ocing under leosa? Like say I went to an oc meet up in a different state anyone know if leosa would cover it? Or does it go state by state?

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    It took a change in state law in Wis. to get a lot of departments to recognize the LEOSA most of them were dragging their feet when it came to letting retired LEOs qualify. Now they have to authorize it, they just can not deny them by inaction.

    I carry both LEOSA card and my states CCW it would be cheaper just to have the CCW.

    It costs me about 60 dollars each year to keep my LEOSA cert, ammo, gas, 15.00 card fee and about 4 hrs of time.

    Just do a google search on HR218 the state your interested in and one well find out a lot of information.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

  12. #12
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    It took a change in state law in Wis. to get a lot of departments to recognize the LEOSA most of them were dragging their feet when it came to letting retired LEOs qualify. Now they have to authorize it, they just can not deny them by inaction.

    I carry both LEOSA card and my states CCW it would be cheaper just to have the CCW.

    It costs me about 60 dollars each year to keep my LEOSA cert, ammo, gas, 15.00 card fee and about 4 hrs of time.

    Just do a google search on HR218 the state your interested in and one well find out a lot of information.
    Thank you FI I appreciate the heads up. I'd be looking to use it when I go to Utah for their concealed carry permit instructor.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  13. #13
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    12,277
    Current police officers do not need a LEOSA card.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  14. #14
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    They be special.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  15. #15
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,876
    Quote Originally Posted by Chief1297 View Post
    In NC, the qualifications under LEOSA is a lot more strict then just carrying concealed with a normal civillian permit. Annual certifications versus shooting just once. 100 rounds day/night fire compared to about 25 in one sitting amongst other differences. Big difference.
    can you provide a cite for your statement?

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    What does this have to do with the OP
    Has nothing to do with the OP. That's why I quoted Nightmare's comment, which not only has nothing to do with the OP but (comment self-moderated to avoid further thread drift to discuss Nightmare's veering into political swamps).

    We occassionally engage in back-and-forth about the quality of someone's post. It's just how things are done.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    northern wis
    Posts
    3,199
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    can you provide a cite for your statement?

    ipse
    It depends a lot on the individual department mine requires 46 rounds day light only from 3 to 25 yards pistol and revolver if you want to carry both.

    Some departments try and make it very hard and expensive for their retirees to get their cards each state and each department can and could have different standards.

    Unless codify in state law they can vary greatly.

    As stated before just do a Google search for HR218 and what state your interested in and you can find out a lot. Looks like NC leaves a lot of to the individual departments.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 12-08-2013 at 09:02 AM.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    I certify cops for LEOSA in NV. They have to come to me (or one of us) every year for a live-fire qualification. And it does not exempt them from the background check if they buy a gun.

    Many who qualify for LEOSA will also get the state's CCW permit, or just get it instead, because of the 5-year renewal and background check exemption.
    Last edited by MAC702; 12-08-2013 at 10:49 AM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  19. #19
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    here nc
    Posts
    6,876
    thanks gentlemen for your responses as i am sure they are correct for your individual spheres of expertise, but since chief specifically stated this is how it was in NC, i was particularly looking for a cite for that state's data component.

    again thanks...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  20. #20
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,273
    LEOSA will become moot as liberty continues to be restored.

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    thanks gentlemen for your responses as i am sure they are correct for your individual spheres of expertise, but since chief specifically stated this is how it was in NC, i was particularly looking for a cite for that state's data component.

    again thanks...

    ipse
    Then you will continue to be disappointed. The "standard" for qualification in order to comply with LEOSA's requirement is set by each department - there is no state standard and no federal standard. There is also no compulsion for a department to make its facilities and personnel available for retired cops to complete the qualification requirement. Likewise, there is no compulsion for a department to accept certification that the applicant has met the shooting qualification requirement under the observation of anybody who is not the department's designated trainer/range officer/scorer/examiner. Likewise, if the department's designated trainer/range officer/scorer/examiner is allowed to also work outside the department as a trainer (say for state CCW qualification requirements) there is no compulsion for the department to accept their "certification" as a non-departmental employee.

    LEOSA provides the opportunity. Each department decides if and how they will provide the retired cop with the means of accessing that opportunity. In other words, while a chief is pretty much obliged to accept that his Only Ones are "good to go" there is nothing that makes him have to agree that those skills and abilities remain once the cop retires.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    northern wis
    Posts
    3,199
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Then you will continue to be disappointed. The "standard" for qualification in order to comply with LEOSA's requirement is set by each department - there is no state standard and no federal standard. There is also no compulsion for a department to make its facilities and personnel available for retired cops to complete the qualification requirement. Likewise, there is no compulsion for a department to accept certification that the applicant has met the shooting qualification requirement under the observation of anybody who is not the department's designated trainer/range officer/scorer/examiner. Likewise, if the department's designated trainer/range officer/scorer/examiner is allowed to also work outside the department as a trainer (say for state CCW qualification requirements) there is no compulsion for the department to accept their "certification" as a non-departmental employee.

    LEOSA provides the opportunity. Each department decides if and how they will provide the retired cop with the means of accessing that opportunity. In other words, while a chief is pretty much obliged to accept that his Only Ones are "good to go" there is nothing that makes him have to agree that those skills and abilities remain once the cop retires.

    stay safe.
    HR218 is fairly simple on who can certify a qualification as long as the officer has a valid retirement card and can find an LEO instructor that well qualify him and give him documentation he should be good to go.

    It has been subverted by departments who do not want the liability or are anti carry.

    Until a change in Wis law most departments would not give retirees a retirees a card. Now they have too if they qualify and if their department does not offer a Q course of fire they can go some place else for it.

    My department the first two years of the change would only offer the course at our academy a 400 mile round trip for me and lots of other retirees from my department.

    Needless to say turn out was low now they offer it at every post more retirees take advantage of it.

    Other states do vary a lot.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •