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Thread: Another isolated incident -- "you gonna shoot me?" "uh, I guess so"

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    Another isolated incident -- "you gonna shoot me?" "uh, I guess so"

    “I didn’t hear him say anything like, ‘Get down on your hands and knees,’ you know? I didn’t hear him say anything. He just started shooting,” one witness said. “He emptied the gun on him… Boom, boom, boom.Six shots — five or six.”

    Another witness, Mohammad Haidarasl, says that Redus’ last words were “Oh, you’re gonna shoot me?” said to Carter in a sarcastic off-handed tone. Haidarasl added that he heard the officer saying “Stop resisting, stop resisting.”


    http://www.infowars.com/cop-kills-un...castic-remark/

    And the old "stop resisting" statements .... they have not figured out that yelling it does not make it so ...

    (yeah, its an infowars link) ... give your gun to a cop? Tell a cop you have a gun? Homey don't play that.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 12-14-2013 at 06:20 AM.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Murder.
    Advocate freedom please

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    I prefur the term murrdurr.
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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    I prefur the term murrdurr.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    I prefur the term murrdurr.
    Sounds to me a bit like Mordor.....crap we seem to be getting to the point of having the seeing eye of Sauron.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    One does not simply post a emoticon.

    One does not simply make a LOTR reference based on a furry reference.

    One does not simply *boot to da head for over-using the meme*.
    I'm a proud openly gay open carrier~
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    Regular Member BrianB's Avatar
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    One of these days a cop is going to go for his gun when there is no lawful justification for doing so and and an armed citizen is going to out draw him and wax his azz. When it happens I hope I'm on that jury.
    Last edited by BrianB; 12-16-2013 at 11:15 AM.
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    However, the San Antonio Express-News notes that Carter has only been in the job two-and-a-half years, after working for eight different law enforcement agencies in the same number of years.
    Perhaps you shouldn't make conclusions from unverified statements, but you can certainly draw inferences from them. If Officer Carter didn't move to a better paying job, then I'm certainly going to suspect he was told to 'leave or get fired'.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 12-16-2013 at 03:23 PM.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    I was trying to avoid this thread since I know the beginning middle and end..... but does anyone else have any other cites or info then "info wars" ?

    Falls I know you cited something from a paper can I post the link? Thanks brother

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    I apologize falls I just read the info wars garbage and saw you pulled the quote from there. I shoudve read before I asked foe a cite from you.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    I apologize falls I just read the info wars garbage and saw you pulled the quote from there. I shoudve read before I asked foe a cite from you.


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    I did note it was an infowars source .... now you are an infowars fan, there is no turning back....lol

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    Regular Member BrianB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    I was trying to avoid this thread since I know the beginning middle and end..... but does anyone else have any other cites or info then "info wars" ?

    Falls I know you cited something from a paper can I post the link? Thanks brother
    Googled "San Antonio Express-News carter shot" (without the quotes).

    First result was: link

    I know you're on a phone (same phone as I have) so copy/paste to Google isn't as easy as we'd like it to be. Hope it helps.
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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    I was trying to avoid this thread since I know the beginning middle and end..... but does anyone else have any other cites or info then "info wars" ?

    Falls I know you cited something from a paper can I post the link? Thanks brother

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    Chase your own sticks. You want to build a counter to what's been posted, do the leg work.
    He's busy..on a case...

    http://blogs.westword.com/cafesociet...california.jpg

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    Yawn, even assuming arguendo the claims are true and that this was a bad shoot, it's still incredibly obvious that american police are remarkably restrained in their use of deadly force, based on the # of shooting by officer incidents as a percentage of violent felon arrests, or any other metric you choose to use.

    I've posted the stats over and over . Like NYPD, where in 2010 there were 33 shootings (of a suspect, not including of an animal or etc.)in a city of 8 million and 35,000 cops!

    Again, most agencies have higher stats (mine included, but mine also has a much higher officer getting shot rate as well)

    Most allegedly bad shoots, given time to fully investigate, gather physical evidence etc. turn out to be good shoots, also , fwiw.

    If cops were so frequently making bad shoots, you'd think that with the advent of cell phone cameras, dashboard cameras etc. they'd be popping up hear and there with video proof, but it hasn't happened

    despite the army of cell phone cameras pointed at us day in and day out as well as dashboard cameras, the rate of bad shoots is still very low

  16. #16
    Regular Member BrianB's Avatar
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    OK, I read the MySA article. It adds some more information -- indicating the driver took the officer's baton and beat him with it -- but it also says the officer got the baton back before the shooting happened.

    Assuming for the moment that the baton part is factual, if the officer shot the guy while the guy had the baton and was beating him, I'd probably be just fine with that (unless the officer did something with that baton first that warranted having his bell run with it).

    FUQ:
    A struggle ensued and Redus was able to take away Carter's baton and strike him several times before Carter got the baton back, Pruitt said evidence showed.

    Redus broke free and began to walk away, which is when Carter warned him to stop or he would shoot, Carter told authorities.

    Carter said Redus began charging him with his hand raised. Carter fired his gun six times, hitting Redus with five bullets.
    None of that sounds like a justifiable shooting to me.

    This quote kinda irritates me:

    “I think everyone should just allow the facts to become more clear,” said Florida State University Police Chief David Perry, president-elect of the International Association of Campus Law Enforcement Administrators. “The totality of the situation has to be taken into account. That officer has state training and he has to articulate why he took the steps he did.”
    If the roles were reversed and the driver shot the officer under the exact same circumstances I don't think anybody would be telling the public to be patient and wait for all the facts to come in before judging the shooter.

    Will be interesting to see how this story unfolds.
    Last edited by BrianB; 12-16-2013 at 01:33 PM.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianB View Post
    OK, I read the MySA article. It adds some more information -- indicating the driver took the officer's baton and beat him with it -- but it also says the officer got the baton back before the shooting happened.

    Assuming for the moment that the baton part is factual, if the officer shot the guy while the guy had the baton and was beating him, I'd probably be just fine with that (unless the officer did something with that baton first that warranted having his bell run with it).

    FUQ:


    None of that sounds like a justifiable shooting to me.

    This quote kinda irritates me:



    If the roles were reversed and the driver shot the officer under the exact same circumstances I don't think anybody would be telling the public to be patient and wait for all the facts to come in before judging the shooter.

    Will be interesting to see how this story unfolds.
    Thank you Brian.... I was waiting for this exact info to come out. I appreciate you finding and posting it.

    So anyone donating to that "I posted a thread meant to encite reaction and it was based on utter bs" fund? We could donate it to wounded warriors.

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  18. #18
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    Chase your own sticks. You want to build a counter to what's been posted, do the leg work.
    Its not even worth me chasing the "sticks". Its utter bs. If your head wasn't so clouded with hate you'd see that at face value.

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    lol on infowars, btw

    and the anticop bigot brigade will continue their illogical anti-cop screeds while the overwhelming majority of society recognizes the obvious and goes on day to day

    arguing with fringe belief wackos is like arguing with flat earthers, they just get more and more ridiculous, the more you press. THe stats don't lie. Cops are extremely restrained vis a vis deadly force.

    Fwiw, we did an incident debrief of a case we had a couple of weeks ago, where the grand result of thorough investigation was that the cops on scene SHOULD have shot at two distinct points in the incident but didn't. Iow, they were OVERrestrained. fortunately, that did not result in injury to any persons (their not taking out the suspect at those point), at least in part because several brave officers extricated a hostage at risk to themselves, and w/o shots fired.

    The great thing about citizen's academies and ride-alongs is that more and more people see the REALITY of police work, and the more that are exposed to the day to day realities, on average, the greater they support us. We've seen that over and over with cop critics who have either attended citizen academies or police ride-alongs. When they do FATS (firearm training simulator) training for instance, they realize how difficult shoiot/don't shoot situations can be and have great respect for the seasoned cops when they see how they perform on FATS, or in the street during ridealongs

    despite the proliferation of cameras in the hands of the public, dashboard cameras, and even body worn cameras (in more and more agencies), there hasn;t been a revelation of more bad shoots. because most shoots are good, the videos have only helped us

    im reminded of the body camera video of the shooting of a dog, where AFTER the owner saw the video of the officer being attacked, he changed his mind and acknowledged the cop should have shot
    http://www.policeone.com/police-prod...shot-pit-bull/

    another


    http://www.katu.com/news/local/Caugh...171397761.html




    "To me, it sounded like you saw the dog, he came up, he came down, then you shot him," said O'Hare, speaking to the officer. "But...I would've done the same thing. I swear I would've."

    In a Facebook poll, most viewers agreed the officer did the right thing.

    "I'm sorry from the bottom of my heart that that police officer had to deal with that," O'Hare said. "I'm sorry, I'm really sorry. I wish I could take it back."


    the more videoing of cops there is, the more stories like this.

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    Regular Member BrianB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    If cops were so frequently making bad shoots, you'd think that with the advent of cell phone cameras, dashboard cameras etc. they'd be popping up hear and there with video proof, but it hasn't happened

    despite the army of cell phone cameras pointed at us day in and day out as well as dashboard cameras, the rate of bad shoots is still very low
    I would suspect that, human nature being what it is, if someone knows they are being video recorded, they might be less inclined to do bad things. I'd be interested to know, in the cases where it was a confirmed and adjudicated "bad shoot", how many of them were in instances where there was a dash cam or other recording device present. I'd guess the number will be exceedingly small. Given the small sample size to begin with it would be risky to try to draw any conclusions from those statistics, but one might argue that pervasive LE use of lapel cams to record all LE/citizen encounters would reduce "bad shoots" (and other inappropriate use of force) and provide evidence to support the officers lawful conduct when justifiable use-of-force incidents do occur. Even if the public were willing to pay for the cost of such equipment I wonder if the police unions would oppose it.
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    I apologize falls I just read the info wars garbage and saw you pulled the quote from there. I shoudve read before I asked foe a cite from you.
    Actually....
    I just typed the words Cpl Christopher Carter into a websearch engine. It returned several results (aka not all were infowars.com).
    For instance
    DailyMail.co.uk, ABCNews.com, CNN news, and Fox news.
    The photo posted came from USAprepares.com.

    Now, USAprepares says,
    The policeman had nine law enforcement jobs within seven years
    instead of 8 for 8. In such cases, I'll always post the more conservative numbers.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 12-16-2013 at 03:27 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Actually....
    I just typed the words Cpl Christopher Carter into a websearch engine. It returned several results (aka not all were infowars.com).
    For instance
    DailyMail.co.uk, ABCNews.com, CNN news, and Fox news.
    The photo posted came from USAprepares.com.

    Now, USAprepares says, instead of 8 for 8. In such cases, I'll always post the more conservative numbers.
    Oh ok. Again I apologize for assuming you grabbed it from there then. I just saw that exact piece in the article and assumed. Bad on me...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianB View Post

    If the roles were reversed and the driver shot the officer under the exact same circumstances I don't think anybody would be telling the public to be patient and wait for all the facts to come in before judging the shooter.
    If the driver had shot the officer then the back up officers would have shot the driver dead immediately upon arriving on scene.

    People who shoot cops don't often make it home for dinner with the wife and kids.

    People who shoot cops don't get to take some personal time to regroup and settle themselves and have a scheduled interview 3 days later.

    In this day and age no one should trust the cops version of events because police lie about almost everything.

  24. #24
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PALO View Post
    Yawn, even assuming arguendo the claims are true and that this was a bad shoot, it's still incredibly obvious that american police are remarkably restrained in their use of deadly force, based on the # of shooting by officer incidents as a percentage of violent felon arrests, or any other metric you choose to use.

    I've posted the stats over and over . Like NYPD, where in 2010 there were 33 shootings (of a suspect, not including of an animal or etc.)in a city of 8 million and 35,000 cops!

    Again, most agencies have higher stats (mine included, but mine also has a much higher officer getting shot rate as well)

    Most allegedly bad shoots, given time to fully investigate, gather physical evidence etc. turn out to be good shoots, also , fwiw.

    If cops were so frequently making bad shoots, you'd think that with the advent of cell phone cameras, dashboard cameras etc. they'd be popping up hear and there with video proof, but it hasn't happened

    despite the army of cell phone cameras pointed at us day in and day out as well as dashboard cameras, the rate of bad shoots is still very low
    Yawn, even if this cop just murdered this kid, who cares? Doesn't happen very often. Just let it go...

    And besides, most bad shoots turn out to be good shoots because the agency of the shooter investigated it and said so...

    Oh, and actually, it has happened. More cops are smart than cops that are corrupt/evil willed. That means there are bad cops that are smart. That means they aren't likely to get caught by the public doing something wrong in such a scenario where the public can so astoundingly prove their guilt that no cover-up is possible. But, still has happened.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Yawn, even if this cop just murdered this kid, who cares? Doesn't happen very often. Just let it go...

    And besides, most bad shoots turn out to be good shoots because the agency of the shooter investigated it and said so...

    Oh, and actually, it has happened. More cops are smart than cops that are corrupt/evil willed. That means there are bad cops that are smart. That means they aren't likely to get caught by the public doing something wrong in such a scenario where the public can so astoundingly prove their guilt that no cover-up is possible. But, still has happened.
    Testilying is pervasive in the system. DOJ study even says so.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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