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Thread: Open Carry on Open Space

  1. #1
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    Open Carry on Open Space

    C.15. Firearms and Projectiles

    C.15.a: It shall be unlawful to openly carry, possess, discharge or use firearms, B-B guns, pellet guns, air guns, cross bows, long bows or slingshots while on Open Space lands, except in designated areas, or while in the possession of a valid Jefferson County Open Space Hunting Access Permit.

    Fine: $150.00

    C.15.b: It shall be unlawful to carry, possess, discharge, or use paintball guns and Airsoft-type guns while on Open Space lands.

    Fine: $75.00

    NOTE: In accordance with Section 29-11.7-104, C.R.S., Jefferson County Open Space Policy C.15.a. prohibits the open carrying of firearms while on Open Space lands, except in designated areas or while in possession of a valid Jefferson County Open Space Hunting Access Permit.

    Boulder County has a similar statue

    I'm wondering if these have been upheld by any appeals court?

    Doesn't state wide preemption prohibit this kind of regulation?

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JG_Buffalo View Post
    C.15. Firearms and Projectiles

    C.15.a: It shall be unlawful to openly carry, possess, discharge or use firearms, B-B guns, pellet guns, air guns, cross bows, long bows or slingshots while on Open Space lands, except in designated areas, or while in the possession of a valid Jefferson County Open Space Hunting Access Permit.

    Fine: $150.00

    C.15.b: It shall be unlawful to carry, possess, discharge, or use paintball guns and Airsoft-type guns while on Open Space lands.

    Fine: $75.00

    NOTE: In accordance with Section 29-11.7-104, C.R.S., Jefferson County Open Space Policy C.15.a. prohibits the open carrying of firearms while on Open Space lands, except in designated areas or while in possession of a valid Jefferson County Open Space Hunting Access Permit.

    Boulder County has a similar statue

    I'm wondering if these have been upheld by any appeals court?

    Doesn't state wide preemption prohibit this kind of regulation?
    Short answer on preemption = Yes

    Colorado has state preemption of local firearm laws, except for certain ordinances enacted by the City and County of Denver.[8]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Colorado

    Others will be along with more detail as the sun comes up
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  3. #3
    Regular Member mobiushky's Avatar
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    Colorado's Pre-emption is vastly misunderstood. The pre-emption clause is limited to the prohibition of types of firearms. Not the means of carry. The pre-emption clause is found in C.R.S. 29-11.7-103:

    29-11.7-103. Regulation - type of firearm - prohibited

    A local government may not enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the sale, purchase, or possession of a firearm that a person may lawfully sell, purchase, or possess under state or federal law. Any such ordinance, regulation, or other law enacted by a local government prior to March 18, 2003, is void and unenforceable.
    Notice the heading is "Regulation - type of firearm - prohibited". For insight to the local ordinances, you have to go to C.R.S. 29-11.7-104:

    29-11.7-104. Regulation - carrying - posting

    A local government may enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction. If a local government enacts an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area, the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area.
    This is the section that deals with carrying. And notice it says that a local gov MAY enact. Now they only have the power to regulate open carry and only in places where they have jurisdiction. So that means any city owned buildings or lands. But in order to be in compliance with the state law, they have to post signs at ALL public entrances.

    SO, bottom line, NO. Pre-emption does not contradict this law in JeffCo. The only caveat is if you carry to a park and no sign is posted. They are not following the requirements therefore they are not valid.

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    Regular Member Anubis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mobiushky View Post
    Now they only have the power to regulate open carry and only in places where they have jurisdiction. So that means any city owned buildings or lands. But in order to be in compliance with the state law, they have to post signs at ALL public entrances.

    SO, bottom line, NO. Pre-emption does not contradict this law in JeffCo. The only caveat is if you carry to a park and no sign is posted. They are not following the requirements therefore they are not valid.
    Absolutely correct.

    A public building can be posted no-OC at every entrance. The only way an outdoor area could be no-OC would be if every entrance were posted. I think that would require a fence.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    Absolutely correct.

    A public building can be posted no-OC at every entrance. The only way an outdoor area could be no-OC would be if every entrance were posted. I think that would require a fence.
    Now there is an interesting argument.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    "With more than 2,400 acres of open space, William Frederick Hayden Park on Green Mountain is the second largest park in Lakewood. The park features a challenging network of multi-use trails. The summit, at 6,800 feet, offers unique and stunning views of the Denver metropolitan area to the east, as well as high mountain peaks to the west."

    Yes that's right. 2,400 acres of Fenced and Posted open space.

    https://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF-...d=0CJcBEPwSMA8
    http://www.lakewood.org/HaydenPark/

    If they really want to go to the trouble, they can. And afterall, it's not as hard for the government (local, state, or federal) to find the funds for it as it would be for a family.

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    With 640 acres to the square mile, 2400 is pushing four square miles. Four squares would be 2560 acres, so even though they say "over 2400" I doubt it quite makes it or they'd say "over 2500."

    A 2x2 square of open land would need eight miles of fence. If it's not square, that means even more fence. (Well I suppose it could have less if it were a circle.) Not knowing the boundaries of this place, I'd be surprised if it's both square and just under four square miles, so I'd guess it would take more than eight miles of fence.

    Have fun, Jeffco gun grabber weenies! There are fence post pounders that fit your hands, I am sure.
    Last edited by SteveInCO; 12-14-2013 at 10:18 AM.

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    Thanks for the responses everyone?

    So would it be correct to assume unless there's a posted "No Firearms" on an entrance to LOCAL land one can open carry? (including parks and hiking trails)

    I was up at Fourth of July trail (operated by USDA) and it was posted "No firearms" but I thought we could carry on state federal land?

  9. #9
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JG_Buffalo View Post
    Thanks for the responses everyone?

    So would it be correct to assume unless there's a posted "No Firearms" on an entrance to LOCAL land one can open carry? (including parks and hiking trails)

    I was up at Fourth of July trail (operated by USDA) and it was posted "No firearms" but I thought we could carry on state federal land?
    National Park Service (NPS) land gun rules shall be in accordance with the laws for state parks within the state where the NPS land sits.
    2.1 Amendment on guns in national parks

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_CARD_Act_of_2009

    National Forests are generally good to carry if not restricted by local hunting laws.

    Is it Legal to Carry a Weapon in Colorado National Forests?
    While visiting National Forests in Colorado, you may carry a weapon. However, in addition to state laws, you must comply with Federal Regulations pertaining to the use of a firearm on National Forest System lands.
    A firearm may not be discharged in the following National Forest areas:

    1. Within 150 yards of a residence, building, campsite, developed recreation site, or occupied area; or
    2. Across or on a Forest Development road or an adjacent body of water, or in any manner or place whereby any person or property is exposed to injury or damage as a result of such discharge; or
    3. Into or within any cave. [36 CFR 261.10 (d)]

    Some forest or districts have additional restrictions on discharging a firearm. You are advised to check with the authorities in the areas you will be visiting.
    http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite.../1251594549010

    There are other federal lands where guns are restricted: national cemeteries, game sanctuaries, fisheries & Corps of Engineers controlled property all need to be checked.
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/05/08/senate-rejects-firearms-on-army-corps-engineers-lands-boosting-gun-control/

    http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_...rdb5066182.pdf


    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-15-2013 at 12:17 PM. Reason: Added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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