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Thread: Unholstered my gun on an off-duty LEO.

  1. #1
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Unholstered my gun on an off-duty LEO.

    This incident happened a few months back but I have been waiting to make sure no legal action came from it before posting. I feel I'm in the clear so I'll share. In October I was changing the oil in my truck. When I went to put the new oil filter back on I discovered that the parts house had given me the wrong filter. Of course my truck has no oil in it at this point so I couldn't drive it. The parts house is about a 15 minute walk so I decided to walk there to get the correct filter. On the walk back home I suddenly heard someone running up on me fast. For whatever reason, in my mind a threat was coming up on me. I quickly left the sidewalk and stepped off into a yard and started to quickly walk backwards while I was unholstering my gun so as to put as much distance between me and whatever threat that I was about to encounter.

    What I saw was a LEO from a neighboring county that was out for his evening jog. This guy lives 4 houses down from me. I know who/what he is due to seeing him come out and returning from work in his uniform, as well as seeing his cruiser parked in his driveway. I never did point my gun at him but rather kept it in the low and ready position. Needless to say his eyes got pretty wide (as did mine) and the only thing he said to me was "sh!t, sorry about that." To which I replied "sh!t, I'm sorry about that, too. You just alarmed me." He continued on with his jogging and I haven't talked to him since.

    This incident bothers me for several reasons. For one, he was able to get up on me pretty quick before I realized it. Of course he was no harm and was just out for a run. But if he had been an attacker that was planning on stabbing me in the back or knocking my brains out with a club I would have had very little time to react (I'm sure this is true of most attacks). I wondered afterwards what if he have drawn his gun on me? I doubt he would have ordered me to drop mine since mine was already in my hand. Would I have dropped mine and gotten on the ground as soon as he reached for his, or would he have shot me before I had a chance to "surrender" to him? Worse yet, what if we didn't know of each other and had gotten into a gun fight with each other over a misunderstanding? It would had been real easy for him to see me draw a gun and think that I was there to attack him, only for him to draw a gun which would lead me to believe that he was there to attack me. I took his "I'm sorry about that" comment as he knew that he had startled me and he knew I meant no harm. And of course I knew of him and what he was really doing so that helped.

    I wonder if I overreacted? Some folks say that if you think a threat is about to happen to go ahead and place your hand on your firearm but not to draw it until you know for sure that your life is in danger. Others say go ahead and get it in the low and ready position to shave off those few precious seconds that may be needed, as well as because a displayed firearm may make potential attackers think twice about going through with the attack. It was just a frighting experience all the way around, but hopefully a learning experience as well.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
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    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    This incident happened a few months back but I have been waiting to make sure no legal action came from it before posting. I feel I'm in the clear so I'll share. In October I was changing the oil in my truck. When I went to put the new oil filter back on I discovered that the parts house had given me the wrong filter. Of course my truck has no oil in it at this point so I couldn't drive it. The parts house is about a 15 minute walk so I decided to walk there to get the correct filter. On the walk back home I suddenly heard someone running up on me fast. For whatever reason, in my mind a threat was coming up on me. I quickly left the sidewalk and stepped off into a yard and started to quickly walk backwards while I was unholstering my gun so as to put as much distance between me and whatever threat that I was about to encounter.

    What I saw was a LEO from a neighboring county that was out for his evening jog. This guy lives 4 houses down from me. I know who/what he is due to seeing him come out and returning from work in his uniform, as well as seeing his cruiser parked in his driveway. I never did point my gun at him but rather kept it in the low and ready position. Needless to say his eyes got pretty wide (as did mine) and the only thing he said to me was "sh!t, sorry about that." To which I replied "sh!t, I'm sorry about that, too. You just alarmed me." He continued on with his jogging and I haven't talked to him since.

    This incident bothers me for several reasons. For one, he was able to get up on me pretty quick before I realized it. Of course he was no harm and was just out for a run. But if he had been an attacker that was planning on stabbing me in the back or knocking my brains out with a club I would have had very little time to react (I'm sure this is true of most attacks). I wondered afterwards what if he have drawn his gun on me? I doubt he would have ordered me to drop mine since mine was already in my hand. Would I have dropped mine and gotten on the ground as soon as he reached for his, or would he have shot me before I had a chance to "surrender" to him? Worse yet, what if we didn't know of each other and had gotten into a gun fight with each other over a misunderstanding? It would had been real easy for him to see me draw a gun and think that I was there to attack him, only for him to draw a gun which would lead me to believe that he was there to attack me. I took his "I'm sorry about that" comment as he knew that he had startled me and he knew I meant no harm. And of course I knew of him and what he was really doing so that helped.

    I wonder if I overreacted? Some folks say that if you think a threat is about to happen to go ahead and place your hand on your firearm but not to draw it until you know for sure that your life is in danger. Others say go ahead and get it in the low and ready position to shave off those few precious seconds that may be needed, as well as because a displayed firearm may make potential attackers think twice about going through with the attack. It was just a frighting experience all the way around, but hopefully a learning experience as well.
    You see there's already an thread with both sides of that debate. I personally say you did the right thing. You perceived a threat from behind. Instead of either getting attacked (what you perceived) or just shooting him you instead gained distance while preparing yourself. As you said it caused the reaction you WANT from a BG. The eyes wide oh s*** reaction. To me sounds you did well. As you said you did not point it at him. To boot he was a cop. Fortunately it was a misunderstanding but can be used as a training tool for yourself.

    As far as the what its with him being armed.. too many what ifs. I don't personally jog with my firearm. But I can say I do chase after guys on a fairly regular basis. So what would happen if I was chasing someone and cane around a corner and you were there with a gun? Depends on both parties. You verbally made him aware that you were not a threat and he did the same. If I came around a corner and saw a gun and you immediately said "s**** sorry you scared me". Then no harm no foul.

    I'm sure others will be on to tell you that it was dumb to that but I agree with you and what you did. Great example of that extra step needed to deescalate a situation.

    Be safe.

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  3. #3
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Hopefully one of our attorney's on board will step up and give a opinion. Personally I think OP you are extremely lucky that you did not get shot, and lucky as well not to end up in jail.

    When I walk I get passed by joggers occasionally, I am aware they are behind me, as I check occasionally, and I simply move out of their way. I walk with dog spray, and the only time I am concerned is when charged by a dog. Even then I do not need to draw, every dog has stopped with a shot of dog spray. I don't normally OC with self defense spray, only when I am on my walks, but it would work just as well on humans, and can legally be carried in the hand.

    Maybe if this is a concern for you OP you could get the strongest pepper spray you can get and carry it in your hand. If you encounter a real threat, it will deploy faster, and give you the edge to draw your firearm need be.

    I cannot condone drawing every time a jogger comes up, it just does not make sense. The thought that someplace like Tobacco Trail of someone pulling a gun on a jogger is scary. There are just dozens of joggers daily, and OC and CC is allowed on the trail. And there is good reason to carry on the trail, as there have been attacks.

    Anytime any individual is going to take a walk there should be a game plan. Without the proper tools, and only a hammer(gun) one could get quickly into trouble. This could have been a rabid dog or fox instead of a jogger, and likely the OP would not have had time to draw and fire without paying attention to surroundings. I suggest in the future walking with a walking stick or pepper spray or both.

    Remember if you take a rush shot and you miss and damage property, or injure another innocent you will be held responsible. Police usually get a pass, so I would discount advice along the lines of what a LEO would do.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    I will say you overreacted..... but I'm an armchair quarterback and don't know every little detail that contributed to your thought process.

    alot of people run at night, I take long walks at night just because I enjoy the solitude. more people then you think are out during nightime hours, and very few of them mean you harm.

    every single jogger after 6pm is not a threat to you, so you need to think about your threat analysis process. imagine this,

    you're going out for a jog, carrying a concealed weapon, you mean no one any harm, you come up behind a walker and you get ready to tell him "passing on left" but suddenly he turns around and pulls a gun, what will you do? I would dive for cover/concealement and draw my own gun if I were the jogger. see how your action can be seen as life threatening aggression to the other party?

    definitely pay more attention, be more alert, and if someone is getting close get out of their way and assess, but pulling the gun too quick is not good, criminal charges should be the least of concern, if you make someone think they're going to die unless they resist you you can quickly find yourself on the recieving end of defensive action by the other party.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I am not sure this is just a product of overreacting, lack of SA played a big part in his dilemma. I know it is a pain, but it makes sense to occasionally look behind you.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post

    I cannot condone drawing every time a jogger comes up,
    Neither can I. I often have joggers pass me without incident. I normally hear them coming from a mile away. I don't know what spooked me this particular day. Maybe the noisy traffic muffled my hearing and I didn't hear him until he was right up on me. It's not uncommon for folks to jog around here. It's just mostly a summer activity. That may have thrown me off as well. For whatever reason in my mind he had just came out of no where for no good reason. Looking back this has probably happened to me a million times before (a fast walker of jogger getting close to me without me knowing.) But like I said, I have no idea why this incident startled me. I agree that I may be lucky for this and lucky for that, and I agree that maybe I could have done things differently. But I like to share my experiences, good or bad so that I may learn from them and hopefully others may learn as well.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    I will say you overreacted..... but I'm an armchair quarterback and don't know every little detail that contributed to your thought process.

    alot of people run at night, I take long walks at night just because I enjoy the solitude. more people then you think are out during nightime hours, and very few of them mean you harm.

    every single jogger after 6pm is not a threat to you, so you need to think about your threat analysis process. imagine this,

    you're going out for a jog, carrying a concealed weapon, you mean no one any harm, you come up behind a walker and you get ready to tell him "passing on left" but suddenly he turns around and pulls a gun, what will you do? I would dive for cover/concealement and draw my own gun if I were the jogger. see how your action can be seen as life threatening aggression to the other party?

    definitely pay more attention, be more alert, and if someone is getting close get out of their way and assess, but pulling the gun too quick is not good, criminal charges should be the least of concern, if you make someone think they're going to die unless they resist you you can quickly find yourself on the recieving end of defensive action by the other party.
    It could be considered overreacting, but all of us have at one point or the other been startled and pulled back a fist out of instinct. I fully understand that a fist is way different than pulling a gun, but you get the point.

    The rest of your post I agree with...I even said the same thing as you did in my OP.

    @WalkingWolf. I feel I had a reasonable amount of SA. I do keep an eye on my surroundings. I had looked behind me a few minutes before this happened. But I believe he came off of a side street that I couldn't see. Plus, as much as we like to think that we always have complete SA, it's impossible to maintain a constant 360 view of your surroundings.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    It could be considered overreacting, but all of us have at one point or the other been startled and pulled back a fist out of instinct. I fully understand that a fist is way different than pulling a gun, but you get the point.

    The rest of your post I agree with...I even said the same thing as you did in my OP.

    @WalkingWolf. I feel I had a reasonable amount of SA. I do keep an eye on my surroundings. I had looked behind me a few minutes before this happened. But I believe he came off of a side street that I couldn't see. Plus, as much as we like to think that we always have complete SA, it's impossible to maintain a constant 360 view of your surroundings.
    Only you know for sure.

    I do believe if you are a consistent walker to have pepper or dog spray for dogs. They are a lot faster than a human coming up on you, and for most people hard to hit with a handgun. There are some major concerns shooting at a animal, if I miss my bullet will strike the roadway. And who knows where it will go from there. I have twice used the spray in the last few months. Both time short bursts stopped the dog in their tracks. I have used it before on duty, but that was years ago and the current spray is probably stronger.

    I have shot dogs when charged, but the incidents were on my own property and I did not have the spray with me. Besides they had already killed livestock. Actually I had two occasions when on duty of refusing to shoot dogs at a supervisors command because it was too dangerous to the community. The end result was keeping the dogs busy until AC could get there and dart them. But as a LAC I do not have that option to wait for animal control.
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    Q for the OP.

    If you were the jogger and carrying and you ran into the same situation where a gun is drawn by a guy who was just walking and also carrying; how would you have reacted?

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    This issue can have a lot of variables' in it.

    Each set of circumstances on each occasion varies greatly.

    I always though pretending to be a jogger is a great way to get enclose for an attack. (I am a runner myself).

    Bicycles are a even faster quite way of coming up on some one. I always announce by presents before I am to close coming up behind some one. More so to make sure they do not jump in front of me causing both of us to get hurt.

    Even then I have startled some people. Lots of people Walks, jog and bike with their heads in the clouds.

    I do most of my running in a very rural area seeing some one else running is rare.

    One day I left the house was in about a half mile of a 4 mile run. Unknown to me daughter decide to come along on her bike she was 15 or so. She came up very quite and when she was about 8 feet away she thought it would be funny to yell at me.

    After she yelled I almost took her off her bike in a very hard manner and was in the process of drawing also, only instant recognition saved her from hitting the ground hard and having me draw on her.

    She looked at me and said Dad I now know why you always told us do not startled some one it could be dangerous. I well not do that again she said.

    So when I am coming up behind some one I always let then know I am there 20 or so feet before I get to them.

    Was drawing warranted by the OP could have been or could not have been I wasn't there.

    Letting some one know that you are armed is a great way to deter and attack is it always the best may be may be not.

    The totally of the circumstances well be your guide. paying better attention well also help one from be caught flat footed.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Another data point that confirms that walking and jogging could be bad for your health. Do not walk or jog, the life you save may be your own.....and that other dude too.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Q for the OP.

    If you were the jogger and carrying and you ran into the same situation where a gun is drawn by a guy who was just walking and also carrying; how would you have reacted?
    I don't know. This particular jogger realized that he scared me, said he was sorry and went on. I'd like to think that I would do the same. If the person that pulled on me is pointing his gun at me, then I would try as fast as possible to explain to him that I mean no harm and that it was foolish of me to not warn him. If I went to pull my gun in this situation I would be shot before I could get anywhere close to pulling mine. But I hope I (as well as he) can "read the scene" and realize that he didn't pull to rob me, but rather pulled because I frightened him and after a few tense moments everything will be ok.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post


    I agree with the others, you overreacted. You must wait until you have your brains bashed out before you draw your weapon. Failing to wait for this is what got George Zimmerman in all that trouble. Its always better to wait until you have been severely beaten and unconscious before taking any action. That way you have a better chance of being found not guilty in court, assuming you survive.
    Advocating illegal activity (2nd degree murder) is against forum rules, post is reported.
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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    I walk our dogs every night, always after dark. 'Safe' residential neighborhood, but in inner city, w/o much car traffic at night, so between that and the dogs have to say never been startled by someone. I have never had the thought to draw my gun when anyone approached on foot - joggers, walkers or bikes, but only crime in the area is typically cars on street burgled in early morning - for cellphones and purses in plain view. If I lived in rougher neighborhood would probably have a different level of concern.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post


    I agree with the others, you overreacted. You must wait until you have your brains bashed out before you draw your weapon. Failing to wait for this is what got George Zimmerman in all that trouble. Its always better to wait until you have been severely beaten and unconscious before taking any action. That way you have a better chance of being found not guilty in court, assuming you survive.
    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Advocating illegal activity (2nd degree murder) is against forum rules, post is reported.
    You both needed to add emoticons to your post, otherwise someone may take you seriously.....seriously
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Advocating illegal activity (2nd degree murder) is against forum rules, post is reported.
    Uh, read his post again, the post he posted and your post that quotes his post, that you posted. He advocates to not draw until it is very close to too late to draw. I won't report your idiotic post, you posting idiocy is the only report that is needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    You both needed to add emoticons to your post, otherwise someone may take you seriously.....seriously
    EMNofSeattle is the only member that is in need of a sarcasim emoticon. I think that everyone else "got it." Millenials and their limited view of the world, and the Engrish language.....what can one do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    EMNofSeattle is the only member that is in need of a sarcasim emoticon. I think that everyone else "got it." Millenials and their limited view of the world, and the Engrish language.....what can one do.
    Newbies, past and present; not-from-around-there; and media might not get it.
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    Regular Member BrianB's Avatar
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    I just want to say kudos to the OP for posting his story. There are a lot of good reasons to hold back posting such a story, not the least of which is fear of being berated and ridiculed by armchair quarterbacks. Happily that has not happened here. I think the feedback everyone has provided has been constructive. I think sharing our stories - even/especially ones where we're not sure whether or not we did the right thing - can be very helpful to others.
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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Advocating illegal activity (2nd degree murder) is against forum rules, post is reported.
    How was having my gun in the low and ready 2nd degree murder? I never pointed it a sole, only the ground. When I turned and saw a man with ear buds in his ears listening to music while he jogged, it went back in my holster. I was already in the mind set to keep my gun lowered until I knew for sure that a threat was upon me. Had I turned around and this man was in mid swing with ball bat or was charging hard at my chest with a knife, then and only then would I have raised my weapon and taken whatever actions necessary to survive. I didn't not just draw and point my weapon at a person and just randomly start shooting because they startled me. My way of thinking is this, if you feel you are in danger, get ready to defend yourself. Once you confirm that you are in real danger, do whatever necessary to go home to your family. If you find out that the danger wasn't real, gives thanks that you were not a victim of violence and were not forced to fight for your life.

    If at 3 am I hear a crashing sound come from my living room, I'm not going to come out of my bedroom unarmed until I know for sure that an intruder has entered my home. I'm going to bring my gun with with me the first time. If I do discover an intruder, I'm already ready to defend myself. If I discover that the dog has knocked over a flower pot and that was the cause of this alarm, then the threat wasn't real. I go back to bed and life is good again.

    Some say my actions were an overreaction. Some say they were not. I feel that it would not be in question that I overreacted had I shot this man dead. But I didn't. I simply prepared myself "just in case." I think that a slight overreaction is better than no reaction at all.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianB View Post
    I just want to say kudos to the OP for posting his story. There are a lot of good reasons to hold back posting such a story, not the least of which is fear of being berated and ridiculed by armchair quarterbacks. Happily that has not happened here. I think the feedback everyone has provided has been constructive. I think sharing our stories - even/especially ones where we're not sure whether or not we did the right thing - can be very helpful to others.
    As I said in an earlier post, I hope to learn from this as well as I hope others learn from this. I expected some criticism, but that's ok. As long as we learn. I like to share my good experiences as well as my questionable ones. I have read similar "should I have done this" threads, and after hundreds and hundreds of criticisms I'll find that 1 comment that makes a world of sense to be and puts it all in prospective.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
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    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Regular Member BrianB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    I agree with the others, you overreacted. You must wait until you have your brains bashed out before you draw your weapon. Failing to wait for this is what got George Zimmerman in all that trouble. Its always better to wait until you have been severely beaten and unconscious before taking any action. That way you have a better chance of being found not guilty in court, assuming you survive.
    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Advocating illegal activity (2nd degree murder) is against forum rules, post is reported.
    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    How was having my gun in the low and ready 2nd degree murder?
    He wasn't directing that at you. The "2nd degree murder" reply was a tongue-in-cheek reply to the previous "[...][y]ou must wait until you have your brains bashed out[...]" post which was also tongue-in-cheek.

    Since many missed the sarcasm, George Zimmerman actually did wait until he was having his head bashed against a concrete sidewalk before he drew his firearm and shot his attacker. Despite so-waiting, he was still charged with 2nd degree murder.
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  23. #23
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianB View Post
    He wasn't directing that at you. The "2nd degree murder" reply was a tongue-in-cheek reply to the previous "[...][y]ou must wait until you have your brains bashed out[...]" post which was also tongue-in-cheek.

    Since many missed the sarcasm, George Zimmerman actually did wait until he was having his head bashed against a concrete sidewalk before he drew his firearm and shot his attacker. Despite so-waiting, he was still charged with 2nd degree murder.
    Oh. After re-reading I see that now. My apologies.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  24. #24
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    If everything happened exactly like you say then I would say you were lucky things ended up like they did. As you were already off of the sidewalk and facing towards the threat, while putting distance between the individual you believed to be a threat, it is MY OPINION that you should not have drawn your firearm. WHAT if it had been a child running and playing instead of an adult jogging? I would be willing to bet you would have ended up in the county jail with a possible Wanton Endangerment charge, or at the very least a Menacing charge had that been the case.

    Unless you KNOW you are facing a threat, then it is MY OPINION that you should not draw your firearm. The firearm should only be drawn if you have identified a threat that is acting in such a way that warrants lethal force. You could have obtained a firing grip and left the gun in its holster until you were justified in drawing. If you were backing up and putting distance between you and the individual coming towards you then you would have had time to draw before they were on you. Also, keep in mind that most encounters where violence is threatened will be physical encounters, where fists will be needed and not firearms.

    What is most important here, I believe, is your situational awareness which allowed this to happen. You need to be vigilant at all times when you are out of your castle. You should always scan your surroundings and you should always know who and what is around you at all times. Had you been scanning and staying cognizant of your surroundings this would have been a non-issue.

    This is my opinion on the situation and of course I was not there, so therefore I can not say anything for certain. But at the very least we need to keep our firearm in its holster until we know we are justified in removing it. Again, thank goodness it was an adult and not a child that you drew your firearm on.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

  25. #25
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The LEO does not appear, based on the absence of any repercussions at this point, to be too concerned about this event. He does live four housed down from the OP. He likely sees the OP relatively frequently and also likely knows him to be a OCer. If the LEO is not too concerned about the OP's actions, I am not too concerned. The OP did not shoot anyone, the OP looked first and ID'd his "target."

    Would I have drawn, don't know.

    None of us are 100% aware of our surroundings 100% of the time. We all "tune out" at some point for 'X' amount of time and focus things of immediate import that is not related to guarding against a threat.

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