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Another isolated incident -- "you gonna shoot me?" "uh, I guess so"

davidmcbeth

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Another isolated incident -- "you gonna shoot me?" "uh, I guess so"

“I didn’t hear him say anything like, ‘Get down on your hands and knees,’ you know? I didn’t hear him say anything. He just started shooting,” one witness said. “He emptied the gun on him… Boom, boom, boom.Six shots — five or six.”

Another witness, Mohammad Haidarasl, says that Redus’ last words were “Oh, you’re gonna shoot me?” said to Carter in a sarcastic off-handed tone. Haidarasl added that he heard the officer saying “Stop resisting, stop resisting.”


http://www.infowars.com/cop-kills-unarmed-man-after-sarcastic-remark/

And the old "stop resisting" statements .... they have not figured out that yelling it does not make it so ...

(yeah, its an infowars link) ... give your gun to a cop? Tell a cop you have a gun? Homey don't play that.
 
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BrianB

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One of these days a cop is going to go for his gun when there is no lawful justification for doing so and and an armed citizen is going to out draw him and wax his azz. When it happens I hope I'm on that jury.
 
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Fallschirjmäger

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However, the San Antonio Express-News notes that Carter has only been in the job two-and-a-half years, after working for eight different law enforcement agencies in the same number of years.
Perhaps you shouldn't make conclusions from unverified statements, but you can certainly draw inferences from them. If Officer Carter didn't move to a better paying job, then I'm certainly going to suspect he was told to 'leave or get fired'.
article-2524083-1A16377F00000578-55_306x423.jpg
 
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Primus

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I was trying to avoid this thread since I know the beginning middle and end..... but does anyone else have any other cites or info then "info wars" ?

Falls I know you cited something from a paper can I post the link? Thanks brother

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Primus

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I apologize falls I just read the info wars garbage and saw you pulled the quote from there. I shoudve read before I asked foe a cite from you.


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davidmcbeth

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I apologize falls I just read the info wars garbage and saw you pulled the quote from there. I shoudve read before I asked foe a cite from you.


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I did note it was an infowars source .... now you are an infowars fan, there is no turning back....lol
 

BrianB

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I was trying to avoid this thread since I know the beginning middle and end..... but does anyone else have any other cites or info then "info wars" ?

Falls I know you cited something from a paper can I post the link? Thanks brother

Googled "San Antonio Express-News carter shot" (without the quotes).

First result was: link

I know you're on a phone (same phone as I have) so copy/paste to Google isn't as easy as we'd like it to be. Hope it helps.
 

Fuller Malarkey

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I was trying to avoid this thread since I know the beginning middle and end..... but does anyone else have any other cites or info then "info wars" ?

Falls I know you cited something from a paper can I post the link? Thanks brother

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Chase your own sticks. You want to build a counter to what's been posted, do the leg work.
 

PALO

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Yawn, even assuming arguendo the claims are true and that this was a bad shoot, it's still incredibly obvious that american police are remarkably restrained in their use of deadly force, based on the # of shooting by officer incidents as a percentage of violent felon arrests, or any other metric you choose to use.

I've posted the stats over and over . Like NYPD, where in 2010 there were 33 shootings (of a suspect, not including of an animal or etc.)in a city of 8 million and 35,000 cops!

Again, most agencies have higher stats (mine included, but mine also has a much higher officer getting shot rate as well)

Most allegedly bad shoots, given time to fully investigate, gather physical evidence etc. turn out to be good shoots, also , fwiw.

If cops were so frequently making bad shoots, you'd think that with the advent of cell phone cameras, dashboard cameras etc. they'd be popping up hear and there with video proof, but it hasn't happened

despite the army of cell phone cameras pointed at us day in and day out as well as dashboard cameras, the rate of bad shoots is still very low
 

BrianB

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OK, I read the MySA article. It adds some more information -- indicating the driver took the officer's baton and beat him with it -- but it also says the officer got the baton back before the shooting happened.

Assuming for the moment that the baton part is factual, if the officer shot the guy while the guy had the baton and was beating him, I'd probably be just fine with that (unless the officer did something with that baton first that warranted having his bell run with it).

FUQ:
A struggle ensued and Redus was able to take away Carter's baton and strike him several times before Carter got the baton back, Pruitt said evidence showed.

Redus broke free and began to walk away, which is when Carter warned him to stop or he would shoot, Carter told authorities.

Carter said Redus began charging him with his hand raised. Carter fired his gun six times, hitting Redus with five bullets.

None of that sounds like a justifiable shooting to me.

This quote kinda irritates me:

“I think everyone should just allow the facts to become more clear,” said Florida State University Police Chief David Perry, president-elect of the International Association of Campus Law Enforcement Administrators. “The totality of the situation has to be taken into account. That officer has state training and he has to articulate why he took the steps he did.”

If the roles were reversed and the driver shot the officer under the exact same circumstances I don't think anybody would be telling the public to be patient and wait for all the facts to come in before judging the shooter.

Will be interesting to see how this story unfolds.
 
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Primus

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OK, I read the MySA article. It adds some more information -- indicating the driver took the officer's baton and beat him with it -- but it also says the officer got the baton back before the shooting happened.

Assuming for the moment that the baton part is factual, if the officer shot the guy while the guy had the baton and was beating him, I'd probably be just fine with that (unless the officer did something with that baton first that warranted having his bell run with it).

FUQ:


None of that sounds like a justifiable shooting to me.

This quote kinda irritates me:



If the roles were reversed and the driver shot the officer under the exact same circumstances I don't think anybody would be telling the public to be patient and wait for all the facts to come in before judging the shooter.

Will be interesting to see how this story unfolds.

Thank you Brian.... I was waiting for this exact info to come out. I appreciate you finding and posting it.

So anyone donating to that "I posted a thread meant to encite reaction and it was based on utter bs" fund? We could donate it to wounded warriors.

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Primus

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Chase your own sticks. You want to build a counter to what's been posted, do the leg work.

Its not even worth me chasing the "sticks". Its utter bs. If your head wasn't so clouded with hate you'd see that at face value.

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PALO

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lol on infowars, btw

and the anticop bigot brigade will continue their illogical anti-cop screeds while the overwhelming majority of society recognizes the obvious and goes on day to day

arguing with fringe belief wackos is like arguing with flat earthers, they just get more and more ridiculous, the more you press. THe stats don't lie. Cops are extremely restrained vis a vis deadly force.

Fwiw, we did an incident debrief of a case we had a couple of weeks ago, where the grand result of thorough investigation was that the cops on scene SHOULD have shot at two distinct points in the incident but didn't. Iow, they were OVERrestrained. fortunately, that did not result in injury to any persons (their not taking out the suspect at those point), at least in part because several brave officers extricated a hostage at risk to themselves, and w/o shots fired.

The great thing about citizen's academies and ride-alongs is that more and more people see the REALITY of police work, and the more that are exposed to the day to day realities, on average, the greater they support us. We've seen that over and over with cop critics who have either attended citizen academies or police ride-alongs. When they do FATS (firearm training simulator) training for instance, they realize how difficult shoiot/don't shoot situations can be and have great respect for the seasoned cops when they see how they perform on FATS, or in the street during ridealongs

despite the proliferation of cameras in the hands of the public, dashboard cameras, and even body worn cameras (in more and more agencies), there hasn;t been a revelation of more bad shoots. because most shoots are good, the videos have only helped us

im reminded of the body camera video of the shooting of a dog, where AFTER the owner saw the video of the officer being attacked, he changed his mind and acknowledged the cop should have shot
http://www.policeone.com/police-pro...logizes-to-officer-who-fatally-shot-pit-bull/

another


http://www.katu.com/news/local/Caught-on-camera-Dog-attacks-police-officer-in-Idaho-171397761.html




"To me, it sounded like you saw the dog, he came up, he came down, then you shot him," said O'Hare, speaking to the officer. "But...I would've done the same thing. I swear I would've."

In a Facebook poll, most viewers agreed the officer did the right thing.

"I'm sorry from the bottom of my heart that that police officer had to deal with that," O'Hare said. "I'm sorry, I'm really sorry. I wish I could take it back."


the more videoing of cops there is, the more stories like this.
 

BrianB

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If cops were so frequently making bad shoots, you'd think that with the advent of cell phone cameras, dashboard cameras etc. they'd be popping up hear and there with video proof, but it hasn't happened

despite the army of cell phone cameras pointed at us day in and day out as well as dashboard cameras, the rate of bad shoots is still very low

I would suspect that, human nature being what it is, if someone knows they are being video recorded, they might be less inclined to do bad things. I'd be interested to know, in the cases where it was a confirmed and adjudicated "bad shoot", how many of them were in instances where there was a dash cam or other recording device present. I'd guess the number will be exceedingly small. Given the small sample size to begin with it would be risky to try to draw any conclusions from those statistics, but one might argue that pervasive LE use of lapel cams to record all LE/citizen encounters would reduce "bad shoots" (and other inappropriate use of force) and provide evidence to support the officers lawful conduct when justifiable use-of-force incidents do occur. Even if the public were willing to pay for the cost of such equipment I wonder if the police unions would oppose it.
 
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