Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 57

Thread: Milw. Man Arrested Recklessly Endangering Safety/Negligent Handling

  1. #26
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    northern wis
    Posts
    1,351
    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    941.20  Endangering safety by use of dangerous weapon.
    (1) Whoever does any of the following is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor:
    (a) Endangers another's safety by the negligent operation or handling of a dangerous weapon;

    Negligent is only one part of the crime one has to meet all aspects of it to be in violation.



    hand·ling


    /ˈhandl-iNG/


    noun

    noun: handling; plural noun: handlings



    1.



    the act of taking or holding something in the hands



    Thus he was handling his coat with a gun in its pocket

    op·er·a·tion


    /ˌäpəˈrāSHən/


    noun



    1.



    the fact or condition of functioning or being active.

    "the construction and operation of power stations"


    synonyms: functioning, working, running, performance, action More


    "the slide bars ensure smooth operation"





    an active process; a discharge of a function.


    So tell me how he was handling or how was he operating the gun.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

  2. #27
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    3,748
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Is the order to not possess any weapons a permanent order or not to possess until after the "trial"? Can gun rights be revoked for a misdemeanor in WI?
    We won't know until the order is publicised. By revocation, do you mean legally or practically? Practically, I'm not sure that the Aldi's shooter has gotten his gun back. Practically, it took months for Krysta Sutterfield to get hers ordered back.


    LOL, now <CR> whitespace is supposed to be evidence of significance?
    Last edited by Nightmare; 12-10-2013 at 07:19 AM.
    Respect is good, but fear works.

  3. #28
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Clark County, NV-----------------------Mohave County, AZ
    Posts
    4,540
    They'd better be careful what they charge them with. They might be expected to charge the cops with the same thing when they do it.
    Blue & Gold Firearms Training; Clark County, NV
    Certified Concierge Instruction

  4. #29
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    6,813
    I'm sure a prosecutor will manufacture a exemption for a cop who drops his pistol in a Burlington Coat factory. If not, the local cop union will threaten a strike to keep the cop on the force.

  5. #30
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,835
    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    They'd better be careful what they charge them with. They might be expected to charge the cops with the same thing when they do it.
    They did but it was plead down even though there was an injury.


    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/1...rt=newestfirst

  6. #31
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,835
    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Negligent is only one part of the crime one has to meet all aspects of it to be in violation.

    .....


    So tell me how he was handling or how was he operating the gun.
    Good luck with that defense counselor..

  7. #32
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ellsworth Wisconsin
    Posts
    680
    Running away was a mistake. Always holster and secure it when out and about. They are lucky no one was killed. The guy needs to be re trained by a firearms instructor.

  8. #33
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Ellsworth Wisconsin
    Posts
    680
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I'm sure a prosecutor will manufacture a exemption for a cop who drops his pistol in a Burlington Coat factory. If not, the local cop union will threaten a strike to keep the cop on the force.
    What happened to the cop who dropped his gun at the governor's mansion? Or was that some where else?

  9. #34
    Regular Member davidmcbeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    10,449
    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    Good luck with that defense counselor..

    I'm convinced: not guilty
    Do not take any postings to be the opinion of the poster .. poster may be posting opinions of others and not necessarily himself ... carry on

    "Filing a notice of trespass with your local, county, state authorities , to keep all town employees off your land, would cut down on the government from interfering or harassing you, at least put you in a little bit stronger legal position" .. chk you local laws (disclaimer)
    [/I]

  10. #35
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    northern wis
    Posts
    1,351
    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    Good luck with that defense counselor..
    I know that the person charge was a horrible terrible person for not having his gun in a holster and that nothing like this could ever happen to any body on the board. because we all so perfect.

    And if some thing like this did the good law abiding citizens here would just bend over and plea no contest take their punishment like a good citizen.

    Instead of putting up a plausible defense.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

  11. #36
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,835
    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    And if some thing like this did the good law abiding citizens here ....
    We would not run away like a thug. There are consequences for actions. We would likely plea it down and possibly get the charges dismissed, but it would not be on the grounds of what "handling" means....
    Last edited by Interceptor_Knight; 12-10-2013 at 08:01 PM.

  12. #37
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    northern wis
    Posts
    1,351
    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    We would not run away like a thug. There are consequences for actions. We would likely plea it down and possibly get the charges dismissed, but it would not be on the grounds of what "handling" means....
    On what grounds would you plea. If the same thing happen to you. Laws are written certain ways hopefully so one knows what actions well get you arrested. If they are open ended and one doesn't know how ones actions make you in violation then you can be arrested with out knowing how you violated the law.

    Can you cite the law that says you have to hang around after an unintentional discharge.

    Example you can not speed. but no speed was in the law. So no matter what speed you were doing you could be in violation.

    But no you know if the limit is 55 you well not get a citation at 55 or less.

    Can you cite the law that says you have to hang around after an unintentional discharge.

    As the police might over react to this a man with a gun call shot being fired and you might end up on the wrong end of police pointing guns at you. Who could be trigger happy, one could very well get killed for a unintentional discharge. It could very well be smart to leave.

    One would not want to be gun down like the Costco shopper.

    I think the law is very clear you can not handle or operate a dangerous weapon in a reckless manner.

    So if your not handling it or operating it you shouldn't be in violation.

    Under your idea of the law if you were out jogging and for some strange reason because of the jogging movement you holster became unsnapped allowing your firearm to fall out and discharged you could be charged.

    Even you were not operating nor handling it at the time. Things happen not all of them should result in criminal charges.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 12-11-2013 at 07:12 AM.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

  13. #38
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,835
    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Can you cite the law that says you have to hang around after an unintentional discharge.
    He did not just "not hang around", he did not notify the police of the incident of which there was a near certainty caused property damage and may have caused personal injury. You certainly are a proponent of irresponsible behavior, aren't you?


    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Under your idea of the law if you were out jogging and for some strange reason because of the jogging movement you holster became unsnapped allowing your firearm to fall out and discharged you could be charged.
    Yes. You appear to have at least a cursory understanding of the concept.

  14. #39
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    northern wis
    Posts
    1,351
    Excuse me notifying the police is the last thing I would do. That is just inviting bad things to happen to you.

    I am firm believer in do not talk to the police what part of the 5th don't you understand.

    Do you really think the out come would have been different if he hung around could very well have turned out worse.

    Is he responsible for any damage is action caused yes but that's is very likely a civil matter and not a criminal one.

    I very much for charging the right crime or not charging a crime if it does not apply.

    Not oh no a gun was fired a crime must have been committed that a lot here seem to support.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

  15. #40
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    6,813
    His first problem, the perps, is that he thinks a Derringer, is a good SD tool. Second, the Derringer is one of the least safe pistols because it is designed the way it is designed.

    Me, I would have called the cops, on myself, and begged for mercy, on hands and knees if that is what it took. I think that if the cops got a call from the fella who dropped his Derringer while shopping the cops would hopefully understand and plead for leniency on my behalf to the manager of the store. If I offered to pay for the damages, I would hope for a citation, with a stiff fine, a stern talking too (with wagging finger ala Mommy style) by the cops, and be thankful that is all that I received, and felt lucky to get off that easy.

    But, I am a honest fellow and not prone to walk away from my mistakes, especially the honest ones.

  16. #41
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,835
    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Is he responsible for any damage is action caused yes but that's is very likely a civil matter and not a criminal one.
    Then why did he not immediately talk to the store clerks and arrange to pay for damages instead of running away like a common criminal? He hid until he saw the security camera footage. No integrity was exhibited regarding this incident.

  17. #42
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    northern wis
    Posts
    1,351
    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    instead of running away like a common criminal? He hid until he saw the security camera footage. No integrity was exhibited regarding this incident.
    Does not make for a chargeable offense.

    That unlike driving away from a vehicle crash that is spell out in the law as one shall not do.

    So he left the scene ,so he doesn't have integrity tell me what crime those are.

    I am saying the guy was not a jerk or stupid or careless.

    But those factors are not a element of the crime he is charged with.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 12-11-2013 at 12:05 PM.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

  18. #43
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    6,813
    He took off his coat and handed it to the woman. So, did he drop the firearm? Or, is he taking the fall for the woman who was holding the coat with the firearm in a pocket. If he would have been proactive it could have turned out far differently, or not, based on the cops that would have responded to the store.

  19. #44
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    northern wis
    Posts
    1,351
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post

    Me, I would have called the cops, on myself, and begged for mercy, on hands and knees if that is what it took. I think that if the cops got a call from the fella who dropped his Derringer while shopping the cops would hopefully understand and plead for leniency on my behalf to the manager of the store. If I offered to pay for the damages, I would hope for a citation, with a stiff fine, a stern talking too (with wagging finger ala Mommy style) by the cops, and be thankful that is all that I received, and felt lucky to get off that easy.

    But, I am a honest fellow and not prone to walk away from my mistakes, especially the honest ones.
    And then if you still would have been arrested and thrown in jail and your rights to own a gun taken away from you until you could prove that you were innocent. That you were really not handling or operating your had gun that it just fell out of your pocket.

    Your hoping the officer would just understand, what happen and not throw your stupid, forgetful I didn't mean it self in jail. Good luck in the area that this happen in.

    My my I am sure your more then willing to leave your recorder at home and hope every officer that might stop you would be so understanding and forgive full.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

  20. #45
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    popple butte
    Posts
    90
    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Excuse me notifying the police is the last thing I would do. That is just inviting bad things to happen to you.

    I am firm believer in do not talk to the police what part of the 5th don't you understand.

    Do you really think the out come would have been different if he hung around could very well have turned out worse.

    Is he responsible for any damage is action caused yes but that's is very likely a civil matter and not a criminal one.

    I very much for charging the right crime or not charging a crime if it does not apply.

    Not oh no a gun was fired a crime must have been committed that a lot here seem to support.
    If you actually have a Wisconsin certificate to instruct classes on firearm safety and teach the above philosphy the Wisconsin DOJ should take a closer look.

  21. #46
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    6,813
    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    And then if you still would have been arrested and thrown in jail and your rights to own a gun taken away from you until you could prove that you were innocent. That you were really not handling or operating your had gun that it just fell out of your pocket.

    Your hoping the officer would just understand, what happen and not throw your stupid, forgetful I didn't mean it self in jail. Good luck in the area that this happen in.

    My my I am sure your more then willing to leave your recorder at home and hope every officer that might stop you would be so understanding and forgive full.
    You don't like honest folks.....got it.

  22. #47
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,835
    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    But those factors are not a element of the crime he is charged with.
    Correct. He was charged with the most obvious and easy to convict violation. It can be argued that the negligent handling occurred when he placed it in the coat pocket which is not a reasonably secure method of carry. No matter what creative defense you concoct, he is facing an uphill battle if he tries to get off on a technicality based on verbiage.

  23. #48
    Regular Member Plankton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Just north of the Sheeple's Republik of Madistan
    Posts
    402
    Discharging a firearm within the city limits of most municipalities (excepting for self defense in some cases) is against the law. I'm guessing this incident falls into this catagory.
    Liberty or death. We're sorry, there are no other options available at this time..........
    "Safety is the new Liberty, and recklessness is the new Freedom, and anonymous is the new Doug Huffman."

  24. #49
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    northern wis
    Posts
    1,351
    Quote Originally Posted by Plankton View Post
    Discharging a firearm within the city limits of most municipalities (excepting for self defense in some cases) is against the law. I'm guessing this incident falls into this catagory.
    That might have been a more appropriate charge but that is not what he has been charged with.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

  25. #50
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    northern wis
    Posts
    1,351
    OC for ME

    Talking to the police no matter how honest you can be.

    Could very well get you convicted of something you didn't do.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •