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Thread: New here, question about CC permits

  1. #1
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    New here, question about CC permits

    Allow me to introduce myself, I'm just shy of 50, a guy, married with kids. I moved to NC many years ago from the North (NY, CT, RI) Pretty much been open carrying since. The time has come for me to get a CC permit, should not have been a big deal.
    Apparently it is, for me. I am not a US citizen, I've lived and worked in the US since I was 16, I'm a legal resident, I pay taxes, I own a house, cars, guns..... I'm also an Honorably Discharged US Marine.
    NC has a rule that states you have to be a US citizen to get a CC permit, I've checked around and apparently NC is one of the few states that have this particular requirement, I've got friends in other states that are legal residents like myself, and they all have had no issues getting their CC's. This would be because their states only require that you be a legal resident, which makes a lot more sense.
    Reading through the posts I haven't seen this particular question posed before, so I ask the more enlightened among you, does anyone know if there is anyway to work around this, given my background?
    I know,some will say, just get your citizenship...... That is not an option for me at this time, it's a lot of money that I just don't have right now(yes, citizenship costs money, lots of it, generally in the 3-4 thousand dollar range by the time all is said and done)
    I can always keep OC'ing, but given the new direction my job is taking me, a CC makes a lot more sense.
    I'm really kind of peeved that the State still has this kind of short sightedness. Really, what's the difference if I can legally carry openly? Except that a CC permit makes it a tad easier to locate me.....?
    So, my question stands. Is there any way for me to get a CC in NC without being a US citizen?

  2. #2
    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    One approach would be to get a non-resident license from a state that NC recognizes. Used to be that Utah would be a good option, but a couple of years ago they changed their law to require you to have a license from your state of residence if that state recognized Utah. I'm not sure what states might be worth looking into now that Utah has changed, maybe Florida? I know you can apply via mail and they do issue to non-residents. Seems like a good place to start anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    One approach would be to get a non-resident license from a state that NC recognizes. Used to be that Utah would be a good option, but a couple of years ago they changed their law to require you to have a license from your state of residence if that state recognized Utah. I'm not sure what states might be worth looking into now that Utah has changed, maybe Florida? I know you can apply via mail and they do issue to non-residents. Seems like a good place to start anyway.
    I'll look into that, thanks. I have friends all over the US, I'm sure they can also do some digging for me. In fact, I just got finished doing a complete tear down/cleaning/ re-assembly of my Norinco 1911. Don't knock it, this one has been reliable as a brick from day 1. In fact, during the inspection of it, I saw no wear other than what it had when I purchased it 15 years and a few thousand rounds ago.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Welcome to the NC side of the forum...

    I am not an attorney, but would like to provide some advice based on your initial post but require further clarification if you will indulge my query(ies): (if any of these question's responses compromises your position or you feel uncomfortable answering them in a public form please do not respond since this is a public forum accessible by EVERYONE on Al Gore's creation)

    (you could PM or we could meet since are close enough to discuss f2f.)

    1. what immigration status are you currently in to be a residence in this country? Undocumented? Lawfully present? Qualified? US National? or Unqualified? http://www.dshs.wa.gov/manuals/eaz/s...ngenelig.shtml

    2. since you state you currently 'have firearms' did you purchased firearms from an FFL?
    a. if so, did you get them in NC and did you get PPP documentation from the Sheriff to present to the FFL?
    b.if not, did the FFL clear you using FBI's NICS?

    3. you honorably served and received an honorable discharge, did you receive any type of documentation from the armed services when discharged granting you some type of citizenship dispensation to your alien status?

    4. You have a NC Drivers License?

    my memory is extremely fuzzy on this area and after searching can't quickly locate a cite, so please do not shoot me, but those non-US citizens who entered into enlistment and served in our Armed Services and received honorable discharges were supposed to receive some dispensation from the US Government regarding their citizenship status. I will run out to SJAFB later today or tomorrow and query the JAG about the question and specific cite(s) and get back to you later on this aspect.

    (HINT HINT this means other reader membership who served and might have expertise in this area could pipe in.)

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 12-11-2013 at 02:54 PM. Reason: correction
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    Accepting your word for your US residency status and honorable discharge, welcome Marine!

    As mentioned, you can check into any other state that will issue a CC permit to a non-resident of that state. NC recognizes ALL other CC permits (14-415.24). You cannot use an out of state CC permit to bypass the PPP, however. It will also not be of use to you if you run afoul of a Fed in a GFSZ per 18 USC 922(q), but that worry is really remote.

    Check online with the VA State Police website for CC application. Go ahead and take a CC course here in NC as it will benefit you with knowledge of the law, and will get you further documentation toward the application. Your DD214 will also be of value showing proof of training and proficiency with firearms.

    Here's a link to Chap 14 of the NC General Statutes:

    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascript...l?Chapter=0014 Sales and purchase begins with section 52A and CC is section 54B.

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Check out this link: http://www.uscis.gov/news/fact-sheet...ice-fact-sheet

    I may be wrong, but as I read that, you are, as an honorably discharged veteran, exempt from many of the rules which apply to non-veteran immigrants. Going on that assumption, I am pretty sure it would be much less expensive for you than what you are thinking.

    I can't address NC's laws concerning CC permits, but I do know that Alabama's pistol permits require U.S. citizenship. I became familiar with a lot of these laws after marrying my beautiful bride.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    There was a bill up, not sure if it passed, that a NC resident must have a NC CHP to conceal carry a handgun. Out of state permits are then still allowed for out of staters. I have no idea if it passed, or was part of the last bill.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    There was a bill up, not sure if it passed, that a NC resident must have a NC CHP to conceal carry a handgun. Out of state permits are then still allowed for out of staters. I have no idea if it passed, or was part of the last bill.
    There was no change, but the intent to do away with NC residents not possessing NC CHPs carrying with out-of-state non-resident permits is still there:

    14-415.24. Reciprocity; out-of-state handgun permits.

    (a) A valid concealed handgun permit or license issued by another state is valid in North Carolina.

    (b) Repealed by Session Laws 2011-268, s. 22(a), effective December 1, 2011.

    (c) Every 12 months after the effective date of this subsection, the Department of Justice shall make written inquiry of the concealed handgun permitting authorities in each other state as to: (i) whether a North Carolina resident may carry a concealed handgun in their state based upon having a valid North Carolina concealed handgun permit and (ii) whether a North Carolina resident may apply for a concealed handgun permit in that state based upon having a valid North Carolina concealed handgun permit. The Department of Justice shall attempt to secure from each state permission for North Carolina residents who hold a valid North Carolina concealed handgun permit to carry a concealed handgun in that state, either on the basis of the North Carolina permit or on the basis that the North Carolina permit is sufficient to permit the issuance of a similar license or permit by the other state. (2003-199, s. 1; 2011-268, s. 22(a).)

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    sfc, thanks I guess I didn't articulate the proper sequence of words during my search of Al Gore's creation...

    NC requires US citizenship.

    OP JAG wouldn't talk w/me but said to call them and I was remiss and didn't get their direct number but SFC's fact sheet provides a direct number.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 12-12-2013 at 06:24 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    Check out this link: http://www.uscis.gov/news/fact-sheet...ice-fact-sheet

    I may be wrong, but as I read that, you are, as an honorably discharged veteran, exempt from many of the rules which apply to non-veteran immigrants. Going on that assumption, I am pretty sure it would be much less expensive for you than what you are thinking.

    I can't address NC's laws concerning CC permits, but I do know that Alabama's pistol permits require U.S. citizenship. I became familiar with a lot of these laws after marrying my beautiful bride.

    Per: http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislat...ticle_54B.html

    14-415.12. Criteria to qualify for the issuance of a permit.(a) The sheriff shall issue a permit to an applicant if the applicant qualifies under the following criteria:(1) The applicant is a citizen of the United States and has been a resident of the State 30 days or longer immediately preceding the filing of the application.(2) The applicant is 21 years of age or older.(3) The applicant does not suffer from a physical or mental infirmity that prevents the safe handling of a handgun.(4) The applicant has successfully completed an approved firearms safety and training course which involves the actual firing of handguns and instruction in the laws of this State governing the carrying of a concealed handgun and the use of deadly force. The North Carolina Criminal Justice Education and Training Standards Commission shall prepare and publish general guidelines for courses and qualifications of instructors which would satisfy the requirements of this subdivision. An approved course shall be any course which satisfies the requirements of this subdivision and is certified or sponsored by:a. The North Carolina Criminal Justice Education and Training Standards Commission,b. The National Rifle Association, orc. A law enforcement agency, college, private or public institution or organization, or firearms training school, taught by instructors certified by the North Carolina Criminal Justice Education and Training Standards Commission or the National Rifle Association.Every instructor of an approved course shall file a copy of the firearms course description, outline, and proof of certification annually, or upon modification of the course if more frequently, with the North Carolina Criminal Justice Education and Training Standards Commission.(5) The applicant is not disqualified under subsection (b) of this section.
    About the only legal way around this, IMO, is that you will have to finally get your US Citizenship... Since 2002, you can have dual citizenship (assuming you are an Australian Citizen) per http://www.citizenship.gov.au/current/dual_citizenship/
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V65ozzie View Post
    So, my question stands. Is there any way for me to get a CC in NC without being a US citizen?

    Well...if you don't want to (or cannot afford) become a US Citizen, you could change profession and become of the following "chosen few" that can CC w/o a permit:

    District attorney or an assistant district attorney
    Sworn law-enforcement officers
    State probation or parole certified officers
    North Carolina district or superior court judge
    Last edited by carolina guy; 12-16-2013 at 01:41 PM.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina guy View Post
    Well...if you don't want to (or cannot afford) become a US Citizen, you could change profession and become of the following "chosen few" that can CC w/o a permit:

    District attorney or an assistant district attorney
    Sworn law-enforcement officers
    State probation or parole certified officers
    North Carolina district or superior court judge
    Or he could just open carry, a novel idea in NC I know, but for many of us it works.
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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Or he could just open carry, a novel idea in NC I know, but for many of us it works.

    Well...he said he has been for many years, but was asking about a CHP specifically. Personally, I think he should just stick with OC, but YMMV.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina guy View Post
    Well...he said he has been for many years, but was asking about a CHP specifically. Personally, I think he should just stick with OC, but YMMV.
    It seems to me to be the solution to his problem. Except for a few exceptions he can OC anywhere he could CC.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    fyi, i have not received any communications from the initial poster but i personally hope he finds a direction to take from the information presented.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    fyi, i have not received any communications from the initial poster but i personally hope he finds a direction to take from the information presented.

    ipse
    Just PM'd you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    Check out this link: http://www.uscis.gov/news/fact-sheet...ice-fact-sheet

    I may be wrong, but as I read that, you are, as an honorably discharged veteran, exempt from many of the rules which apply to non-veteran immigrants. Going on that assumption, I am pretty sure it would be much less expensive for you than what you are thinking.

    I can't address NC's laws concerning CC permits, but I do know that Alabama's pistol permits require U.S. citizenship. I became familiar with a lot of these laws after marrying my beautiful bride.

    Just spoke with someone at Immigration, they said that I qualify for reduced fees due to my military service. But they didn't have the exact information handy. I'm going to look into this some more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    It seems to me to be the solution to his problem. Except for a few exceptions he can OC anywhere he could CC.
    One of the main reasons is that I hopefully will be getting a job that will take me out of state frequently. While I personally believe that OC is a great thing, I cannot do that in other states. I will continue to OC in NC. In all the years I've lived here,I have never once been asked to leave a building,that I had a legal right to be in.
    I do have one question about that though...... State owned buildings, that have a No CC sign on them, can you still OC in them? I understand that courts and such have no weapons at all rules, but how about the places I pay my water bill, taxes, DMV and the like? The rules just seem a tad vague sometimes.
    In the area I live, I haven't seen any "No Guns allowed" signs at all, just a smattering of "no concealed weapons" ones.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V65ozzie View Post
    One of the main reasons is that I hopefully will be getting a job that will take me out of state frequently. While I personally believe that OC is a great thing, I cannot do that in other states. I will continue to OC in NC. In all the years I've lived here,I have never once been asked to leave a building,that I had a legal right to be in.
    I do have one question about that though...... State owned buildings, that have a No CC sign on them, can you still OC in them? I understand that courts and such have no weapons at all rules, but how about the places I pay my water bill, taxes, DMV and the like? The rules just seem a tad vague sometimes.
    In the area I live, I haven't seen any "No Guns allowed" signs at all, just a smattering of "no concealed weapons" ones.
    I'll have to dig, you can't carry on federal property, by federal law, but I am unsure of state property. Though state parks is carry only with a CC, and then only CC. Thank GRNC for that jewel.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I'll have to dig, you can't carry on federal property, by federal law, but I am unsure of state property. Though state parks is carry only with a CC, and then only CC. Thank GRNC for that jewel.
    I Knew about the federal rules, and the only state park I go to is a beach, so I don't OC there(it's in the vehicle, I drive out onto the sand, so it's close by) I'd look funny playing with the kids in the water with my .45 strapped on.......

  21. #21
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V65ozzie View Post
    Just PM'd you.
    I responded a second time as apparently my first PM went into roadkill when my puter crashed and burned...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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