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Thread: Cities and Counties are Passing Ordinances Stating their Property is Off limits

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    Regular Member cirrusly's Avatar
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    Cities and Counties are Passing Ordinances Stating their Property is Off limits

    Quote Originally Posted by handgunlaw.us
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/iowa.pdf
    Note: Some Cities and Counties are passing ordinances stating their property is off limits. They will
    post signs. The Iowa Attorney General in Opinion No. 03-4-1 stated:

    ….narrowly and find that the statute does not interfere with the authority of a city to exercise its home rule
    power to place restrictions upon the possession of weapons which apply only to buildings owned or directly
    controlled by the city….
    This is disconcerting. I lived in Iowa for a few years before moving out east here. I'm glad to see a lot has changed for the better in the way of carry rights. I read them note on handgunlaw.us though. Are there currently any counties making said "unlawful" ordinances? If so, have they been challenged?
    I want to keep our founding fathers' visions and rights for this country pure. I implore you to do the same.

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    No one has been arrested nor charged under them as these are not actually laws. If you are illegally arrested under one, expect a 20000 to 30000 dollar payday. State law preempts all local firearm regulation, regardless of what miller the anti-freedom AG says.

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    Regular Member RugarRev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amaixner View Post
    No one has been arrested nor charged under them as these are not actually laws. If you are illegally arrested under one, expect a 20000 to 30000 dollar payday. State law preempts all local firearm regulation, regardless of what miller the anti-freedom AG says.
    ^^This^^ +1
    Stay Safe - RR

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    Regular Member cirrusly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amaixner View Post
    No one has been arrested nor charged under them as these are not actually laws. If you are illegally arrested under one, expect a 20000 to 30000 dollar payday. State law preempts all local firearm regulation, regardless of what miller the anti-freedom AG says.
    Good to hear the state preemp is being respected!!!!


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    Looks like we need some open carry at city halls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Looks like we need some open carry at city halls.
    Already done...I visit many city halls...Oc.

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cirrusly View Post
    This is disconcerting. I lived in Iowa for a few years before moving out east here. I'm glad to see a lot has changed for the better in the way of carry rights. I read them note on handgunlaw.us though. Are there currently any counties making said "unlawful" ordinances? If so, have they been challenged?
    The AG is trying to allow a backdoor into regulation by telling counties and cities they can pass resolutions that "ban" firearms. The legal definition of a resolution does not equate to an ordinance. Cities have basically been told to tell Law Abiding Firearm Carriers to leave. If they dont, charge them with criminal trespass. The LAC wouldnt be charged with a firearms related crime.

    Only a few have passed these resolutions. Iowa City and Blackhawk County are the two I remember most, probably because I spoke at both of them.

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    Regular Member cirrusly's Avatar
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    Interesting. So if I strolled down the street OCing a holstered handgun in Iowa city I would likely get charged with "trespassing"? Have there been any cases of this?


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    Quote Originally Posted by cirrusly View Post
    Interesting. So if I strolled down the street OCing a holstered handgun in Iowa city I would likely get charged with "trespassing"? Have there been any cases of this?
    Reference post number 2 on this page, already been answered.

    If you want more in-depth information, read the iowa code section in trespass.

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    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    My father just got elected mayor of a small town there that had passed one of these. I asked him to bring it back up as soon as he is sworn in and being up the city would be paying money they could not afford to try to enforce it.

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cirrusly View Post
    Interesting. So if I strolled down the street OCing a holstered handgun in Iowa city I would likely get charged with "trespassing"? Have there been any cases of this?


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    No and no. Their resolution stated city hall, public parking garages and transportation and City Park. All of which, except city hall, I have OC'd in/on without issue.

    As amaixner said, no known issues to date throughout Iowa. However, I believe that if one were so inclined as to tempt fate, I believe it would lead us to a stronger preemption law and send the AG back into his hole.

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    Regular Member cirrusly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker6900 View Post
    No and no. Their resolution stated city hall, public parking garages and transportation and City Park. All of which, except city hall, I have OC'd in/on without issue.

    As amaixner said, no known issues to date throughout Iowa. However, I believe that if one were so inclined as to tempt fate, I believe it would lead us to a stronger preemption law and send the AG back into his hole.

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    Thank you for the information, and especially for exercising your right in the city halls and other high-profile areas while going about your daily business. This undoubingly helps reinforce that the AG can not enforce these illegal "ordinances" and they are merely a puppet show.


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    Marion tried it

    I do not recall how long ago it was, two years perhaps, that Marion wanted to place a ban on open carry in city buildings. A lot of people showed up in city hall, as did the local TV cameras. The council voted it down. During the discussion a couple of memorable points were brought to my attention. First, a city cannot pass laws, only ordinances. A city ordinance is limited to being minor misdemeanors. Even if the council enacted the ordinance then punishment would be limited to fines and maybe a few days in county lockup.

    The second memorable point I found in that discussion of a ban on open carry on city property was that the city council knew any firearm ordinance would likely be in violation of state law. They knew that a challenge of the ordinance was likely and that defending the ordinance would be difficult. From what the members of the council said it seems to me that Marion will try to do something like this again. One council member voted it down only because she felt it did not go far enough and wanted something "better" instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IA_farmboy View Post
    I do not recall how long ago it was, [s]two[/s] three years perhaps, that Marion wanted to place a ban on open carry in city buildings. A lot of people showed up in city hall, as did the local TV cameras. The council voted it down. During the discussion a couple of memorable points were brought to my attention. First, a city cannot pass laws, only ordinances. A city ordinance is limited to being minor misdemeanors. Even if the council enacted the ordinance then punishment would be limited to fines and maybe a few days in county lockup.

    The second memorable point I found in that discussion of a ban on open carry on city property was that the city council knew any firearm ordinance would likely be in violation of state law. They knew that a challenge of the ordinance was likely and that defending the ordinance would be difficult. From what the members of the council said it seems to me that Marion will try to do something like this again. One council member voted it down only because she felt it did not go far enough and wanted something "better" instead.
    1.
    (5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.
    2. If cities cannot pass laws, then what is an ordinance? I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, the word you were looking for was "resolution" not "ordinance".

    3. What's a "minor" misdemeanor? I know simple misdemeanors are up to thirty days.


    There was a thread on this very subject around the time when it happened.

    IA_farmboy, I'm surprised I'd even have the opportunity to cite a forum rule in response to one of your posts. You're a rather large contributor as far as the Iowa forums go and you've been here over four years(just under a year longer than I have). At the same time, I'm glad you brought this up because it may serve as an opportunity for anyone in a similar position to yours to get a bit of clarity on the subject.

    4. Happy New Year!

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    The relevant Iowa Code:
    364.3 Limitation of powers.
    The following are limitations upon the powers of a city:
    1. A city council shall exercise a power only by the passage of a motion, a resolution, an amendment, or an ordinance.
    2. For a violation of an ordinance a city shall not provide a penalty in excess of the maximum fine and term of imprisonment for a simple misdemeanor under section 903.1, subsection 1, paragraph “a”. An amount equal to ten percent of all fines collected by cities shall be deposited in the account established in section 602.8108. However, one hundred percent of all fines collected by a city pursuant to section 321.236, subsection 1, shall be retained by the city. The criminal penalty surcharge required by section 911.1 shall be added to a city fine and is not a part of the city’s penalty.
    Iowa Code defining punishment for a simple misdemeanor:
    For a simple misdemeanor, there shall be a fine of at least sixty-five dollars but not to exceed six hundred twenty-five dollars. The court may order imprisonment not to exceed thirty days in lieu of a fine or in addition to a fine.
    I'm not sure what the distinction between a law and an ordinance was. The best I understood it is that law is something passed by a legislative body, an ordinance is more of a directive enacted by an executive body. A city council is not legally a legislative body, it is an executive body allowed certain police powers. The expectation is that a city council is to execute legislation and derives its power from the state executive, not from the legislature. Therefore it has no authority beyond that of the executive. At least that is how I understand it.

    I see I did not recall the correct language, it's not a "minor" misdemeanor but a "simple" misdemeanor.

    Darkshadow, thanks for keeping me in line. Have a safe new year!

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    {clip} "As amaixner said, no known issues to date throughout Iowa. However, I believe that if one were so inclined as to tempt fate, I believe it would lead us to a stronger preemption law and send the AG back into his hole."

    While I greatly respect your open carrying everywhere (and I have to chuckle at your quote from Eye95 which sounds as if it came from a Tory in 1775 addressing George Washington), I'm torn between wanting to emulate you, versus a sense that appearing to taunt ignorantly-fearful pedestrians, or sticking my thumb in Barney Fife's eye, might be counter-productive to my much-appreciated freedom to carry concealed.

    It's interesting that Kansans may open carry, but Iowans visiting Kansas must conceal carry. I guess Iowans just are scary-looking enough to non-Iowans (and even to some Iowans in the Iowa City parking deck) without adding heat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IA_farmboy View Post
    I'm not sure what the distinction between a law and an ordinance was.
    "Law" is the general broad category - all state statutes, local ordinances, properly promulgated regulations, and court opinions are sources of state "law."

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    To Whomever is Concerned:

    While it is True that Iowa Criminal Code 724.28 Preempts ALL Political Subdivisions from Enacting Ordinances Concerning Firearms..., The Legislature Falls Short in Offering Enhanced Protection from other Types of Mandates aside from Ordinances.

    What The Iowa Attorney General said at The Time is that, while Ordinances are Banned by Operation of Law, Mandates other than Ordinances, say... Resolutions, are not so Preempted because Section 28 of that Chapter Fails to Mention Them.

    It what a Political Slight on His Part, that while Undermining Iowa Law Legal Intent, does not Nessecarily Depart from Established Law.

    Iowa just needs to Strenghten its Preemption Statute to Outright Preempt all such Matters, Similiar to what: Alabama, Florida, Indiana, and Kentucky; have done.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    724.28 PROHIBITION OF REGULATION BY POLITICAL
    SUBDIVISIONS.
    A political subdivision of the state shall not enact an ordinance
    regulating the ownership, possession, legal transfer, lawful
    transportation, registration, or licensing of firearms when the
    ownership, possession, transfer, or transportation is otherwise
    lawful under the laws of this state. An ordinance regulating
    firearms in violation of this section existing on or after April 5,
    1990, is void.
    How enforceable is a resolution compared to a regulation, ordinance, code, or law?

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFVF View Post
    [snippity-snip]It's interesting that Kansans may open carry, but Iowans visiting Kansas must conceal carry. I guess Iowans just are scary-looking enough to non-Iowans (and even to some Iowans in the Iowa City parking deck) without adding heat.
    Begging your pardon, but where does that come from?
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 01-13-2014 at 06:08 PM.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Begging your pardon, but where does that come from?
    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Resolutions are not enforceable. Resolutions express a preference or wish of the government. They can be and usually are ignored. In this case, it means that they wish you wouldn't carry a gun and wish that they had the power to stop you.
    Well... scroom then.

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