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Thread: Looking to Buy 1st Handgun, What Do You Recommend?

  1. #1
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    Looking to Buy 1st Handgun, What Do You Recommend?

    I don't need anything super powerful, just something to protect myself with. I would assume some kind of 9mm. I am 27 and haven't shot a handgun since my grandpa took me when I was about 12 or 13. haha So, I'm looking for something reliable, cheap, and accurate to get me comfortable with the weapon and I plan to upgrade later. But not knowing anything about the products, I am seeking advice.

    Why I need it:
    I was put into a very dangerous situation last night that changed my mind about needing to carry. I was the passenger in a car on the interstate and guys riding crotch rockets surrounded the car and attempted to get us to stop or otherwise assault us. The guy at my door was reaching out. In the night, I wasn't able to see was he pointing a gun, trying to break the window, or trying to open the door. Luckily, the driver carried and he had his gun aimed point blank on the rider at my window and when he saw he took off and the others noticed the NC State Highway Patrol tags and sticker (his son-in-law is a NC State Highway Patrolman, so he has support tags and they obviously thought he might be an officer) and they all took off. Luckily, he was armed and they weren't. But what if they were armed? I am in a passenger seat with no defense and no way to hide from the point blank shots. Or worse, what if I was in the car with my wife when this happened?

    And this was the 2nd time I carried a knife into a gun fight. I was also mugged with a 9mm in my face and felony assaulted about 10 years ago by 6 guys claiming to be in the Blood set.

    I've just decided that I must do more to protect myself and my family, and don't trust fate to let me walk away from a gunfight unarmed and unharmed for a 3rd time. I do plan to get my conceal permit, however I do intend to open carry whenever at all possible.

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    I recommend a M1911 in .45 or clone in 9 mm if you must. Simple, reliable, well known, the standard of American semi-automatic pistols.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    what's your definition of "cheap"?

    if 350 dollars or so is "cheap" to you, then the S&W SD9VE may be an option
    http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/83125

    if you're looking at used guns, the Ruger P-85, P94 are options, little 9mms that are inexpensive. same with the S&W 5906 (although the 5906 is rather heavy)

    if you want cheaper then that there's Hi-points that are 199.

    There's a myriad of forgettable 9mm "saturday night specials" of varying levels of quality that will likely blow up on you for less then $150.

    frankly, I would spend the money, if you need a 9mm that's reliable they can be found in the 350 dollar range, I highly recommend the ruger "P" series.


    also if you're willing to get an old used gun, I see old S&W Model 10 revolvers in .38 special all the time at pawnshops and gun shows, if the finish is gone and it's heavily holster-worn you can pick up a 1940s .38 wheel gun for about 250 bucks.....
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    I will definitely be looking at those when I go to the store. Thanks a lot for the replies.

    When I say "cheap", I mean in the $350-450 range. It isn't "cheap" to me, a lot of money to me ... be cheap relative to other prices I have seen. haha

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    A Rock Island M200 is around a little more than 200 bucks. Reliable revolver 38 spl copied after(somewhat) Colt Police Positive. Not fancy or pretty but they already have a reputation of going bang when the trigger is pulled. Reviews have been good, they have a decent trigger, and they are accurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by RealestWhiteBoy View Post
    I will definitely be looking at those when I go to the store. Thanks a lot for the replies.

    When I say "cheap", I mean in the $350-450 range. It isn't "cheap" to me, a lot of money to me ... be cheap relative to other prices I have seen. haha
    You can also get a Charter Arms Bulldog in that range. Again reliable, and goes bang when the trigger is pulled. Both models speed loaders are readily available. RI is 6 shot, CA are 5 shot.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 12-07-2013 at 01:29 PM.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Go to a local range and rent several different models and/or take a friend with you that might have a selection of different handguns. The are advantages, disavantages, and trade-offs with different guns. Find something that fits your hands well.

    With your not having any real experience with handguns, I would definitely recommend some training - both from a safety standpoint and proficiency. Study and get to know the laws. Good luck, let us know how it goes.
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    I would go with either a Glock or M&P in 9mm. Both are great guns, I shoot a Glock better and it has a better trigger, but the M&P is much comfier.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Go to a local range and rent several different models and/or take a friend with you that might have a selection of different handguns. The are advantages, disavantages, and trade-offs with different guns. Find something that fits your hands well.

    With your not having any real experience with handguns, I would definitely recommend some training - both from a safety standpoint and proficiency. Study and get to know the laws. Good luck, let us know how it goes.
    Good advice, I tend to recommend DA revolvers to newbies. Shooting a semi auto involves skills that are not limited to the range. The operator has to have some knowledge of the workings of the gun to keep it running smoothly and reliably. Unless he has a old timer to teach him how to handle potential problems.

    Revolvers just work.
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    I have a number of cop and correction officers in the family, so I'm not at a shortage when it comes to knowledge on caring for/cleaning the gun and keeping it working. I'll also have company when going to purchase/use. Just doing some preliminary research/study while I get the money over the next couple of weeks to make the purchase.

    Thanks again, everyone for all this advice. I really appreciate it!

  10. #10
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    I strongly recommend you buy a Hi-Point chambered in .40cal; stopping power of a .45, with the low ammo price near that of a 9mm. It's a large framed firearm, well balanced, no maintenence required, good accuracy at CQC ranges, low-price, sturdy and extremely durable/reliable. For 160$ on average, it's worth every penny. Life-time free replacement of parts goes with the gun, no matter who owns it, made in the USA [Ohio], pikatiny under-barrel rail, blow-back action, good grip, sturdy safety and trigger, 10+1 for .40SW.

    Don't pay 300$+ for a pistol that you have to clean every time you fire it, or worry about using a specific type/brand of ammo, or spend months and big $$$ recovering it from any LEA that violates your rights! Hi-points are very easy on the wallet. Take it from a Ruger, and Taurus owner, I got more Hi-Point pistols in my house and car than I have teeth... And I have a full set of teeth.
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    You know what, I have never heard of "Hi-Point" before. This is looking like a very likely possibility for us. Looking online, I see them for under $200 with a case and holster included.

    My wife and I are closing on our 1st home this week, so money is an issue. This could be good and reliable option for right-now protection, and can always upgrade if I feel the need later.

  12. #12
    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    I would strongly recommend you spend a bit more and get a better firearm than Hi-Point. At the very least, do much research before considering one. Consider that in this post and the following replies you'll only find one poster who says that Hi-Point firearms are reliable. My experience (briefly recounted later in that thread) is that they can be made reliable but it is a very good thing they have a lifetime warranty. My personal choice is to start with a better made, more reliable firearm. As one person I knew put it "Hi-Point firearms are big and ugly - and those are their good points".
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  13. #13
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    A hi point is a entry level pistol, they do function, and with proper ammunition and fine tuning are reliable. BUT it is not a gun for someone with no firearm experience. The hi point is very touchy to weak loaded ammunition, reviews and tests have shown that they work better and more reliably with high quality(expensive) ammo. If one does not reload, then saving money on a gun will be spent on expensive ammo.

    Hi Point is not alone in this regard, expensive semi autos with higher rated springs also need full power loads to function reliably. When your life is on the line, it is not time to find out your semi auto does not function with the ammo in it. Every type of carry ammo a user may use MUST, for the safety of the carrier, be tested enough to give confidence that the firearm will function when needed.

    Revolvers do not have this problem, they function with full loads as well as light loads. Again it is why I suggest revolvers to newbies.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
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    Bottom line IMO is this:

    As Grapeshot suggested, go to a range and rent several different handguns in several different calibers and yes, test both revolvers and semi-autos.

    Determine which breed, brand, caliber that is most comfortable in your hand and that you are most accurate with. Pick something that you are willing to practice with and be proficient. If you are afraid to pull the trigger on what ever you pick you will not practice with it and won't be proficient.

    Some will recommend a 9mm, .40 cal, or a .45 cal.--- to this I say, I don't care WHAT caliber YOU choose as long as YOU are comfortable with the firearm and caliber YOU have chosen. A lowly .22LR accurately fired by someone who is able to hit his intended target is MUCH more effective than the larger calibers that you can't keep your eyes open as you slam the trigger because you are afraid of the kick or recoil and you won't hit your intended target!

    Any round accurately placed on target has more stopping power than a round that you don't know where it went when you pull the trigger.

    Practice and proficiency!


    All said, for ME, I like the .45 cal in either the Kimber Custom Compac 1911 or the Springfield XD(m).... but this is me and neither one will be on your INEXPENSIVE list of firearms.
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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    "So, I'm looking for something reliable, cheap, and accurate to get me comfortable with the weapon and I plan to upgrade later."

    How much is your life worth? How much are the lives of your family worth? That should tell you something right away. When it comes to a defensive handgun, or any style of gun for that matter, quality and especially reliability are your primary criteria. Fortunately, there are a plethora of handguns out there from which to develop a candidate selection list. And that is what you want to do first.... once you have done some preliminary work. Oh, and take your time... don't just jump in and buy the first thing you think will serve your needs. This could cost you a lot more than you think.

    Begin by learning as much as you can about handguns; revolvers and pistols. If it is your wont to go with a pistol (semi-auto handgun), then just concentrate on those. Learn terminology (you'd be surprised how this will aid you in your search), action types, and very important; learn how to separate the BS you are going to get from facts. You'd be surprised at how little some gun store people really know, not to mention the outlandish things they can spout off. That may seem a bit daunting at first, but as you gain some knowledge and apply some common sense, it will come more quickly than you think.

    Develop a candidate list of potential pistols. I would suggest sticking with the most popular and common defensive calibers at first: the 9mm, the .40S&W, and the .45ACP. Factors to consider for your candidate list are;

    • Size. Subcompact, compact, or full size. Some manufactures mix these up a little in an effort to offer more to the buyer.
    • Weight. When you're carrying a gun around all day, this does become a consideration. While a famous gun writer once said that a handgun should be comforting not comfortable, that really is a personal issue that you have to decide for yourself.
    • Round capacity. You'll never hear anyone tell you who has been in a gun fight that they wished they had less ammunition. Again a personal issue.
    • Clothing. You'll have to decide if your gun should fit your clothing or your clothing should fit your gun.

    There are other considerations such as action type (single (SA), double (DA also erroneously called DA/SA*), and double only (DAO)), single or double stacked, and striker versus hammer fired (action type most always dictates this). See, that thing about learning terminology raises its head already.

    Another thing to consider is grip material. A few manufacturers use rubberized grips on their guns. While this is a benefit in gaining a good purchase on the gun, it can be a problem when concealed under a coat or jacket with a fleece lining as it will "grab" that lining. Could be disastrous when trying to pull that outer garment up enough to free your gun for a draw.

    Once you have a workable candidate list, visit gun stores and especially a major gun show so that you can see your candidates up close and handle them to check their feel and balance. This will help to narrow down your list a bit. You can also ask questions as you are going through this process. Just be careful with the answers you'll get and know what is crap and what is fact.

    Next up, try to visit a range where you can rent guns to shoot. You want to try all of your candidate guns if you can. If not, perhaps you have a friend or family member who has some of the ones on your list.

    Once you have taken your decision and purchased your gun, get quality training. And shoot the thing. Don't just fire off a box of ammunition and then consider it a done deal... that you are ready to go out and face the world armed. At this point, you have just begun. Now comes the serious part, not that what preceded this wasn't serious. It's just that you have to run that gun and run it a lot to gain the confidence, accuracy, and consistency you must have if you are going to some day depend upon it to save your skin. This means continued trips to a range and even formal defensive handgun training. And not just shooting paper. Draw and fire practice (if allowed on the range you visit), strong hand/weak work, reloading (tactical and full), multiple targets, and on and on. If a BG, or BG's, ever assails you, time is not likely to be on your side. So practice, practice, practice. Sure it is going to cost money. But look at it this way. It's cheaper than golf.

    Hope all of this helps. Everyone is different and everyone has their own personal wants, needs, and requirements. Decide which ones are yours and take your time with this. Good luck.


    * That's a personal opinion regarding the DA/SA designation. I prefer the original term of DA.
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 12-08-2013 at 09:24 AM.
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ID:	11018Not sure what you mean by 'super-powerful', how about just powerful?
    Just carry one bullet in your chamber and one in your shirt pocket. Why have a bunch of bullets when one of these babieswill do the same as a bunch of little bullets? BG see this hummer and they're jumping over their crotch rockets like a bunch of spring lambs. Er, just for my FYI, how did these people stop you?
    Also consider, instead a bigger car as Roy Scheider "Jaws" once said:
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    (just a little Sun morning humor. Carry on bro - SouthernBoy gives good info)

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    I highly agree with WalkingWolf. In your situation, I would go with a "revolver". I'm 63yrs old and have been around guns most my life. I have many semi-autos in my collection but rely on my revolvers to not let me down and feel very comfortable when carrying one. Yes, I do carry one of the autos from time to time but have been shooting for many years and know how to clear failure to feeds and failure to ejects. As others have posted, shoot as many styles and makes and go with what you feel the most comfortable with. Even a well placed .22 will take the fight out of someone. Good luck in your search. Merry Christmas to all.

  18. #18
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealestWhiteBoy View Post
    You know what, I have never heard of "Hi-Point" before. This is looking like a very likely possibility for us. Looking online, I see them for under $200 with a case and holster included.

    My wife and I are closing on our 1st home this week, so money is an issue. This could be good and reliable option for right-now protection, and can always upgrade if I feel the need later.
    I'm glad I at the very least got ya to look into something other than the standard throat shoving that the others are so fond of doing.

    Just remember, the only way you can figure out which pistol, or really any firearm in general, is right for you, is to test it out, go to a gun shop with an indoor range, handle the firearm, dry-fire it to test the trigger pull strength, operate the slide, use the safety switch with a thumb/finger and with a full hand to see how it feels, and then fire the weapon in the range, and fire other weapons. Personally, I love my Taurus PT100 .40cal, it's pretty much the Beretta M9 chambered and modeled for .40cal rounds. It has its draw-backs, just like how my Ruger Bearcat revolver has its drawbacks too. Every pistol on the market has its strengths and weaknesses, but all the bible-thumping done on this forum doesn't mean much of anything, and should -NOT- make a difference in what -YOU DECIDE- is best for you.

    I love my Hi-Point, and I'm a fan of, and supporter of the brand, but what works for me, may not work for you. Same with all the glock-worshippers; what works for them, may not work for you. You might go to a gun range, pick up a 1950's russian Makarov, beat up scratched up, dents in the slide, and decide that it feels fantastic in your hand, you feel it has good balance, very little recoil for you, and end up buying it. With all the talk in this thread, what you got to remember is that when you buy a 400$ glock, a 160$ hi-point, a 1200$ Beretta, or a 90$ chiatta made in mexico revolver, you're buying a sidearm whose sole and only job, is to fire a projectile out of the muzzle, at whatever is deemed 'has to die right now'. Everything else is extras. You buy a gun to carry on your hip, or leg, or chest, or back, you expect it to fire when you pull the trigger. For the most part that is what is going to happen when you pull the trigger.

    Glocks, tuaruses, springfields, rugers, smith & wessons, hi-points, chiattas, makarovs, lugers; They all have their own problems, they all have their own strengths, they all have their own price, they all have their own look, they all have their own bad apples and good apples. And what works for Southernboy, won't work for waking wolf, wont work for me, will work for you. The only thing that you need to care about is, when I pull the trigger, will it fire. Generally, yes. But, don't be suckered into the tripe of "Don't buy SoandSo brand! you don't know if it'll fire!" or "This brand never has a failure to feed or a misfire!" and "My brand has a bigger ***** than your brand!". Toss it all out the window, tell us all to **** off, and go try and buy what you wish. Can't afford something shiny? try out the cheaply priced pistol. Have money to burn? try out the shiny ten ton gold plated pistol with a muzzle brake that makes your fist look small.

    And hey, don't be like the others, and judge something that you've only heard of. Go buy a whole bunch of weapons, or rent a whole bunch, or barrow a whole bunch,a nd try them out yourself, in many tests and such. You might find that brand X costs forty dollars and performs better in reliability than Brand C, but Brand C has tighter groupings than Brand E and costs 600$, but Brand E only fires six shots, and never has a failure to feed/fire.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-08-2013 at 02:00 PM. Reason: verbiage
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  19. #19
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    I'm glad I at the very least got ya to look into something other than the standard throat shoving that the others are so fond of doing.

    Just remember, the only way you can figure out which pistol, or really any firearm in general, is right for you, is to test it out, go to a gun shop with an indoor range, handle the firearm, dry-fire it to test the trigger pull strength, operate the slide, use the safety switch with a thumb/finger and with a full hand to see how it feels, and then fire the weapon in the range, and fire other weapons. Personally, I love my Taurus PT100 .40cal, it's pretty much the Beretta M9 chambered and modeled for .40cal rounds. It has its draw-backs, just like how my Ruger Bearcat revolver has its drawbacks too. Every pistol on the market has its strengths and weaknesses, but all the bible-thumping done on this forum doesn't mean much of anything, and should -NOT- make a difference in what -YOU DECIDE- is best for you.

    I love my Hi-Point, and I'm a fan of, and supporter of the brand, but what works for me, may not work for you. Same with all the glock-worshippers; what works for them, may not work for you. You might go to a gun range, pick up a 1950's russian Makarov, beat up scratched up, dents in the slide, and decide that it feels fantastic in your hand, you feel it has good balance, very little recoil for you, and end up buying it. With all the talk in this thread, what you got to remember is that when you buy a 400$ glock, a 160$ hi-point, a 1200$ Beretta, or a 90$ chiatta made in mexico revolver, you're buying a sidearm whose sole and only job, is to fire a projectile out of the muzzle, at whatever is deemed 'has to die right now'. Everything else is extras. You buy a gun to carry on your hip, or leg, or chest, or back, you expect it to fire when you pull the trigger. For the most part that is what is going to happen when you pull the trigger.

    Glocks, tuaruses, springfields, rugers, smith & wessons, hi-points, chiattas, makarovs, lugers; They all have their own problems, they all have their own strengths, they all have their own price, they all have their own look, they all have their own bad apples and good apples. And what works for Southernboy, won't work for waking wolf, wont work for me, will work for you. The only thing that you need to care about is, when I pull the trigger, will it fire. Generally, yes. But, don't be suckered into the tripe of "Don't buy SoandSo brand! you don't know if it'll fire!" or "This brand never has a failure to feed or a misfire!" and "My brand has a bigger ***** than your brand!". Toss it all out the window, tell us all to **** off, and go try and buy what you wish. Can't afford something shiny? try out the cheaply priced pistol. Have money to burn? try out the shiny ten ton gold plated pistol with a muzzle brake that makes your fist look small.

    And hey, don't be like the others, and judge something that you've only heard of. Go buy a whole bunch of weapons, or rent a whole bunch, or barrow a whole bunch,a nd try them out yourself, in many tests and such. You might find that brand X costs forty dollars and performs better in reliability than Brand C, but Brand C has tighter groupings than Brand E and costs 600$, but Brand E only fires six shots, and never has a failure to feed/fire.
    Actually I own a hi point, and love the gun. Also own a JA380 and love that gun also. I don't believe anybody here has tried to sucker the OP or be a gun snob. We have all tried to give a piece of advice that HE ASKED FOR. Nobody has put down Hi Points, most posts have not even pointed to a specific brand. I think you jumped the gun so to speak here.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-08-2013 at 02:01 PM. Reason: Quote verbiage
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  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Get a Ruger, Browning, or Smith & Wesson .22 semi-automatic. This will be easy and cheap to buy/shoot and therefore much easier to GET GOOD WITH IT.

    Being very good with a .22 is far better than merely owning a 9mm that you are somewhat okay with.

    Do not underestimate the value of even a couple hours of instruction. Most things about shooting a pistol well are not intuitive, and a few basic pointers WILL make a huge difference in knowing what to practice and how good you will be.

    If you go with a centerfire, keep in mind that the .40 is actually harder to shoot than the much older, lower-pressure .45.
    Last edited by MAC702; 12-08-2013 at 10:41 AM.
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  21. #21
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Get a Ruger, Browning, or Smith & Wesson .22 semi-automatic. This will be easy and cheap to buy/shoot and therefore much easier to GET GOOD WITH IT.

    Being very good with a .22 is far better than merely owning a 9mm that you are somewhat okay with.

    Do not underestimate the value of even a couple hours of instruction. Most things about shooting a pistol well are not intuitive, and a few basic pointers WILL make a huge difference in knowing what to practice and how good you will be.

    If you go with a centerfire, keep in mind that the .40 is actually harder to shoot than the much older, lower-pressure .45.
    A 22 is a good place to start, I learned to shoot and safety with a lever BB gun. The principles of confidence can be learned with a BB gun, a 22, or a hand cannon. But most people learn better with a smaller caliber. The problem is 22 is not so cheap anymore, or easy to find.

    That is one thing about semi autos there are a lot of very close air soft copies of firearms to increase basic skills with and not cost a arm and a leg. They are not cheap either, I think, not sure, that good quality metal air soft replicas are over $200.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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  22. #22
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    I have and own fire arms from the cheap side to the expensive side. Like tools buying the best you can afford is a good idea.

    You can have your Hi points I'll take the better brands my self.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

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  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    I have and own firearms from the cheap side to the expensive side. Like tools buying the best you can afford is a good idea.

    You can have your Hi points I'll take the better brands my self.
    Well, the best forged steel wrench will be smaller and just as strong as the cheap one made from inferior steel. But if it is big enough to compensate, it will do the job just as well.

    A Hi-Point actually has a great reputation for reliability. My friend in Oregon started with one, and even though he has much nicer guns now, including carrying a Ruger 1911, he still has that indestructible, albeit butt-ugly, Hi-Point in his truck.

    Better sometimes means just nicer. It doesn't always mean more reliable and more effective.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Well, the best forged steel wrench will be smaller and just as strong as the cheap one made from inferior steel. But if it is big enough to compensate, it will do the job just as well.

    A Hi-Point actually has a great reputation for reliability. My friend in Oregon started with one, and even though he has much nicer guns now, including carrying a Ruger 1911, he still has that indestructible, albeit butt-ugly, Hi-Point in his truck.

    Better sometimes means just nicer. It doesn't always mean more reliable and more effective.
    I have found out with the cheaper tools they work most of the time but tend to fail when one really puts them to the test and when you need them the most.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

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  25. #25
    Regular Member SD40VE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    what's your definition of "cheap"?

    if 350 dollars or so is "cheap" to you, then the S&W SD9VE may be an option
    http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/83125

    if you're looking at used guns, the Ruger P-85, P94 are options, little 9mms that are inexpensive. same with the S&W 5906 (although the 5906 is rather heavy)

    if you want cheaper then that there's Hi-points that are 199.

    There's a myriad of forgettable 9mm "saturday night specials" of varying levels of quality that will likely blow up on you for less then $150.

    frankly, I would spend the money, if you need a 9mm that's reliable they can be found in the 350 dollar range, I highly recommend the ruger "P" series.


    also if you're willing to get an old used gun, I see old S&W Model 10 revolvers in .38 special all the time at pawnshops and gun shows, if the finish is gone and it's heavily holster-worn you can pick up a 1940s .38 wheel gun for about 250 bucks.....
    i carry a S&W SD40VE as my EDC. its been super reliable when firing both target and defense rounds.

    the 9mm had a 16 rd mag. it is a hell of a gun for the price of $350 and is built like a glock without the $600 pricetag

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