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Thread: Calling all gun owning foster/adoptive parents in Nevada

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    Calling all gun owning foster/adoptive parents in Nevada

    I'm looking for fellow firearm owners that currently are or have been foster and/or adoptive parents to speak out at public workshop regarding firearm regulations you must abide by to be a foster/adoptive parent in Nevada.

    The current regulations governing foster/adoptive licenses in Nevada does not prevent firearm ownership, however they do prevent the prevent the use of a firearm for self defense in the home, and place unreasonable requirements on carrying for self defense outside the home.

    NAC 424.600 Weapons and ammunition. (NRS 424.020) Any weapons, such as firearms, air rifles,
    bows, hunting knives or hunting sling shots, shall be unstrung and unloaded at all times when children are in the
    home. They shall be stored in locked containers or rooms out of the reach of children or made inoperable.
    Ammunition and arrows shall be stored in separate locked containers. Weapons shall not be transported in any
    vehicle in which children are riding unless the weapons are made inoperable and inaccessible.
    [Welfare Div., Req. for Foster Care 108.4, 10-7-88, eff. 1-1-89]
    The problem with the code as is, the intent is to keep loaded firearms out of the reach of children (that's good) but like everything in government it's not exactly safe or logical in it's current form (that's bad).

    The regulation as written does not allow you to keep a loaded firearm for home defense even if it's kept in a bedside gun vault. And while the current regulation as written does not prohibit CCW carry, it does required that every time you get in and out of the car you unload your weapon and make it inoperable. Not very safe or logical to be loading/unloading a firearm every time you get in and out of a vehicle.

    Nevada is currently in the process of amending this code for the first time since 1989, and there is a public workshop scheduled for Monday December 16h. This exact NAC regulation is one that will be discussed since they are intending to add an exemption to allow police officers to carry their weapon in the presence of children when on duty.

    http://www.dcfs.state.nv.us/DCFS_GoogleCalendar.htm

    I'm trying to find any Nevada residents that currently are a foster parent, have been one in the past, or considered being one that would attend the public hearing to speak up about modifying this regulation.

    Personally, I'd like to see the regulation written to allow firearms to be locked in a bedside gun vault loaded and add an exception for CCW. (something like firearms must be stored in a locked safe at all time when they are not physically carried on your person)

    Most people I know just sign off and "agree" the the NAC and then they store and carry their weapon how they see fit. (a sort of unofficial don't ask, don't tell policy). However, I won't do that. I'm not willing to risk a child being placed in my home, finally having a stable place to live and then being pulled away because someone decides one day they don't like that I carry. It's not fair to that child.

    The best outcome is to amend this NAC to something that keeps guns out of the reach of children while still allowing for personal defense use. Some minor common sense changes to the regulation can do that.

    The Nevada Firearms Coalition is involved and will be present at the workshop. It's a chance to get on the record about the issue and start a dialogue to affect change.

    Anyone that is interested in attending, please send me a PM with your contact or I can send you mine.

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    With only 2 days left before the April 15th public comment deadline, support to change the regulation that keeps law abiding gun owners from providing a home for foster/adoptive children in need continues to grow.

    Much to our surprise, Channel 8 sent a news crew to cover our story at the public hearing Friday. Click here for video and the article from Channel 8.
    http://www.8newsnow.com/story/252285...oster-families

    On April 8th, Michele Fiore spoke about this issue with Eye on Nevada Politics radio as well. The audio from the radio show can be heard at the following link (coverage starts at the 4:48 mark of the audio file).
    http://audio.vegasallnetradio.com/EO...2014-04-08.mp3

    This is our last chance to make a difference, and tell the Department of Child and Family Services they can no longer deny foster parents the right to protect their home and family.

    I ask that everyone who supports lawful gun ownership, and wants to help these children in need find a loving home make one last show of support by re-sharing this petition with your friends, family, facebook, twitter, etc.

    http://www.change.org/petitions/help...ome-and-family

  3. #3
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    SIgned and FB shared.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member Jeannette's Avatar
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    Petition signed!

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    Regular Member z28power's Avatar
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    Signed petition, thanks for the link and update!

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    Why is it only limited to CCW holders?
    Hoka hey

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    The regulation is a complete violation of state preemption, as is your recommendation for required lockup or a CCW exemption. Period.

    It's crystal clear. Any compromises are illegal.

    I realize they have you by the heartstrings, and a lawsuit doesn't help you with child custody today.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member z28power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    The regulation is a complete violation of state preemption, as is your recommendation for required lockup or a CCW exemption. Period.

    It's crystal clear. Any compromises are illegal.

    I realize they have you by the heartstrings, and a lawsuit doesn't help you with child custody today.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't technically state preemption, as preemption simply doesn't allow county, local, or town ordinances that contradict state laws.

    This is a State law though, so it is allowed, right? They have reserved the right of preemption to themselves, which they are exercising with this statute.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by z28power View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't technically state preemption, as preemption simply doesn't allow county, local, or town ordinances that contradict state laws.

    This is a State law though, so it is allowed, right? They have reserved the right of preemption to themselves, which they are exercising with this statute.
    In some states, you would be correct, but Nevada's preemption is far stronger. It states: "that the legislature reserves to itself the right to regulate the transfer, sale, purchase, possession, ownership, transportation, registration and licensing of firearms and ammunition in Nevada, and that no county, city or town respectively may infringe upon these rights. ..."

    So it not only affects local governments, but also any state agency that is not the elected Legislature. Only a Nevada Revised Statute (a law passed by the Legislature and signed by the Governor) can affect possession of firearms. A state agency (which can make Nevada Administrative Codes) is just as preempted as a city town council.
    Last edited by MAC702; 04-14-2014 at 06:56 PM.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member z28power's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    In some states, you would be correct, but Nevada's preemption is far stronger. It states: "that the legislature reserves to itself the right to regulate the transfer, sale, purchase, possession, ownership, transportation, registration and licensing of firearms and ammunition in Nevada, and that no county, city or town respectively may infringe upon these rights. ..."

    So it not only affects local governments, but also any state agency that is not the elected Legislature. Only a Nevada Revised Statute (a law passed by the Legislature and signed by the Governor) can affect possession of firearms. A state agency (which can make Nevada Administrative Codes) is just as preempted as a city town council.
    I must have skimmed over the part where this was an NAC instead of an NRS - thanks for the clarification.

    Unfortunately they really have somebody that wants to adopt or foster children by the tail, as these people are in a position to deny a parent, even if unlawful to do so, without worry or recourse until somebody has standing to press the issue legally. In this case, it would be a long battle that most people aren't willing to fight It's worth trying to petition them to change the NAC in this manner first if it is easier... isn't it?

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    I was a foster parent in Texas. We had a similar requirement about guns being unloaded and ammo stored in a separate locked safe with separate keys. I was able to get around some of this problem by buying two identical bio-metric safes and programming different fingers as keys. I asked our CPS agent about it and they said that should meet the requirements of the law. So all I had to do was swipe my left and right fingers simultaneously on each safe. One safe had loaded magazines and the other had the gun. This made a dramatic difference in the time needed not only for daily arming for concealed carry, but also should an intruder be trying to break in at night.

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    Regular Member Craftymommy's Avatar
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    I signed this not too long ago. I hope it can get changed. Husband and I both OC and he is waiting on his ccw to come in the mail. We have discussed adopting in the future(third boy in the making right now) if we want more but this would definitely deter us from doing so

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    Interim Legislative Commission to vote on Monday June 23rd.

    In spite of your overwhelming support, the request for a rule change has fallen on mostly deaf ears of the un-elected officials at The Division of Child and Family Services. DCFS continues to insist everyone who is not a member of law enforcement remains defenseless - UNLESS WE ACT NOW!

    On June 23rd, DCFS will present their proposed new regulation to keep foster parents defenseless to the Interim Legislative Commission for approval. This is our last chance to block it, and demand all law abiding citizens (not only members of law enforcement) be allowed to protect their homes and families.

    Please call, e-mail or write the members of the Interim Legislative Commission and politely voice your opposition to the rule changes. Ask the members to vote against the regulation changes in LCB No. R110-13.

    Please forward this Alert to friends and like-minded people.

    If you can, please attend the meeting to peacefully and politely show your opposition to the rule changes.

    Carson City: Legislative Bldg., Rm. 3137
    401 S. Carson St.

    Las Vegas: Grant Sawyer Bldg., Rm. 4401
    555 E. Washington Ave.

    Contact information for Commission members
    http://goo.gl/255edu

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    Quote Originally Posted by h2ojunkie View Post
    In spite of your overwhelming support, the request for a rule change has fallen on mostly deaf ears of the un-elected officials at The Division of Child and Family Services.
    Someone should go to the meeting and ask how many excess foster parents are on the rolls. Obviously they have so many that they're using this as a way to get people to stop becoming foster parents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    Someone should go to the meeting and ask how many excess foster parents are on the rolls. Obviously they have so many that they're using this as a way to get people to stop becoming foster parents.
    it's exactly the opposite. they have a massive shortage of foster parents. but they still seem to believe these kids are better off in a state run group home than with gun owning foster parents.





    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by h2ojunkie View Post
    In spite of your overwhelming support, the request for a rule change has fallen on mostly deaf ears of the un-elected officials at The Division of Child and Family Services. DCFS continues to insist everyone who is not a member of law enforcement remains defenseless - UNLESS WE ACT NOW!
    ...
    If you can, please attend the meeting to peacefully and politely show your opposition to the rule changes.

    Carson City: Legislative Bldg., Rm. 3137
    401 S. Carson St.

    Las Vegas: Grant Sawyer Bldg., Rm. 4401
    555 E. Washington Ave.

    Contact information for Commission members
    http://goo.gl/255edu
    I went, said my two sentences.

    Thanks to the efforts of those who kept the pressure on, the Interim Legislative Commission basically told DFCS to start over again. Settelmeyer suggested they add CCW holder as well as cop to the list of people that could carry in a holster if it is otherwise stored, and then propose a new regulation to the commission. The recommendation isn't as great as telling them to get off the legislature's back and repeal their illegal regulation, but it looks like a step forward will be coming in any case.

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    It is certainly a step forward, even if not a solution.

    Thanks to everyone that spoke out we blocked DCFS from making a bad regulation worse. If not for everyone's involvement this would have quietly passed today and no one would be the wiser.

    We have also gained enough attention that I already have comitment from a legislator that a bill will be presented durning the next legislative session to hopefully fix this once and for all.

    We may not yet have a resolution, but at least we live to fight another day. And that is something to celebrate.

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by h2ojunkie; 06-23-2014 at 10:42 PM.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    This sounds like the typical solution in search of a problem. I think the DV that foster kids face are more varied, like beatings, starvation, neglect. Is there really a bunch of foster families being prevented from gun battles in the home or car? I doubt it.

    And, since two bio safes satisfy the 'rule' and we all know those can be opened by a 10 year old with a big screwdriver or mini-crowbar, what's the point?

    Further the dimwit authoring such a law is so unfamiliar with gun handling that they incorporate a lot of excessive gun handling, and commence to writing a law that you really can't follow. If you're in the car you're breaking the law, if you're stepping in you're breaking it and if you're out you probably run afoul of brandishing rules.

    Sheesh.

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    URGENT GUN RIGHTS ALERT

    from the NEVADA FIREARMS COALITION

    Tuesday, June 24th, 2014

    Nevada Interim Legislative Commission - Update

    Yesterday, the Nevada Interim Legislative Commission heard regulatory changes proposed by the NV Division of Child & Family Services (DCFS) that would have required gun owners and CFP holders to choose between their Second Amendment rights and being foster parents. Thanks to lobbying efforts by the NVFAC and its members leading up to the Commission meeting, DCFS was prepared to withdraw the regulation change in question. Rather than allow the regulations to be withdrawn, which would have left them alive to be quietly voted on again in their current form at a future commission session, State Senator James Settelmeyer (R-Minden) moved to reject them, meaning they would need to be returned in a different form in order to receive legislative consideration. After discussion among the legislators, Sen. Settelmeyer's motion passed unanimously (6 Democrats, 6 Republicans), and had the active support of Assembly Speaker Marilyn Kirkpatrick (D-Las Vegas). The proposed rule changes to which NVFAC objected are now legally dead in their current form.

    This is a win for Nevada's gun owners, and will allow NVFAC the opportunity to work with DCFS in revising the regulations if they are so inclined, and to oppose any regulations which infringe on the gun rights of Silver State residents. Please forward to your gun rights contacts and club memberships.

    For Freedom

    Don Turner, NVFAC


    5575 Simmons Street, Suite 1-176
    North Las Vegas, NV 89031
    www.nvfac.org | info@nvfac.org

  20. #20
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    NAC 424.600 Weapons and ammunition. (NRS 424.020) Any weapons, such as firearms, air rifles,
    bows, hunting knives or hunting sling shots, shall be unstrung and unloaded at all times when children are in the
    home. They shall be stored in locked containers or rooms out of the reach of children or made inoperable.
    Ammunition and arrows shall be stored in separate locked containers. Weapons shall not be transported in any
    vehicle in which children are riding unless the weapons are made inoperable and inaccessible.
    [Welfare Div., Req. for Foster Care 108.4, 10-7-88, eff. 1-1-89]
    Clear infringement....sue the SOBs.

    But, being a foster parent is not a right.

    But, kids have the right to self defense too.

    Sue the SOBs.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    I was a foster kid in the 80's I learned that the State does not fix the problems, they create them (to fabricate their own relevance.) Having a job was discouraged as it would Muss the schedule, if all the other kids ate at 5:30 and you did not get (not home) but to your domicile until 7:00. The other reason being a productive member of society was discouraged, was you may retain too many worldly possessions. I retained my gainful employment despite the flack, and purchased a waterbed... This addition meant that when the pissy ol caseworker came out for my monthly transfer (it keeps you in check) She had to drive a U-Haul (Now who is out of their comfort zone!)

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    My wife and I are just finishing our foster classes, the firearm regulations, while annoying were not at issue as we had sold our guns several months back. We are in a better financial situation now and I am looking to purchase a firearm again. I will have to talk to our case worker to get specifics about what she will accept and not accept.

  23. #23
    Regular Member turborich's Avatar
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    WE have been entertaining the idea of fostering one child however if guns in a locked safe are an issue then we will have to pass. It's a shame because we could possibly offer a child a much better environment to be in.

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    What makes it even worse is that they regulations only disqualify you from fostering if you are honest and admit you have a loaded gun in your safe.

    No one actually inspects the weapon to be sure its empty.

    So if you are a dishonest person that violates the regulations and lie about it, the state wants you as a foster parent. But if you are an honest person, you can be trusted to care for a child.

    How screwed up is that?

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    Could you not just carry anyways?

    How often is someone questioned if the child they are with is theirs or not anyways?

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