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Thread: Obamacare could force THOUSANDS of volunteer fire departments to close

  1. #1
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Obamacare could force THOUSANDS of volunteer fire departments to close

    The Affordable Care Act forces companies with more than 50 workers to buy them all health insurance or pay hefty fines
    The IRS says volunteer firefighters are 'employees,' even though the Department of Labor says they're 'volunteers'
    Out of more than 1 million fire departments in the U.S., 87 per cent are staffed entirely or mostly by life-saving volunteers
    Members of Congress are weighing in, but the Obama administration hasn't taken any action yet to carve out a fire-fighting exception

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...partments.html
    Another victim of Obamacare.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    At what point the will number of carved out exemptions surpass those that must contribute?

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    If they are a separate corporate entity, I doubt those would be affected (like in the midwest, most fire districts are distinct corporations~not part of a town) .... but others who love big gov't and are part of a town may be screwed.
    Or they can cut off and become separated.
    Due to 50 employee rule.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    They will be forced to join union departments or close and the tax payers will have more stolen from them for it all.

    70% of the countries fire departments are voluntary.

    It's truly maddening.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    The free market will correct the problem, if most fire departments shutter, home owners and property insurance rates for people in affected will skyrocket and become so expensive that they will approve a tax levy that will be cheaper then increased insurance to pay for health benefits for the volunteers. no need to pass more laws or do anything.......
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 12-10-2013 at 09:55 PM.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    In some states, a new tax is a new law. A VFD being absorbed into a municipal/county FD will increase the cost to tax payers, thus the new tax. The only beneficiary will be fire fighter unions. That is certainly not a free market solution. Federal interference, yet again, wreaks havoc upon the citizenry.

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    There are arguably no volunteer FD due to compliance with FedGov regulations.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  8. #8
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    The free market will correct the problem, if most fire departments shutter, home owners and property insurance rates for people in affected will skyrocket and become so expensive that they will approve a tax levy that will be cheaper then increased insurance to pay for health benefits for the volunteers. no need to pass more laws or do anything.......

    Uh....that's not a "free market"....
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Speaking from experiance, as someone who has worked as a Vollie EMT in several vollie EMS/FF stations...

    So, Obamacare forces firestations and cities/counties to give health insurance to follie EMTs/FFs... SO THE F**K WHAT?! I'm not a fan of obamacare, but this is a good thing, even if you greedy SOBs don't know it. The majority of Firefighters and EMTs who do get paid, are paid minimum wage, and in places like Kentucky, who follow the federal minimum wage level of 7.25$/hr hour, they have to work double shifts, or sometimes work more than one station, just to afford to feed themselves and their families, and if they have to go to the hospital for a flu shot or something, then they're just plain Sh!t out of luck. Nevermind what vollies have to go through. When I worked vollie EMS, I put in upwards of 40hrs a week at the station, while working at a paid private EMS provider for 8 bucks an hour for 30-40hrs a week. Unlike police, EMTs and Firefighters don't normally have unions, or free reign to a city/county's bank account, and I know A LOT of Follies, and paid, FF/EMTs who are well below the poverty line, and often will try to use their wits and knowledge to heal themselves and families, because a trip to the ER would darn near bankrupt them.

    So before you heartless b*stards go whining and b!tching about how obamacare is going to force counties and cities to buy health insurance for their paid and unpaid staff, maybe you should spend a few years in a small town EMS station working 50+ friggen hours a week for a weekly paycheck that, in a month, barely gives you maybe twenty bucks of extra money after you pay electric, rent, food, phone, and gas to go back and forth from work.

    But no! that'd be below you. You sit in this thread and other threads, and b!tch, and moan, and complain about how evil and how bad and how unconstitutional, and how horrible it is that Obamacare will make employers pay for, or help pay for, insurance for their employees. Have ANY of you ever even worked in a h#llhole enviroment for next to nothing for 8, 10, 12, or more hours a day?! I seriously doubt it, because if any of you did, you wouldn't be filled with enough hot air and things you know nothing about, that you could fill a friggen zepplin fleet! Get off your darn high horse and try thinking about what it's like to be poor, or below the poverty line, or working for a factory that makes tens of millions of dollars a year from one plant, but only pays its workers bare minimum wage, and makes them work in hellish conditions for 10+ hours a day! AND NO! 99% of the time, there are no better jobs that they can just up and quit and go work for, because unlike in your republican fantasy pipedreams, companies and corporations are not good organizational bodies that want the best for its workers, and care about them, and if the government didn't have pesky labour laws the corporations would pay its employees ten times what they do now.

    Jesus christ, everytime I see that darn tiresome propaganda about how evil and horrible obamacare is, it makes me want to violently back-hand the person spouting off the same GOP-brainwashed B.S. And take away all their money and all their pretty items and make them live life as a dirt poor american for a few years.

    This is why our country is going to hell in a hand basket, because ignorant white collar republicans who hate the idea of paying a coupel hundred bucks a year in taxes so some poor guy breaking his back in a ditch line to feed his family can afford to have a surgery to fix his hip, but have no friggen problem with forking over much of their income to the government so we can have a military that costs more per year than all of our rivals and enemies and allie's military budgets cost in ten years!

    And the ignorant Democrats that care more about fighting everything the republicans say and do, instead of doing what Bobby and John tried to do and help the poor like Democrats are supposed to do.

    We need a friggen dictatorship. The United States needs to be taken over by a communist, or nazi-fied dictatorship, and impose absolute martial law, and start killing off people like stalin and hitler did. Because ONLY THEN will the dumbarse republicans and ignorant Democrats drop their pretentious BS and actually think "Hey, there are tens of millions of people who go hungry every night because they cannot afford an education with which to get a better job, and there are tens of millions of people who cannot afford health insurance, maybe if we taxed some of these companies making more money in a month than all of america's middle class makes in a year, then maybe these people can live past the age of 60 years!
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  10. #10
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Are you going to go collect the funds yourself?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  11. #11
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    There are arguably no volunteer FD due to compliance with FedGov regulations.
    I would ask you to ask a volunteer firefighter to comment on that comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Speaking from experiance, as someone who has worked as a Vollie EMT in several vollie EMS/FF stations... <snip>
    Your experience is limited and you ignorance is unlimited. Not all VFD are created equal. There are rural VFDs in a my home county, in South Carolina, that have equipment that sits in a tin shed waiting for a VFF to show up first, then deliver that equipment to the incident. My VFFs have jobs beyond their love of the "hobby" of firefighting. I too did that for a while. My little shed had one truck and no bathroom or "office", just lockers and the truck. We went to the C store next door to grab a bite to eat if we were hungry after a call and to use the loo. Hell, we even fueled the truck there and submitted a receipt for the fuel. We did finally get a county card, like the SD had to charge the fuel or bill it to the SD if the "card reader" was not working. Fortunately the county always paid the bill and within a few days.

    In keeping with the tone and tenor of your ridiculous post: You don't know jack about what the consequence of Obamacare will be to every VFD in this country.....get over your self.

  12. #12
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Uh....that's not a "free market"....
    It will be more so then fixing a bad law for every wrinkle. Either ACA is repealed in full or Americans deserve it in full as written
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  13. #13
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    It will be more so then fixing a bad law for every wrinkle. Either ACA is repealed in full or Americans deserve it in full as written
    Two wrongs don't make a right. Fixing a bad law has nothing to do with a free market and neither did your previous post.

    Quit blaming the victims for the acts of the aggressors. Nobody deserves to be violently coerced into the demands of government.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I would ask you to ask a volunteer firefighter to comment on that comment.

    Your experience is limited and you ignorance is unlimited. Not all VFD are created equal. There are rural VFDs in a my home county, in South Carolina, that have equipment that sits in a tin shed waiting for a VFF to show up first, then deliver that equipment to the incident. My VFFs have jobs beyond their love of the "hobby" of firefighting. I too did that for a while. My little shed had one truck and no bathroom or "office", just lockers and the truck. We went to the C store next door to grab a bite to eat if we were hungry after a call and to use the loo. Hell, we even fueled the truck there and submitted a receipt for the fuel. We did finally get a county card, like the SD had to charge the fuel or bill it to the SD if the "card reader" was not working. Fortunately the county always paid the bill and within a few days.

    In keeping with the tone and tenor of your ridiculous post: You don't know jack about what the consequence of Obamacare will be to every VFD in this country.....get over your self.
    And you don't know diddlysquat about anything that you have written at all in your recent comment, or any any post in this entire thread, on the basis that you "did that for a while", and you're still b!tching and whining about the supposed consequence of Obamacare.

    Oh, your 'rural' county VFD got the city/county to pay for its fuel expenses? And you didn't throw a b!tch fit about it? Don't you know its unconstitutional, and evil for Vollies to force the county to pay for the fuel expenses of the VFD because its manned voluntarily?! I'm suprised you didn't go start a protest about how those darned evil Libtards are squandering government money to pay for a free service out of everyone tax dollars!

    ESAD OC for Me, ESAD.
    Last edited by DrakeZ07; 12-11-2013 at 10:04 AM. Reason: Screw spelling and grammar, that's for commies and liberals!
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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Are you going to go collect the funds yourself?
    At this point in my life, and with how fed up I am in regards to the dumbfrickery of my fellow gun owners, I could care the frig less. Gimme a shiny badge and I'll do all the collecting that the highest bidder wants me to do.

    Ya know, you all on here wonder why the country is so socialist, and why, despite your outcries of libertarianism, and conservatism, the government and the populace continue electing socialist politicians. One of these days, you're all gonna stop, and realize, that your blissful ignorance of being in your historic pipedream has blinded you to how the real world works, and that'll be the day when you're asked "Cake or death?". Except, it won't be cake, it'll be conform to the real friggen world, or die out. I look forward to that day, maybe I'll get to live to see people like bill gates stripped of their wealth, and forced to live off social security, and have to decide whether to buy that extra can of soup, or put the money towards paying off your medical bills.
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
    Trained SKYWARN spotter, and veteran Storm Chaser.
    =^.^= ~<3~ =^.^=
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  16. #16
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Two wrongs don't make a right. Fixing a bad law has nothing to do with a free market and neither did your previous post.

    Quit blaming the victims for the acts of the aggressors. Nobody deserves to be violently coerced into the demands of government.
    Everyone is not a helpless victim of society. People choose to allow themselves to be governed, the majority of people chose to elect representatives and a president who said they would enact this very type of law. They deserve exactly what they were promised. Freedom of contract and all. No one forced anyone to vote for the types of people who enacted ACA. People who wanted to be "coerced" as you put it certainly deserve it. You can't protect people from themselves, eventually the majority gets what they want. Now let them enjoy it
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    At what point the will number of carved out exemptions surpass those that must contribute?
    I have wondered this myself. More and more are getting exemptions and taxpayers are footing the bill.

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    The free market will correct the problem, ..............
    How is that working out in the heathcare area?



    We need a friggen dictatorship. The United States needs to be taken over by a communist, or nazi-fied dictatorship, and impose absolute martial law, and start killing off people like stalin and hitler did. Because ONLY THEN will the dumbarse republicans and ignorant Democrats drop their pretentious BS and actually think "Hey, there are tens of millions of people who go hungry every night because they cannot afford an education with which to get a better job, and there are tens of millions of people who cannot afford health insurance, maybe if we taxed some of these companies making more money in a month than all of america's middle class makes in a year, then maybe these people can live past the age of 60 years!


    I am assuming this is a poor attempt at sarcasm.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    And you don't know diddlysquat about anything that you have written at all in your recent comment, or any any post in this entire thread, on the basis that you "did that for a while", and you're still b!tching and whining about the supposed consequence of Obamacare.

    Oh, your 'rural' county VFD got the city/county to pay for its fuel expenses? And you didn't throw a b!tch fit about it? Don't you know its unconstitutional, and evil for Vollies to force the county to pay for the fuel expenses of the VFD because its manned voluntarily?! I'm suprised you didn't go start a protest about how those darned evil Libtards are squandering government money to pay for a free service out of everyone tax dollars!

    ESAD OC for Me, ESAD.
    Overly emotional liberals.

    Whose constitution. We forced no one. The county council approved the relationship. The impact on my ex-VFD.....truck, is not known to me. But, the threat that Obamacare poses to VFDs is documented.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I would ask you to ask a volunteer firefighter to comment on that comment.

    Your experience is limited and you ignorance is unlimited. Not all VFD are created equal. There are rural VFDs in a my home county, in South Carolina, that have equipment that sits in a tin shed waiting for a VFF to show up first, then deliver that equipment to the incident.
    My first supervisor, not even foreman, when I was an apprentice boy, used to come in in the morning announcing, "Well, we saved another chimney last night." COMMENTS EDITED BY MODERATOR: No naming non-public people without their clear permission
    Last edited by John Pierce; 12-12-2013 at 09:10 AM.
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  20. #20
    Regular Member Brace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    So before you heartless b*stards go whining and b!tching about how obamacare is going to force counties and cities to buy health insurance for their paid and unpaid staff, maybe you should spend a few years in a small town EMS station working 50+ friggen hours a week for a weekly paycheck that, in a month, barely gives you maybe twenty bucks of extra money after you pay electric, rent, food, phone, and gas to go back and forth from work.
    That's only the vulgar half of what's being said. The law of unintended consequences is still at play here. Regardless of the moral grandstanding people will likely still be hurt by this, including those you're defending. Perhaps not so melodramatically as "every volunteer fire station gets closed", maybe more like 30% of the workforce gets laid off and the remainder have to cover the difference in manpower, but in exchange get health insurance.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Jesus christ, everytime I see that darn tiresome propaganda about how evil and horrible obamacare is, it makes me want to violently back-hand the person spouting off the same GOP-brainwashed B.S. And take away all their money and all their pretty items and make them live life as a dirt poor american for a few years.
    You should ignore the moral arguments and focus on the factual ones. Mainstream conservative press is pretty much completely dissociated from facts, as is mainstream every kind of press. Maybe give up on the news and just read books.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    This is why our country is going to hell in a hand basket, because ignorant white collar republicans who hate the idea of paying a coupel hundred bucks a year in taxes so some poor guy breaking his back in a ditch line to feed his family can afford to have a surgery to fix his hip, but have no friggen problem with forking over much of their income to the government so we can have a military that costs more per year than all of our rivals and enemies and allie's military budgets cost in ten years!
    Most of the military is a glorified welfare program at this point because it's more socially palatable than actual welfare. Maybe there's something cathartic about knowing those parasites you hate so much might end up paying for their obnoxious desire to live with their life. Anyway, the budget can only support so much. Even if allowing the state to claim literally every dollar made over $100,000 each year there's still only a finite number of problems that can be solved with the resulting tax revenue. Poverty is bad, but it can't be much better to use the state monopoly on force past a certain point because someone is always left out in the cold, and in the meantime there are negative effects from taxation, which get much worse after a point. I grant that we're far away from that point, but the knowledge should temper your absolutism.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    We need a friggen dictatorship. The United States needs to be taken over by a communist, or nazi-fied dictatorship, and impose absolute martial law, and start killing off people like stalin and hitler did. Because ONLY THEN will the dumbarse republicans and ignorant Democrats drop their pretentious BS and actually think "Hey, there are tens of millions of people who go hungry every night because they cannot afford an education with which to get a better job, and there are tens of millions of people who cannot afford health insurance, maybe if we taxed some of these companies making more money in a month than all of america's middle class makes in a year, then maybe these people can live past the age of 60 years!
    The dictatorship thing didn't work out so well for Germany, Russia, or their poor. In general, murder-based social engineering programs suffer from a bad track record, limited oversight, low transparency, lack of clearly defined goals or deadlines, problematic performance standards which encourage moral hazard, public accountability issues, corruption, bad PR, partisanship, severe lack of assistance from academic and professional dialog, and extreme cost. I recommend against them.
    Last edited by Brace; 12-11-2013 at 08:19 PM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    At this point in my life, and with how fed up I am in regards to the dumbfrickery of my fellow gun owners, I could care the frig less. Gimme a shiny badge and I'll do all the collecting that the highest bidder wants me to do.

    Ya know, you all on here wonder why the country is so socialist, and why, despite your outcries of libertarianism, and conservatism, the government and the populace continue electing socialist politicians. One of these days, you're all gonna stop, and realize, that your blissful ignorance of being in your historic pipedream has blinded you to how the real world works, and that'll be the day when you're asked "Cake or death?". Except, it won't be cake, it'll be conform to the real friggen world, or die out. I look forward to that day, maybe I'll get to live to see people like bill gates stripped of their wealth, and forced to live off social security, and have to decide whether to buy that extra can of soup, or put the money towards paying off your medical bills.
    Well sure the government will always need the shooters at the ditch.

    Thanks for clarifying you have no problem joining up and being a member of a government peon that forces others to comply by violence.

    Why wait for the state if it's so right?

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Everyone is not a helpless victim of society. People choose to allow themselves to be governed, the majority of people chose to elect representatives and a president who said they would enact this very type of law. They deserve exactly what they were promised. Freedom of contract and all. No one forced anyone to vote for the types of people who enacted ACA. People who wanted to be "coerced" as you put it certainly deserve it. You can't protect people from themselves, eventually the majority gets what they want. Now let them enjoy it
    No one is a helpless victim of society.

    Utter nonsense. I didn't vote for anyone that would infringe upon my rights I never consented. I never vote for the "lesser of two evils" as to give the illusion of my consent by losing.

    So you don't believe minorities should have rights?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  22. #22
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    At this point in my life, and with how fed up I am in regards to the dumbfrickery of my fellow gun owners, I could care the frig less. Gimme a shiny badge and I'll do all the collecting that the highest bidder wants me to do.
    Good to know which side you're on. The sad part is you're so willing to be the violent, tyrannical oppressor, which is even more surprising consider how you identify. Now, I say that as someone that comes from Latino heritage (and knows what it's like to be discriminated against) and has a number of openly and as yet "in-the-closet" gay friends, so don't even try to spin that as an anti-gay remark.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Ya know, you all on here wonder why the country is so socialist, and why, despite your outcries of libertarianism, and conservatism, the government and the populace continue electing socialist politicians. One of these days, you're all gonna stop, and realize, that your blissful ignorance of being in your historic pipedream has blinded you to how the real world works, and that'll be the day when you're asked "Cake or death?". Except, it won't be cake, it'll be conform to the real friggen world, or die out. I look forward to that day, maybe I'll get to live to see people like bill gates stripped of their wealth, and forced to live off social security, and have to decide whether to buy that extra can of soup, or put the money towards paying off your medical bills.
    From a communist-turned-totalitarian-turned-freedom lover, maybe the problem is people feeling they deserve to have the world handed to them on a silver platter. What used to be a push for an equal chance at life has become a desire to have oneself hoisted up with minimal effort but at the expense of the hard-working people. Makes you think about several things:
    If someone works hard, works long hours, and puts in the effort to start up a company or get a 4.0 GPA, why should they be punished for their achievement and have their wealth or GPA stripped away simply because someone else wasn't able to achieve the same? Granted, some people do start at a disadvantage, but claiming to be the eternal victim because of where, how, or in what circumstances someone grew up in is just despicable.
    In my case, it was a real eye-opener when I realized I could work hard to move forward in life, and not conform to the expected "I'm Latino and you should give me free stuff because of what your ancestors did to my people." The most I do on that front is making sure history is not forgotten (but I do that not just for my heritage, but other histories as well). I work for what (little) I have. Do I wish I could buy my own private island? Yes. Do I begrudge Bill Gates for being able to do so? No, because he earned his wealth.

    Now, if we were talking about members of Congress that somehow became millionaires while in office, I could agree with stripping them of that wealth. Want to know how that would take place? Court with charges for embezzlement, insider trading, abuse of power, etc.

    As for living in "blissful ignorance," have you ever considered WHY Bill Gates got rich while people that expect handouts stay poor? Hint: has to do with hard work, perseverance, and the (semi-)free market.


    *EDIT*
    I should give you the benefit of the doubt and hope your post was actually just a cut and paste from someone else that you just forgot to put the quote marks around.
    With so few freedom-loving individuals openly embracing Liberty, I think it would be unwise for me to push away someone who may be simply speaking from frustration rather than their true ideology.
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 12-11-2013 at 11:20 PM. Reason: Benefit of the doubt
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

  23. #23
    Regular Member Brace's Avatar
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    The most important thing is that Bill Gates being wealthy doesn't cause poverty. He's a pretty well known philanthropist anyway so I'm not sure he even makes a reasonable target. As for the minority-as-totalitarian thing, even though it's not solicited I feel like I have to offer my own perspective; it's the power fetishism of the weak. When people are angry and don't have a good outlet for it they find bad outlets for it. See: most rap music. Alternatively, the Marquis de Sade if you want a historical example. In this case it seems mostly like an outburst, I doubt Drake really meant any of that, otherwise why would he even be on a website promoting rights in the first place? Not that those are acceptable statements to make, but I doubt they were made genuinely. There are some really far gone homosexuals though. Like, the kind that worship Ernst Rohm and keep a swastika on their wall, far gone. I guess in the context of modern america, abusive Christians can seem like the bigger threat than long-dead fascists, especially when you long for some sort of control and can rationalize distant atrocities with fanciful "what-ifs".

  24. #24
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brace View Post
    The most important thing is that Bill Gates being wealthy doesn't cause poverty. He's a pretty well known philanthropist anyway so I'm not sure he even makes a reasonable target. As for the minority-as-totalitarian thing, even though it's not solicited I feel like I have to offer my own perspective; it's the power fetishism of the weak. When people are angry and don't have a good outlet for it they find bad outlets for it. See: most rap music. Alternatively, the Marquis de Sade if you want a historical example. In this case it seems mostly like an outburst, I doubt Drake really meant any of that, otherwise why would he even be on a website promoting rights in the first place? Not that those are acceptable statements to make, but I doubt they were made genuinely. There are some really far gone homosexuals though. Like, the kind that worship Ernst Rohm and keep a swastika on their wall, far gone. I guess in the context of modern america, abusive Christians can seem like the bigger threat than long-dead fascists, especially when you long for some sort of control and can rationalize distant atrocities with fanciful "what-ifs".
    True. I should have made that clear in my post. If he earned it honestly, and his methods aren't what is hurting people, it would be like blaming the neighbor in the next county for your house being foreclosed on.

    A similar argument like this (stealing everything the wealthy own to give to the poor) took place in another thread where Berretta92FS lady claimed that having a right to live gave one the right to steal food to do so.

    I guess I should give him the benefit of the doubt, but if that's what he thinks in his subconscious.....well, let's just hope he wasn't thinking or that it was written by someone else.

    As to the power fetishism, you just reminded me of a quote I vaguely remember:
    It is said that power corrupts. It may be more accurate to say that the corruptible are attracted to power, since wise men have better things to seek than power.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

  25. #25
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    My first supervisor, not even foreman, when I was an apprentice boy, used to come in in the morning announcing, "Well, we saved another chimney last night." Harold Q. Felder of the Ponderosa Pig ranch in Round-O, SC.
    Yepper, tray of ice-cubes. And, a little advice, don't burn pine in your fireplace.....nitwits. That was up around Black Mingo Swamp.

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