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Thread: 2014 "Weapons" Bills

  1. #1
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    2014 "Weapons" Bills

    It's about that time. This page lists some of the "weapons" related bills submitted. Important to note that not all bills that affect RKBA make it to this list.

    TFred

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?141+sbj+068

  2. #2
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    • HB 8 Concealed handgun permits; decreases local law-enforcement background investigation fee.


    • HB 21 School boards; employee firearms training.


    • HB 43 Federal firearms laws; enforcement.


    • HB 48 Firearms; possession following conviction of certain crimes, penalty.


    • HB 61 Firearms; purchase and sale of rifles or shotguns, penalties.

    .......Particularly onerous - blocks non-Virginians from purchase of long guns here.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?141+sbj+068
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-14-2013 at 03:27 AM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    I sent VCDL a list this week of at least 2 dozen pre-filed bills that effect RKBA. Most effect it indirectly.

    No, I did not save the list. No, I am not going to go through the pre-filed bills again to try to recreate the list. No, I am not going to ask Phil to send the list back to me.

    What I noted about the bills on that list was that even the ones that "look good" (school personnel allowed to carry, fer instance) have some subtle bits to them that extend the import of the bill outside what one might consider the usual boundaries of what the bill deals with.

    Yes, it helps to be paranoid when reading bills. And remember, "Just because you are paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you."

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I think this is the list:

    > http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?141+ful+HB1
    >
    > http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?141+ful+SB4
    >
    > Watch these - the funds, being designated for domestic violence prevention, can be applied to anti-gun measures.
    >
    > http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?141+ful+HB7
    >
    > Just a basic cautionary note that this may cause confusion on right to posses firearms. While the Ds may push for restoration of voting rights (duh!) they may not be above using this as a scare tactic to push some anti-gun pieces.
    >
    > http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?141+ful+HB8
    >
    > Let's just make sure the fees cover the actual costs imposed by the FBI. Nothing like mandating a short fee so the check is not done due to lack of proper fee.
    >
    > http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...e?141+ful+HB21
    >
    > § 9.1-102, Section 57 sets slightly different standards of excusable or justified homicide for such persons. As these persons will NOT be certified as law enforcement officers, they have no immunity equal/similar to that provided for LEOs.
    >
    > § 9.1-184 sets up for training standards. With no qualified immunity no amount of training that looks like LEO training is going to save someone's wallet from a civil suit.
    >
    > § 18.2-282 purports to provide the immunity discussed above. Just like it does for any other person who is not a LEO. Not very reassuring.
    >
    > § 18.2-308 Section C.12 allows concealed carry without a permit on school grounds. Where is the protection for off-school grounds functions? Will this not mean that the designated person(s) will need to enter the school and retrieve the handgun before they can carry in on school grounds? In other words, they come into the building unable to defend against someone who exploits this loophole.
    >
    > § 22.1-279.10 sets out who can be selected to be the armed guard at schools. Two (2) paid positions and one volunteer position. The difference between the employment status is vital in considering civil suit protection.
    >
    > http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...e?141+ful+HB43 closes the barn door without any penalty.
    >
    > http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...e?141+ful+HB48 the misdemeanorization of gun prohibition based on criminal status. slippery slope and all that.
    >
    > http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...e?141+sum+HB50 Let's take a gun confiscated in, say, Arlington, and examine it in, say Grundy. Or in Indiana, if I read that liberally enough.
    >
    > http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...e?141+ful+HB51 Can we get this amended to allow shooting the driver of any such vehicle, or at least PITing them off the road?
    >
    > http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...e?141+ful+HB61 Section A negates current ATFE regulations allowing interstate sale. No good reason is given.
    >
    > http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...e?141+sum+HB66 Puts a school resource officer in each and every public school. Why do they need school personnel/volunteers if they are going to have a cop? (As in, why is having a cop not sufficient?) Also diverts lottery funds from "direct" education to policing activities. Does that not need additional legislation under the authorization of the Lottery statutes?
    >
    > http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?141+ful+SB6 the misdemeanorization of DNA testing
    >

  5. #5
    Regular Member half_life1052's Avatar
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    I suggest this response


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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by half_life1052 View Post

    .....

  7. #7
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by half_life1052 View Post
    Thanks - Already sent the above around the country - well not so much to the north.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member half_life1052's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Thanks - Already sent the above around the country - well not so much to the north.

    You are very welcome. While I won't be a Virginia resident after the first of the year (took a job in Texas) I will still keep up with things here.

  9. #9
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by half_life1052 View Post
    You are very welcome. While I won't be a Virginia resident after the first of the year (took a job in Texas) I will still keep up with things here.
    Best of luck in Texas - you're gonna miss OCing.

    Maybe it'll happen sooner if enough Viginian's move there
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    HB 21 School boards; employee firearms training.

    "to be certified and trained by the Virginia Center for School Safety or the National Rifle Association in the storage, use, and handling of a concealed handgun. "

    Sweet baby jeebus....do we really want some paper pushing, policy maker from the VCSS teaching people about concealed carry in schools? A monkey can tell them to keep their pistol in a lockbox (which I'm sure is what the plan is). We need people trained in tactics by a concealed carry instructor so that they can prevail in a gunfight. Are we going to have a repeat of 2011's failed gun safety program called Finnegan the Fox that was written by social workers and archery instructors?

    God save the Commonwealth.
    Last edited by ProShooter; 12-15-2013 at 11:58 PM.
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  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    HB 21 School boards; employee firearms training.

    "to be certified and trained by the Virginia Center for School Safety or the National Rifle Association in the storage, use, and handling of a concealed handgun. "

    Sweet baby jeebus....do we really want some paper pushing, policy maker from the VCSS teaching people about concealed carry in schools? A monkey can tell them to keep their pistol in a lockbox (which I'm sure is what the plan is). We need people trained in tactics by a concealed carry instructor so that they can prevail in a gunfight. Are we going to have a repeat of 2011's failed gun safety program called Finnegan the Fox that was written by social workers and archery instructors?

    God save the Commonwealth.
    The bill outlines the training requirements for designated persons as designed by the Department of Criminal Justice Services.

    The whole bill is a long read:
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...e?141+ful+HB21

    To me it would be much simplier to allow staff and teachers to carry just like other good, responsible people + allow legal carry of handguns by others.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    HB 21 School boards; employee firearms training.

    "to be certified and trained by the Virginia Center for School Safety or the National Rifle Association in the storage, use, and handling of a concealed handgun. "

    Sweet baby jeebus....do we really want some paper pushing, policy maker from the VCSS teaching people about concealed carry in schools? A monkey can tell them to keep their pistol in a lockbox (which I'm sure is what the plan is). We need people trained in tactics by a concealed carry instructor so that they can prevail in a gunfight. Are we going to have a repeat of 2011's failed gun safety program called Finnegan the Fox that was written by social workers and archery instructors?

    God save the Commonwealth.
    With all due respect, but there are a number (larger than 5) of trainers in self-defense tactics, concealed pistol tactics in general, and stuff like room clearing who teach the general public BUT do not teach a class for the CHP.

    My point being that "concealed carry instructor" has come to mean someone who teaches a class that will suffice for getting a CHP. I do not know of many who fit in that category who also teach how to carry concealed, or how to draw from concealment. There are, on the other hand, a lot of those folks who also teach marksmanship once you have managed to get your concealed handgun unconcealed. Some of them also teach "combat marksmanship" once you have gotten your concealed handgun unconcealed.

    As ProShooter is a highly respected trainer, as well as someone who teaches a class so you can get your CHP, I he he will start advertising courses like the ones I have mentioned - if for no other reason than to give a modicum of peace of mind that the yahoos that are going to be legally packing heat in our schools might have more than half an idea of what to do and some experience in doing it.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    This is easy. Remove the Gsfz and call it a day.

    If you stop talking long enough to listen, you can hear the world... -My Father-

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    Regular Member Walt_Kowalski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpguy View Post
    This is easy. Remove the Gsfz and call it a day.
    +1
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
    -- George Washington

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    HB 114: Possession of firearm on PRIVATE school property

    Submitted by Delegate Mark Cole:

    Poll here: http://news.fredericksburg.com/newsd...set-gun-rules/

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?141+sum+HB114

    Possession of firearm, etc., on school property; private or religious schools. Eliminates the crimes of possession on the property of a private or religious elementary, middle, or high school; a school bus owned or operated by such school; or any property being used for functions or extracurricular activities sponsored by such school of a stun weapon, knife, or other weapon (currently a Class 1 misdemeanor) or a firearm (currently a Class 6 felony). The bill does not affect the criminal penalties for the possession of such weapons on public school property.

    TFred

    ETA: Of course this doesn't do anything to fix the GFSZA, so one would need to have a license to possess the firearm... problematic in states such as Virginia, which do not issue such licenses.
    Last edited by TFred; 12-20-2013 at 02:17 AM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Submitted by Delegate Mark Cole:

    Poll here: http://news.fredericksburg.com/newsd...set-gun-rules/

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?141+sum+HB114

    Possession of firearm, etc., on school property; private or religious schools. Eliminates the crimes of possession on the property of a private or religious elementary, middle, or high school; a school bus owned or operated by such school; or any property being used for functions or extracurricular activities sponsored by such school of a stun weapon, knife, or other weapon (currently a Class 1 misdemeanor) or a firearm (currently a Class 6 felony). The bill does not affect the criminal penalties for the possession of such weapons on public school property.

    TFred

    ETA: Of course this doesn't do anything to fix the GFSZA, so one would need to have a license to possess the firearm... problematic in states such as Virginia, which do not issue such licenses.
    Wonder why the divide, why the distinction.

    Would be good to eliminate GFSZ entirely.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  17. #17
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Wonder why the divide, why the distinction.

    .

    Perhaps due to something like this...

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...ool-not-shown/
    James Reynolds

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  18. #18
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    Perhaps due to something like this...

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...ool-not-shown/
    ^^^ This just makes so much sense. We take care to protect just about everything in our lives, yet we blindly turn the most precious aspect of all -- our children -- over to the "care" of a liberal, progressive, state-run public school system where they are all but unprotected, ready prey for the next mentally unbalanced person who knows he will not be prevented from unleashing his carnage.

    Why?
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  19. #19
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Oh I understand wanting to protect the children.

    What I do NOT understand is why a politician would single out private schools for the change and not include all schools.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  20. #20
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Oh I understand wanting to protect the children.

    What I do NOT understand is why a politician would single out private schools for the change and not include all schools.
    From the article, Cole answers this question:

    Cole said he doesn’t think the state should regulate weapons policies for private schools.

    “I just think on private property, it should be up to the property owners or the people who run the school to make a decision whether they want to let guns on their property or not,” Cole said. “The state should not really dictate that for private property.”

    When you think about it, this makes sense, for what other private property does the state dictate you may not possess guns? In this case, even the property owners themselves may not carry.

    TFred

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    From the article, Cole answers this question:
    Cole said he doesn’t think the state should regulate weapons policies for private schools.

    “I just think on private property, it should be up to the property owners or the people who run the school to make a decision whether they want to let guns on their property or not,” Cole said. “The state should not really dictate that for private property.”

    When you think about it, this makes sense, for what other private property does the state dictate you may not possess guns? In this case, even the property owners themselves may not carry.

    TFred
    The Commonwealth's involvement with private school operation is more involved than just that. Teacher certification, sports, construction standards to name a few.

    Should a private school not adhere to the same building codes as public schools or be able to compete in certain sports w/o safety equipment because they are private?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Submitted by Delegate Mark Cole:

    Poll here: http://news.fredericksburg.com/newsd...set-gun-rules/

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?141+sum+HB114

    Possession of firearm, etc., on school property; private or religious schools. Eliminates the crimes of possession on the property of a private or religious elementary, middle, or high school; a school bus owned or operated by such school; or any property being used for functions or extracurricular activities sponsored by such school of a stun weapon, knife, or other weapon (currently a Class 1 misdemeanor) or a firearm (currently a Class 6 felony). The bill does not affect the criminal penalties for the possession of such weapons on public school property.

    TFred

    ETA: Of course this doesn't do anything to fix the GFSZA, so one would need to have a license to possess the firearm... problematic in states such as Virginia, which do not issue such licenses.
    We're losing the poll by almost a hundred votes!

    Do you support the bill proposed by Cole?
    No 60.45% (240 votes)
    Yes 36.78% (146 votes)
    Not sure 2.77% (11 votes)

    TFred

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    There is something insidious in this bill. IMO, it continues the divide and conquer theory from the anti's playbook.

    Looking at the current situation, we are not allowed to carry on the property of K-12 schools whether public or parochial/private.

    Who truly believes that private schools would jump on the bandwagon to condone carry in their facilities - not the ivory tower leaders who have fought tooth and nail to prevent that. So what harm you say? Consider that if/when we get the present condition changed to enable carry in/on K-12 schools, such will then only apply to public schools. We will have furthered the separate but equal divide. Henceforth, any new statute improving conditions in K-12 would not apply to private schools.

    I don't want freedom of choice - I want freedom from restriction. There is a HUGE difference between the two.

    Private schools/property is a false flag - it masquerades as a friend of RKBA while widening the gap. If this is about the children, then afford them all the benefit of real protection.

    I do NOT like this bill. I do not see it as it is purported to be.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  24. #24
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    There is something insidious in this bill. IMO, it continues the divide and conquer theory from the anti's playbook.

    Looking at the current situation, we are not allowed to carry on the property of K-12 schools whether public or parochial/private.

    Who truly believes that private schools would jump on the bandwagon to condone carry in their facilities - not the ivory tower leaders who have fought tooth and nail to prevent that. So what harm you say? Consider that if/when we get the present condition changed to enable carry in/on K-12 schools, such will then only apply to public schools. We will have furthered the separate but equal divide. Henceforth, any new statute improving conditions in K-12 would not apply to private schools.

    I don't want freedom of choice - I want freedom from restriction. There is a HUGE difference between the two.

    Private schools/property is a false flag - it masquerades as a friend of RKBA while widening the gap. If this is about the children, then afford them all the benefit of real protection.

    I do NOT like this bill. I do not see it as it is purported to be.
    From what I've seen so far Grape.....Trojan Horse bills will be common this year. We need to be very careful before endorsing any of them.

  25. #25
    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    There is something insidious in this bill. IMO, it continues the divide and conquer theory from the anti's playbook.

    Looking at the current situation, we are not allowed to carry on the property of K-12 schools whether public or parochial/private.

    Who truly believes that private schools would jump on the bandwagon to condone carry in their facilities - not the ivory tower leaders who have fought tooth and nail to prevent that. So what harm you say? Consider that if/when we get the present condition changed to enable carry in/on K-12 schools, such will then only apply to public schools. We will have furthered the separate but equal divide. Henceforth, any new statute improving conditions in K-12 would not apply to private schools.

    I don't want freedom of choice - I want freedom from restriction. There is a HUGE difference between the two.

    Private schools/property is a false flag - it masquerades as a friend of RKBA while widening the gap. If this is about the children, then afford them all the benefit of real protection.

    I do NOT like this bill. I do not see it as it is purported to be.
    Wow... my perspective is the opposite.

    I want to eliminate schools being gun free zones.

    With the new administration in Richmond, do you think that's going to happen this year? I certainly don't.

    If I don't think I can score a touchdown on a given play, I'll try to score a first down. If successful, I'm that much closer to the end zone for the following play.

    If we can't get the right to carry prohibition lifted for all schools, let's try to get it lifted for some. We'll be that much closer to lifting it for all when we can improve the line-up of players in Richmond in the future. We'd already have to carry in schools in VA, and could just broaden the the circle some more to include public schools.

    I think there'd be a good number of private schools that allowed carry. The private schools I'm familiar with (like the one my kids attend) are very conservative. My daughter has a classmate who is an accomplished shooter, shooting under the school's name, and the school posted a proud post of facebook recently touting one of her match wins. I think Sheriff Diggs recent had a son graduate from there as well. At sporting events, I'm often talking guns with other dads.

    Anyway, I ask that you keep an open mind toward this bill, as I will too.

    For now, I see it as a way to move us further in the right direction, until that time when we can get all of what we want.

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