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Thread: .38 vs .380

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    .38 vs .380

    I am looking to buy my wife her first handgun to carry and use, but not sure what would be best out of those two types. Could someone please tell e what you would use between the two and what you think the pros and cons are.

    I am looking at those because she has never really handled firearms much in her youth. She shoots mine with little problem but I carry a Nagant at the moment.

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    Well those 2 types are generally bound by the basic type of guns used:

    38 ... revolver

    380 semi-auto pistol

    As far as operation and maintenance , the revolver is generally better suited to a non-mechanically inclined person

    But the pistols are very popular with both male and females

    Its a personal preference choice ... I would choose the 380 myself for a female under the age of 40 if its her first gun...over 40 or someone with weak hand dexterity/strength issues (just due to mechanical & physical operation requirements) I'd go with the revolver
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 12-11-2013 at 10:38 AM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    38 in a 2 inch barrel is not all that more umpf than a 380 out of a 3 inch barrel, plus the 380 does not have BC gap. But girls seem to like 38 snub revolvers. Maybe it is because they may be perceived to be prettier. 38 is best out of a 5 inch barrel, IMO, 4 would be the next best, 3 better than a 380, 2 IMO on the same level as a 380.

    If she is going to open carry get a 3 or a 4 inch barrel 38. Not many are manufactured these days with 5 unless it is a SA revolver. I carry a 5.5 inch SA revolver, with a 3 inch 44 cap and ball as backup. Though I have changed to my new EDC, a 4.75 SA 44 magnum, and I carry a 5 shot DA snub 38 as backup. At least until I get a CA bulldog for backup.

    Take your time, and keep in mind that some 9mm are not much bigger than 380's. IMO 38 snub, and 380 are close up last ditch guns. BUT 380's have stopped many bad guys. And 38 snub was the standard for detectives for a long time.
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    I would suggest you take her to a gun shop and put a bunch of weapons in her hand. Eventually one will fit her well and you can go from there.
    My Sweet Baboo has a Ruger P95 as her favorite, but she DCs an S&W .38 revolver for the ease of deployment.
    Your mileage may vary.
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    First, and most importantly, ask yourself if the future firearm comes in a variety visually pleasing colors. Black does go with everything, but black is, well, not a every season color.
    Second, it must compliment just about every piece of jewelry that she may wear.
    Third, it must not emanate obnoxious odors or leave stains on DRY CLEAN ONLY clothing.
    Fourth, it must never, ever, be more complicated than her smartphone to operate.
    Fifth, see number one, because if it is black, surely she will learn to enjoy shooting and desire a "wardrobe" of pistols to compliment any occasion.
    Sixth, make sure your credit card has plenty of balance remaining, you do know how women like to "collect" fashion accessories.

    These concerns are by no means all inclusive.....good luck.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Keltecs come in several colors, as well as CA revolvers. Not sure about the rugers. But hey there is always paint.

    I offered to paint my wife's JA380 pink, but that got a "Ohhh He!! No" from her. She just is not into pink, she likes chrome.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 12-11-2013 at 12:37 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Well those 2 types are generally bound by the basic type of guns used:

    38 ... revolver

    380 semi-auto pistol

    As far as operation and maintenance , the revolver is generally better suited to a non-mechanically inclined person

    But the pistols are very popular with both male and females
    There is good reasons to own one or the other or both the only way to decide what ones the best for her is to handle and shoot them.

    My daughter loves my PPKS but she has trouble using it about every 3 rounds she dumps the mag the mag release location is just not right for.

    She is a very excellent shot and shoots all kinds of hand guns well. I see no reason to change her style because one make of handgun is giving her trouble.

    There are just to many other good choices out there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    38 in a 2 inch barrel is not all that more umpf than a 380 out of a 3 inch barrel, plus the 380 does not have BC gap. But girls seem to like 38 snub revolvers. Maybe it is because they may be perceived to be prettier. 38 is best out of a 5 inch barrel, IMO, 4 would be the next best, 3 better than a 380, 2 IMO on the same level as a 380.
    Out of a 3" barrel, a typical 380 load will give 800-900 fps with a ~90gr bullet. A 2" revolver firing a 38 special +P will give roughly the same velocities with a 125-135gr bullet. The extra weight can give much improved penetration, and there are hollowpoints designed for 38 special that give excellent and reliable expansion in this velocity range(the 135gr Gold Dot is a good example).

    The above numbers came from Ballistics By the Inch from their "real world weapons" charts.

    http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/38special.html

    http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/380auto2.html

    On the other hand, however, a typical compact 380 will hold 7+1 or 8+1 rounds, as opposed to 5 for most snubnose revolvers(and 6 for a handful of them).

    At the end of the day, I tend to think that the best choice is the one that you can shoot accurately and reliably, and will actually carry with you. I'm more comfortable with a revolver in any form, so that's what I carry, but that's not the best choice for everyone.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bunnspecial View Post
    Out of a 3" barrel, a typical 380 load will give 800-900 fps with a ~90gr bullet. A 2" revolver firing a 38 special +P will give roughly the same velocities with a 125-135gr bullet. The extra weight can give much improved penetration, and there are hollowpoints designed for 38 special that give excellent and reliable expansion in this velocity range(the 135gr Gold Dot is a good example).

    The above numbers came from Ballistics By the Inch from their "real world weapons" charts.

    http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/38special.html

    http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/380auto2.html

    On the other hand, however, a typical compact 380 will hold 7+1 or 8+1 rounds, as opposed to 5 for most snubnose revolvers(and 6 for a handful of them).

    At the end of the day, I tend to think that the best choice is the one that you can shoot accurately and reliably, and will actually carry with you. I'm more comfortable with a revolver in any form, so that's what I carry, but that's not the best choice for everyone.
    Hardly, a snub loses considerable pressure in a two inch barrel. Some loads drop by almost half, depending on the powder. Unless a very fast powder is used most of the powder is burned after the bullet leaves the barrel. Try around 700fps is more typical. Read your own cites they list 2 inch barrel, the best on their is a little over 800. And if those are calculated FPS, instead of actual I doubt it is even close to that. You would be lucky to get 700 out of a snub.

    The FBI wisely issued snubs with a heavy bullet instead of a fast light bullet. More weight more powder burned, more weight more energy on target. Lighter bullet quicker loss of energy, less penetration. When it gets down to those calibers penetration is better then short expansion. I use 160 grain in my snub. We only use FMJ in our little 380, and then 100 grain instead of 90. For the Hi Point with a longer barrel the bullet weight is 115 and still FMJ.

    2 inch test barrels do not have a BC gap, revolvers do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Hardly, a snub loses considerable pressure in a two inch barrel. Some loads drop by almost half, depending on the powder. Unless a very fast powder is used most of the powder is burned after the bullet leaves the barrel. Try around 700fps is more typical. Read your own cites they list 2 inch barrel, the best on their is a little over 800. And if those are calculated FPS, instead of actual I doubt it is even close to that. You would be lucky to get 700 out of a snub.

    The FBI wisely issued snubs with a heavy bullet instead of a fast light bullet. More weight more powder burned, more weight more energy on target. Lighter bullet quicker loss of energy, less penetration. When it gets down to those calibers penetration is better then short expansion. I use 160 grain in my snub. We only use FMJ in our little 380, and then 100 grain instead of 90. For the Hi Point with a longer barrel the bullet weight is 115 and still FMJ.

    2 inch test barrels do not have a BC gap, revolvers do.
    Read down to the bottom at the links I provided. They list "real world" numbers from both a Detective Special and an S&W 642 for all of the ammo tested. The 135gr Gold Dot gave 928 fps out of the DS, and 897 out of the 642.

    All of the numbers on that site are actual chronograph numbers-they give a detailed account of their testing methodology, and the full data(not just averages) is available in spreadsheet form. I tend to trust the numbers from that site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bunnspecial View Post
    Read down to the bottom at the links I provided. They list "real world" numbers from both a Detective Special and an S&W 642 for all of the ammo tested. The 135gr Gold Dot gave 928 fps out of the DS, and 897 out of the 642.

    All of the numbers on that site are actual chronograph numbers-they give a detailed account of their testing methodology, and the full data(not just averages) is available in spreadsheet form. I tend to trust the numbers from that site.
    Now, now, we wouldn't want to confuse anyone with facts now would we?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bunnspecial View Post
    Read down to the bottom at the links I provided. They list "real world" numbers from both a Detective Special and an S&W 642 for all of the ammo tested. The 135gr Gold Dot gave 928 fps out of the DS, and 897 out of the 642.

    All of the numbers on that site are actual chronograph numbers-they give a detailed account of their testing methodology, and the full data(not just averages) is available in spreadsheet form. I tend to trust the numbers from that site.
    Maybe you should post on here what you are claiming, because I looked at the site and the best out of the group was a little over 800fps.

    OK I didn't scroll down far enough. But I would still not count on those figures. I have seen other test not done by manufactures were the velocity does not even come close. And the BB ammo in 380 clearly outclasses the 38 snub velocities. Several weapons OVER 1000 FPS. So my post stands, with either hot ammo or standard ammo a 380 is just as effective as a 38 snub.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 12-11-2013 at 01:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Maybe you should post on here what you are claiming, because I looked at the site and the best out of the group was a little over 800fps.
    Did you scroll all the way to the bottom of the page at the link I posted? The numbers are there!

    Here is a cropped version of the chart, showing the relevant data points

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	real guns velocities.jpg 
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    Last edited by bunnspecial; 12-11-2013 at 01:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Maybe you should post on here what you are claiming, because I looked at the site and the best out of the group was a little over 800fps.

    OK I didn't scroll down far enough. But I would still not count on those figures. I have seen other test not done by manufactures were the velocity does not even come close. And the BB ammo in 380 clearly outclasses the 38 snub velocities. Several weapons OVER 1000 FPS. So my post stands, with either hot ammo or standard ammo a 380 is just as effective as a 38 snub.
    Cite, please. bunnspecial did, it only seems fair for you to do the same.
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    I found that when running rounds over the chronograph my short barreled guns lost less then one would think.

    As with each and every gun and load the only true way of knowing is to shoot them over a chronograph. I have a 5 inch 44 that turns out better vel then my 3 7.5 inch 44s with the same loads. Minimum chambers and barrel I suspect.

    If one doesn't chronograph his loads one is just guessing and hoping they are close to what ever loading book or the manufacture say they are.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 12-11-2013 at 02:07 PM.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    Cite, please. bunnspecial did, it only seems fair for you to do the same.
    His cites are enough, I can't cite that I don't trust those figures. Mine come from my own tests or other test by people I know.

    His own cites show that the 380 has overall higher velocity than the 38. BUT he decided to be dishonest and post the LOW figures for 380, and the HIGH figures for 38. VERY dishonest!

    I'll post some from others.

    http://www.yankeegunnuts.com/2012/07...tics-snubnose/
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 12-11-2013 at 02:08 PM.
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    Only in his guns different guns well yield different results.

    If any of you have shot the same loads over a chronograph through your guns I would like to see the figures.

    Then one can say for sure my gun is giving me this vel with this load.

    Otherwise it is just a guessing game I have chronograph thousands of loads through many different guns and very few give the same results as the next one.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Only in his guns different guns well yield different results.

    If any of you have shot the same loads over a chronograph through your guns I would like to see the figures.

    Then one can say for sure my gun is giving me this vel with this load.

    Otherwise it is just a guessing game I have chronograph thousands of loads through many different guns and very few give the same results as the next one.
    I used the dept chrono to test loads that were considered for carry, none ever matched the factory claim. But the 380 had less of spread. My own figures would not be a cite. Duhhhhh! Even using a chrono it is still a guessing game as to performance to the situation.

    Add to that the fact that 380 has been known to stop attacks, I'll see if I can find the video that claims it on paper is very effective. One gun has higher velocities, the other heavier bullets with lower velocities. Neither can match a 500 Smith and Wesson in a 6 inch barrel.

    Both type guns have a short sight radius, with the semi auto usually slightly longer. Personally I like revolvers, but the 380 performs, especially with BB ammo. Though I do not feel the need to use +p ammo in mine, I load to accuracy not velocity. A 22 will get the job done if the bullet is placed properly.

    A gun with a longer barrel will almost always have more power than a gun of the same caliber with a shorter barrel.

    Further if you don't want to carry a 380, then don't. If you want to carry a snub 38 then just do it. These caliber wars are beyond stupid. The 380 works just as well a cannon if the 380 stops the threat, and that is what is important.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 12-11-2013 at 02:30 PM.
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    So WalkingWolf you do not own chronograph that's fine.

    Saying your pistol has this vel with this bullet is a cite for that pistol.

    Making general statement for a certain caliber is fine as along as those statement match generally know facts of that caliber.

    A 380 normally throws the same weight bullet slower then a 38spl with of the same weight with about the same barrel length.

    From the Lee reloading book I have highest vel list for a 90 gr 380 is 980fps 38spl with a 90gr is 1305.

    Not that there could couldn't be loads above and below those

    A 38spl well most always be able to throw the same weight bullet in the same barrel lengths faster then a 380acp.

    Not that there could not be exceptions in a certain guns or guns with certain loads.

    Talking ballistics, firearms in general I find very interesting. Thus we have caliber wars as you call them.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 12-11-2013 at 05:58 PM.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    So WalkingWolf you do not own chronograph that's fine.

    Saying your pistol has this vel with this bullet is a cite for that pistol.

    Making general statement for a certain caliber is fine as along as those statement match generally know facts of that caliber.

    A 380 normally throws the same weight bullet slower then a 38spl with of the same weight from the Lee reloading book I have highest vel list for a 90 gr 380 is 980fps 38spl with a 90gr is 1305.

    Not that there could couldn't be loads above and below those A 38spl well most always be able to throw the same weight bullet in the same barrel lengths faster then a 380acp.

    Not that there could not be exceptions in a certain guns or guns with certain loads.

    Talking ballistics, firearms in general I find very interesting. Thus we have caliber wars as you call them.
    You don't pay attention much do you? I said I don't have a chrono, NOT that I didn't use one. I would expect more honesty from you...
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I used the dept chrono to test loads that were considered for carry, none ever matched the factory claim. But the 380 had less of spread. My own figures would not be a cite. Duhhhhh! Even using a chrono it is still a guessing game as to performance to the situation.
    So what post besides this one have you claimed to use one or made the statement that you didn't own one.

    I guess I must have missed it. please quote it and correct me.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 12-11-2013 at 07:32 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7om5hipp View Post
    I am looking to buy my wife her first handgun to carry and use, but not sure what would be best out of those two types. Could someone please tell e what you would use between the two and what you think the pros and cons are.

    I am looking at those because she has never really handled firearms much in her youth. She shoots mine with little problem but I carry a Nagant at the moment.

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    Hope the comments by others doesn't confuse you too much. Either the .38 or .380 is a good choice. I go back and forth from my semi auto to revolver but rely on my revolver most of the time (smith & Wesson model 686 Talo with 3in. barrel). Long barrel vs. short barrel, fast bullet vs. slow bullet. Way I see it, the person on the receiving end isn't going to see the bullet anyways and its not going to feel good either way. Good luck in your search and safe shooting..

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLKH2O View Post
    Hope the comments by others doesn't confuse you too much. Either the .38 or .380 is a good choice. I go back and forth from my semi auto to revolver but rely on my revolver most of the time (smith & Wesson model 686 Talo with 3in. barrel). Long barrel vs. short barrel, fast bullet vs. slow bullet. Way I see it, the person on the receiving end isn't going to see the bullet anyways and its not going to feel good either way. Good luck in your search and safe shooting..
    +1 I can't think of one caliber I would agree to be shot with...
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    Quote Originally Posted by bunnspecial View Post
    Did you scroll all the way to the bottom of the page at the link I posted? The numbers are there!

    Here is a cropped version of the chart, showing the relevant data points

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	real guns velocities.jpg 
Views:	121 
Size:	27.6 KB 
ID:	11028

    One really cannot look at a single value as many variables come into play ... I would look for a chart that was based on at least 7 measurements each with a 95% t-test range being listed as well as knowing the errors of the test measurement instruments and methods being utilized.

    Always interesting to review such data though ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    +1 I can't think of one caliber I would agree to be shot with...
    +2

    Not one.

    Something we can agree on.
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