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Thread: Unarmed Man Is Charged With Wounding Bystanders Shot by Police Near Times Square

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    Unarmed Man Is Charged With Wounding Bystanders Shot by Police Near Times Square

    " An unarmed, emotionally disturbed man shot at by the police as he was lurching around traffic near Times Square in September has been charged with assault, on the theory that he was responsible for bullet wounds suffered by two bystanders, according to an indictment unsealed in State Supreme Court in Manhattan on Wednesday. [ ... ] Mariann Wang, a lawyer representing Sahar Khoshakhlagh, ... “It’s an incredibly unfortunate use of prosecutorial discretion to be prosecuting a man who didn’t even injure my client,” she said. “It’s the police who injured my client.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/ny...uare.html?_r=0

    Will legally armed citizens be allowed this mitigation of liability? "I wouldn't have missed if I hadn't fired in self-defense, it's the BG perp's fault!"
    Last edited by Nightmare; 12-05-2013 at 06:49 AM.
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    Just more "population control".

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Not Uncommon

    The bad guy was in cuffs on the ground and cop fell to his death after the fact.

    http://enquirer.com/editions/1998/09...shawnta17.html


    507.040 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE

    (1) A person is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree when he wantonly causes the death of another person, including, but not limited to, situations where the death results from the person's:

    (a) Operation of a motor vehicle...


    82 SW(3d) 832 (Ky 2002), Robertson v Com. Recommended jury instructions for second-degree manslaughter and reckless homicide that were based on causal relationship statute sufficiently stated required mental state of "wanton" or "reckless," even though general statutory definitions were not referenced, given that neither second-degree manslaughter or reckless homicide statute required use of general statutory definitions, and culpable mental states of "wanton" and "reckless," as described in causal relationship statute, were neither inconsistent nor incompatible with general statutory definitions.


    http://statecasefiles.justia.com/doc...-CA-002940.pdf
    Last edited by color of law; 12-05-2013 at 09:27 AM.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    So, the logic implies that I get into a wreck by sliding off the road into a ditch, and i survive the wreck. A cop sees me go off into the ditch and while pulling a u-turn to assist me he gets hit by a big rig and is killed. If I didn't slide off into the ditch the cop would be alive today.....so, I killed the cop.

    Got it.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    So, the logic implies that I get into a wreck by sliding off the road into a ditch, and i survive the wreck. A cop sees me go off into the ditch and while pulling a u-turn to assist me he gets hit by a big rig and is killed. If I didn't slide off into the ditch the cop would be alive today.....so, I killed the cop.

    Got it.
    No. If you read the enquire article second page down it quotes "wantonly engaged in". So with you being in an accident then no not held responsible. If you decided to drag race intentionally and caused said accident and caused said death then you could be held responsible.

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Condensed version:

    "Look what you made me do".

    No personal accountability for the police officer's actions. If you buy into that. The police chose to fire their weapons. They have total responsibility for those bullets. Period. There is one other entity with a similar mental aberration. Child molesters. They'll usually get to assigning responsibility on the victim too. My assessment of this situation is that it is another of a growing trend of exterminating someone too mentally disturbed to immediately and satisfactorily comply with all commands. This mental inability to immediately comply seems to spark a killing frenzy. While it is bizarre to think this is what our police are trained to do to people in a mental health emergency, how much longer can we ignore the collateral damage from these killing frenzies?

    If an independent citizen staffed oversight review board with investigatory powers and prosecutorial powers handled this investigation, do you think the findings would be the same? Keep in mind, this is the same department under Department of Justice oversight for corruption and civil rights abuses. It would appear the court remedies are not working if this is an indication of not only police methods, but the wild spun up justifications for their actions.
    Last edited by Fuller Malarkey; 12-05-2013 at 12:30 PM.
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    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Uh, no. The wantonness could/would be discovered, or not, during a incident investigation. Besides, the good officer leapt before he looked.

    From the op:
    Initially Mr. Broadnax was arrested on misdemeanor charges of menacing, drug possession and resisting arrest. But the Manhattan district attorney’s office persuaded a grand jury to charge Mr. Broadnax with assault, a felony carrying a maximum sentence of 25 years. Specifically, the nine-count indictment unsealed on Wednesday said Mr. Broadnax “recklessly engaged in conduct which created a grave risk of death.”
    All this shows is that the beat cop usually gets it right the first time and top cops get it wrong almost all of the time. Those two cops should be prosecuted for shooting two bystanders.

    The coup de gras:
    Finally, a police sergeant knocked Mr. Broadnax down with a Taser.
    So, lethal force was not needed after all. Unless, of course, NYPD trains their beat cops to distract the perp with gun fire to set up a successful taser employment.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Uh, no. The wantonness could/would be discovered, or not, during a incident investigation. Besides, the good officer leapt before he looked.

    From the op:All this shows is that the beat cop usually gets it right the first time and top cops get it wrong almost all of the time. Those two cops should be prosecuted for shooting two bystanders.

    The coup de gras:So, lethal force was not needed after all. Unless, of course, NYPD trains their beat cops to distract the perp with gun fire to set up a successful taser employment.
    Oc wasn't trying to argue the merits of the case. Honestly didn't even read the whole thing. That's why I wasn't trying to comment or form an opinion on it. Was only responding your post about the accident (key word accident) and it causing a death then you being held responsible for someone responding to said accident. That's why I focused on the part where they clarified the wanton/reckless behavior part.

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    Mariann Wang, a lawyer representing Sahar Khoshakhlagh, one of the women who was wounded, said the district attorney should be pursuing charges against the two officers who fired their weapons in a crowd, not against Mr. Broadnax. “It’s an incredibly unfortunate use of prosecutorial discretion to be prosecuting a man who didn’t even injure my client,” she said. “It’s the police who injured my client.”


    This will be a fun trial. I don't expect the NYC Law Department to settle this one.

    The City gets to put the plaintiff on the stand to ask her why she was rubbernecking a police situation AFTER police had their guns drawn and pointed in her general direction.

    Plaintiff gets to put the officers on the stand to ask them why they fired.

    Gosh, I wonder which way a jury will vote.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Sadly nothing coming out of NY or CA is good news for free people. For that matter, not much of anything coming from LE in the entire country is.... they do their will as they will. When no one is watching the watchmen expect the worst.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Sadly nothing coming out of NY or CA is good news for free people. For that matter, not much of anything coming from LE in the entire country is.... they do their will as they will. When no one is watching the watchmen expect the worst.
    i don't understand how you can suggest that there's something automatically wrong with the NYPD's actions. they were dealing with an EDP in a crowded area. they likely wouldn't have shot the guy if he didn't present some danger to officers/public.

    that they missed their target is of no moment...people miss...it happens. not everybody has the luxury of ignoring EDPs in their midst. If they hadn't fired and the guy directly harmed others, you'd be calling for the officers' badges.

    lots of monday am quarterbacking in here.

    here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzY2T43elDI
    Last edited by CT Barfly; 12-05-2013 at 02:20 PM.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Ok hold the phone guys.... just read the article. He was indicted by a grand jury. He wasn't charged at the scene. He was charged with the drugs and menacing and resisting arrest at the scene. They then brought charges later And the jury approved it. So how do u guys bash the leos on this one? Bash the Citizens for bringing the assault charges against him. Also everyone failed to mention he was reaching in his pocket after he was already causing the disturbance and AFTER they attempted to verbally de escalate the situation and physically "corall" the guy.

    Should they have shot? I don't know I wasnt there. Should you stand in the damn way of police trying to stop someone when their gun is out? ( as mentioned by a previous poster) definitely not.

    Finally I counted 3 maybe 4 shots. Its sounds like they acted as trained enough to stop the threat.

    Personally do I agree with the assault charges? I don't know. Maybe. But again that has NOTHING to do with leos. That was a ADA making that call and bringing it to the jury. So blame the citizens who indicted him and the lawyer who brought the charges.

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    The guberment wants to treat all crimes like accessories to murder crimes (bank robber get-a-way guy like).

    But for the actions of others' activities not involved with the crime.

    If allowed to stand .. expect shoplifters to be convicted for murder.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Exactly go ahead and jay walk. You'll get tried for treason. As long as the grand jury of your peers finds enough pc.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    The guberment wants to treat all crimes like accessories to murder crimes (bank robber get-a-way guy like).

    But for the actions of others' activities not involved with the crime.

    If allowed to stand .. expect shoplifters to be convicted for murder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Exactly go ahead and jay walk. You'll get tried for treason. As long as the grand jury of your peers finds enough pc.

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    That was my point - lost on some.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Ok hold the phone guys.... just read the article. He was indicted by a grand jury. He wasn't charged at the scene. He was charged with the drugs and menacing and resisting arrest at the scene. They then brought charges later And the jury approved it. So how do u guys bash the leos on this one? Bash the Citizens for bringing the assault charges against him. Also everyone failed to mention he was reaching in his pocket after he was already causing the disturbance and AFTER they attempted to verbally de escalate the situation and physically "corall" the guy.

    Should they have shot? I don't know I wasnt there. Should you stand in the damn way of police trying to stop someone when their gun is out? ( as mentioned by a previous poster) definitely not.

    Finally I counted 3 maybe 4 shots. Its sounds like they acted as trained enough to stop the threat.

    Personally do I agree with the assault charges? I don't know. Maybe. But again that has NOTHING to do with leos. That was a ADA making that call and bringing it to the jury. So blame the citizens who indicted him and the lawyer who brought the charges.

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    The two women shot were near by, not reported as "standing in the way." If they were "standing in the way" and the cops shot anyway then there are larger issues to address.

    The bottom line, if you are not sure you will not injure or kill bystanders, as a cop, then you must not shoot. Those two cops shot, two women were injured, prosecute the cops for their negligence/reckless disregard for the safety of innocent bystanders.

    Que the calls for "no crime but write a big fat check."

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CT Barfly View Post
    i don't understand how you can suggest that there's something automatically wrong with the NYPD's actions. they were dealing with an EDP in a crowded area. they likely wouldn't have shot the guy if he didn't present some danger to officers/public.

    that they missed their target is of no moment...people miss...it happens. not everybody has the luxury of ignoring EDPs in their midst. If they hadn't fired and the guy directly harmed others, you'd be calling for the officers' badges.

    lots of monday am quarterbacking in here.

    here's the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzY2T43elDI
    Plenty to indicate this was another incident of shooting for "failure to immediately and satisfactorily comply with all commands to the satisfaction of the officers". Something that is an unrealistic expectation of someone in a diminished capacity. And I have not been made aware of a legal authorization to exterminate those of diminished capacity.

    Further, the investigation into this was conducted by.....wait for it.....the police. At the risk of creating discomfort among the protected class, I boldly question the objectivity of the investigation. I said it before, there are two entities that have the mental aberration of assigning responsibility to the victims. One entity is child molesters. You guess the other.

    A Grand Jury indictment doesn't mean much. There is no attorney representing the accused jumping up yelling "objection!". The smarmey prosecutor lays out his contentions and the jury decides if probable cause exists or not. Keep in mind, one of the shooting victims was using a walker. I hardly think she left the house prepared to take a swan dive onto the tarmac when the predictable police shootout began. She probably froze up a tad in disbelief that the police would open fire at a crowd. NYCPD department guidelines say officers may not fire their weapons unless they believe they or other people are in imminent danger of death or serious injury, or if doing so will “unnecessarily endanger innocent persons.” I doubt this was given much play before the Grand Jury.

    And let's not lose sight of the fact that this was "isolated incident" 87,632. A year prior in the same city, New York City Police shot 9 [NINE!] innocent bystanders in one incident in front of the Empire State Building, bringing the total of innocent bystanders shot by that city's police to 13 for the year 2012.

    Two swats of the hand to clear away the smoke, and I see an attempt to limit liability to the city for the "unfortunate incident" where their commandos shot up a crowd in a killing frenzy by assigning blame anywhere they possibly can. They can't afford to have another abuse of power or assault on the citizenry case as they are under Federal Court control for corruption and civil rights abuses, and any further violations could result in stricter control measures.
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Sounds like these cops need to turn in their badges. This prosecutor would have done well in the USSR about 80 years ago. What's wrong with New Yorker's that they are so mindless?
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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