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Thread: Cops ... not looking for this one - acting like 5yr olds with deaf folks ...

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    Cops ... not looking for this one - acting like 5yr olds with deaf folks ...

    http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S...l#.UqxCWmePelt



    In the lapel camera video, the officer says: "Your attitude dictates how I treat you."
    Actually incorrect, the LAW dictates this ...

    I have several deaf friends ... and this is exactly how they respond ... they are not 1000% deaf .... but they just hear low frequencies and respond that they did did not understand what I just said .. annoying? Can be sometimes.
    Grounds to slam the person on the ground? Most definitely not.

    Cop needs to to find a NEW JOB. He has a mental inclination for violence & would never get a permit in my state....so how can he be a cop?

    And a previous story about a deaf person who made the mistake of thinking that the cops care about anything other than their own pensions:
    http://www.infowars.com/police-taze-...-called-9-1-1/
    zap zap zap .... lesson learned?
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 12-14-2013 at 06:48 AM.

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    The person in involved in this responded to the officers commands with no I am deaf. Not no I can't hear or understand what you were saying.

    She is using her partial deafness as an excuse not to do something she doesn't want to. She was facing away and answered.

    Just like some use race as an excuse some used disabilities as one for that is the reason you are picking on me because I am what ever.

    This isn't a comment on the use of force that is another matter.

    Over the years on the job I have come into contact with hard of hearing and deaf people received training on communicating with them. Oh one stop I had to write all of it the why and what is going to happen.

    I had one person reused to communicate other then mouthing I am deaf. I asked in writing if she needed a sigh language interrupter she shook her head yes.

    When she learned it would take a hour and half to get one to response to the scene she decided she couldn't wait that long and we wrote what was needed..

    Almost the same I had a Quebecer say she couldn't speak English. When I told her boss over the phone that she was going to jail, then after talking to her boss she could speak and understand English very well.

    Some people well and do use any reason and excuse.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 12-14-2013 at 09:24 AM.
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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    The person in involved in this responded to the officers commands with no I am deaf. Not no I can't hear or understand what you were saying.

    She is using her partial deafness as an excuse not to do something she doesn't want to. She was facing away and answered.

    Just like some use race as an excuse some used disabilities as one for that is the reason you are picking on me because I am what ever.

    This isn't a comment on the use of force that is another matter.
    Even if that's true and she was intentionally defying the officer's commands, the officer is still wrong, and still inclined to violence, and still has an ego problem, and still needs to find a new job...

    "APD charged Case with resisting arrest and obstructing justice, but those charges were eventually dropped. There is no evidence Case did anything wrong before police arrived at her home, other than being a noisy neighbor who moved around her furniture too often."

    This just further solidifies what I've said. He apparently had no reason to arrest her, or probably even detain her, in the first place. If that is the case she probably didn't have any legal obligation to follow any of his directions in the first place. This is an example of how police often make it so that it's best to just not even answer the door for them. For all you know, your neighbor could have simply made a noise complaint and now the police are there to body slam you and take you to jail. Even if the charges end up getting dropped, enough damage has been done. You've had several hours to a day or so taken out of your life - who knows what you might have had planned or what kind of responsibilities you needed to take care of in that time, you were arrested and humiliated, and you now have an arrest record which can be extremely damaging. In Texas, just being charged with a misdemeanor crime is enough for a suspension of your CHL.

    The cop was in the wrong, the cop was in the wrong, the cop was in the wrong. He obviously has issues, and is incapable of conducting himself in a controlled, professional manner.

    Don't get me wrong, perhaps she did act like a child. That doesn't justify the officer's actions, though - they can both be wrong.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 12-14-2013 at 09:19 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Even if that's true and she was intentionally defying the officer's commands, the officer is still wrong, and still inclined to violence, and still has an ego problem, and still needs to find a new job...

    "APD charged Case with resisting arrest and obstructing justice, but those charges were eventually dropped. There is no evidence Case did anything wrong before police arrived at her home, other than being a noisy neighbor who moved around her furniture too often."

    This just further solidifies what I've said. He apparently had no reason to arrest her, or probably even detain her, in the first place. If that is the case she probably didn't have any legal obligation to follow any of his directions in the first place. This is an example of how police often make it so that it's best to just not even answer the door for them. For all you know, your neighbor could have simply made a noise complaint and now the police are there to body slam you and take you to jail. Even if the charges end up getting dropped, enough damage has been done. You've had several hours to a day or so taken out of your life - who knows what you might have had planned or what kind of responsibilities you needed to take care of in that time, you were arrested and humiliated, and you now have an arrest record which can be extremely damaging. In Texas, just being charged with a misdemeanor crime is enough for a suspension of your CHL.

    The cop was in the wrong, the cop was in the wrong, the cop was in the wrong. He obviously has issues, and is incapable of conducting himself in a controlled, professional manner.

    Don't get me wrong, perhaps she did act like a child. That doesn't justify the officer's actions, though - they can both be wrong.
    Good alternate argument ... +1

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    The non crimes of resisting arrest and obstruction.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Apparently, deaf people are supposed to be handcuffed with their hands in front of them, so "no, I'm deaf" makes perfect sense as a response to being asked to turn around. Turning around would also make it close to impossible to hear subsequent commands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    The person in involved in this responded to the officers commands with no I am deaf. Not no I can't hear or understand what you were saying.

    She is using her partial deafness as an excuse not to do something she doesn't want to. She was facing away and answered.

    Just like some use race as an excuse some used disabilities as one for that is the reason you are picking on me because I am what ever.

    This isn't a comment on the use of force that is another matter.

    <snip>
    No, the use of force is a byproduct of the contact. It is disingenuous to separate the contact and subsequent violent physical forced used by the cop.

    How about this? The cop displays the cuffs and says "These, or not, your choice. Let's talk."

    Why do cops feel the need to use violent physical force in a situation such as described in the op linked article?

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    No, the use of force is a byproduct of the contact. It is disingenuous to separate the contact and subsequent violent physical forced used by the cop.

    How about this? The cop displays the cuffs and says "These, or not, your choice. Let's talk."

    Why do cops feel the need to use violent physical force in a situation such as described in the op linked article?
    I think what it boils down to is often about the same reason that criminals often resort to that sort of behavior. Immature and uncontrolled emotion, anger, ego and adrinaline. Except they're a good person, so they joined the police, and are just "channeling" it into something "productive"
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    I think what it boils down to is often about the same reason that criminals often resort to that sort of behavior. Immature and uncontrolled emotion, anger, ego and adrinaline. Except they're a good person, so they joined the police, and are just "channeling" it into something "productive"
    Cute

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Cute

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    Why else would they engage in the same behavior, if not for the same reasons? Sure, it's possible. So tell me Primus, for what reasons, that are different reasons than the reasons criminals do it, do some cops engage in criminal violent behavior? I'm all ears.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Why else would they engage in the same behavior, if not for the same reasons? Sure, it's possible. So tell me Primus, for what reasons, that are different reasons than the reasons criminals do it, do some cops engage in criminal violent behavior? I'm all ears.
    Define violent criminal behavior please. And provide example of possible. Not a cite just and example so we are clear on what you mean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Define violent criminal behavior please. And provide example of possible. Not a cite just and example so we are clear on what you mean.

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    Ummm. The words are pretty easily defined. Its not like there's any difficulty in this. Behavior that is both violent and criminal.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Define violent criminal behavior please. And provide example of possible. Not a cite just and example so we are clear on what you mean.

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    you should be banned from this site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onus View Post
    you should be banned from this site.
    What on earth are you talking about?

    No, no, no, no.

    Every time he posts his statist views, it gives the pro-liberty guys a chance to lay out pro-liberty principles to readers who may not be familiar.

    No, we want him here.
    Last edited by Citizen; 12-17-2013 at 12:53 AM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Perhaps cops should treat citizens in relation to the actual threat.

    Do they have the right to shoot a drooling baby because of the treat of AIDS in the saliva?

    Should they slam people to the ground because of impatience?

    It's becoming common to shoot the alleged perp/victim, making it easier to transport, because you know bodies just don't take the time to resist.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    What on earth are you talking about?

    No, no, no, no.

    Every time he posts his statist views, it gives the pro-liberty guys a chance to lay out pro-liberty principles to readers who may not be familiar.

    No, we want him here.
    +1
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Hyperbole.....but you do have a minor point.

    The "force continuum" is a joke in LE. With little in the way of consequences for "skipping a few steps" there will always be some cops who jump right from "excuse me" to "flying off the top rope." I, on the other hand, witness on a regular basis cops engaging in the hazardous task of trying to stay awake, in their cruiser, parked in a church parking lot, waiting for a nitwit drive to go speeding by. The most difficult part of LE is maintaining a girlish figure.

    The bottom line, you even come close to appearing to resist arrest and that cop gets to skip, not that he will skip, some steps in the force continuum. His version is the righteous version because you appear to be resisting arrest.

    Record the event and seek a redress of wrongs. Top cops seek to have their department to be held in a positive light in their communities. When the "trust" in the local LEA is degraded, usually due to the local LEAs own misdeeds, incompetence, and arrogance, the top cop trys to transfer their bad image onto the citizenry, blame the citizenry for the LEAs misfortunes. Heard that line on a local radio station just last week.

    Most cops want nothing more than to be left alone to do their job the best they can. I would like for those cops to include running the few amongst them who tarnish the image of LE out of town on a rail, but they will not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Hyperbole.....but you do have a minor point.

    The "force continuum" is a joke in LE. With little in the way of consequences for "skipping a few steps" there will always be some cops who jump right from "excuse me" to "flying off the top rope." I, on the other hand, witness on a regular basis cops engaging in the hazardous task of trying to stay awake, in their cruiser, parked in a church parking lot, waiting for a nitwit drive to go speeding by. The most difficult part of LE is maintaining a girlish figure.

    The bottom line, you even come close to appearing to resist arrest and that cop gets to skip, not that he will skip, some steps in the force continuum. His version is the righteous version because you appear to be resisting arrest.

    Record the event and seek a redress of wrongs. Top cops seek to have their department to be held in a positive light in their communities. When the "trust" in the local LEA is degraded, usually due to the local LEAs own misdeeds, incompetence, and arrogance, the top cop trys to transfer their bad image onto the citizenry, blame the citizenry for the LEAs misfortunes. Heard that line on a local radio station just last week.

    Most cops want nothing more than to be left alone to do their job the best they can. I would like for those cops to include running the few amongst them who tarnish the image of LE out of town on a rail, but they will not.
    Oc can you please cite and explain the "force continuum" your referring to? Can you list any training you've had on said continuum? I ask because your speaking as if your an expert and can tell when or what level an officer is at. Also can you furnish the definition or resisting arrest? Again... for those of us who don't know enlighten us so we can be on the same level as you.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    And yes of I certainly will take any experience you've had with it as a source. For example ifbyouve been arrested and charged with say arresting and they explained it in court then I'd take that. Its obviously up to you if you wish to reveal such details. Thanks in advance

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    I don't know whether it is just being reported more or whether there is an actual increase in police violence. Can someone point me in the right direction to find the statistics from, say, 1947 to the present?

    Another thing that piques my curiosity, after having read of several LEOs in my state being arrested for trafficking steroids, is how many of those officers who seem to be so out of control are under the influence of what my younger friends tell me is 'roid rage? Is the use of steroids among law enforcement that common?

    This is not an attempt at bashing, but is an honest inquiry into matters this Old Man just does not understand.

    I will definitely agree, after having run into it in my military career, that there are those who will use any ploy at their command to escape the consequences of their actions. Back in 1961, when I went through Basic Combat Training, we had a group to whom English was a second language, but who had been taught English in public school, some of whom would utter the phrase, "No hablo Inglis" any time they heard something they didn't like or were given an order they did not want to obey. When a couple of them were sent to the Ft. Jackson stockade for a few days and returned to the unit, we didn't see any more of that behavior.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Oc can you please cite and explain the "force continuum" your referring to? Can you list any training you've had on said continuum? I ask because your speaking as if your an expert and can tell when or what level an officer is at. Also can you furnish the definition or resisting arrest? Again... for those of us who don't know enlighten us so we can be on the same level as you.

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    Google is your friend.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=forc...w=1680&bih=946

    Please enlighten me if these examples are not what you know to be the "levels of force" to be used once force must be used by a police officer. Google "handcuffed and beaten." Happens more than I like, but those instances must be "judged" on their own merits.

    When is it appropriate for a cop to use a level of force one or more "notches" above the "suspects" actions?

    http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Surve...214091551.html

    Beating, or striking, a citizen in restraints.....hmm. I guess it is a subjective thing and my opinion holds little weight. But my unconditional compliance is demanded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Even if that's true and she was intentionally defying the officer's commands, the officer is still wrong, and still inclined to violence, and still has an ego problem, and still needs to find a new job...

    (...snip...)

    The cop was in the wrong, the cop was in the wrong, the cop was in the wrong. He obviously has issues, and is incapable of conducting himself in a controlled, professional manner.

    Don't get me wrong, perhaps she did act like a child. That doesn't justify the officer's actions, though - they can both be wrong.
    I couldn't agree more. Nothing the woman did on the video justified the treatment she received. The individual in uniform was engaging in state-sanctioned, criminal behavior.
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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Define violent criminal behavior please. And provide example of possible. Not a cite just and example so we are clear on what you mean.

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    Hmm well here is one example. http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S...l#.UqxCWmePelt

    Look familiar?
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Google is your friend.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=forc...w=1680&bih=946

    Please enlighten me if these examples are not what you know to be the "levels of force" to be used once force must be used by a police officer. Google "handcuffed and beaten." Happens more than I like, but those instances must be "judged" on their own merits.

    When is it appropriate for a cop to use a level of force one or more "notches" above the "suspects" actions?

    http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Surve...214091551.html

    Beating, or striking, a citizen in restraints.....hmm. I guess it is a subjective thing and my opinion holds little weight. But my unconditional compliance is demanded.
    Oc...... you posted a Google photo of images.

    That doesnt respond to any other questions I asked. Wow its a pretty picture with colors...

    You've been talking on here as if you've had some kind of training on what actual my constitutes the different levels and how the process works. For example you seen to think that you need to go through every step from presence to deadly force. You don't. You can jump up and done the continuum. As situation dictates.

    I was pretty sure you were talking out of your other orifice about this just wanted to make sure. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt to show me you knew what you were talking about and weren't just spouting bad info.

    For example can you taze someone while they are handcuffed? Do you gave to use tazer before gun when faced with a knife? Where does he taser fall in that use if force continuum? Is there a different level for deploying prongs as opposed to drive stunning someone? Where does of spray fall?

    What actions constitute active versus passive resisting arrest? How do you react accordingly?

    If you want to spend sometime googling those questions then good.... at least you'll be informed next time you spout off about things your not really familiar with.

    For the record, really trying not to be a d bag. It just irritates me she guys spout about things that they don't know. Instead of actually asking questions and giving guys the chance to clear up any confusion. I wouldn't spout out information about particle physics nor plumbing then say that plumbers are animals for not plunging the toilet right.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Oc...... you posted a Google photo of images.

    That doesnt respond to any other questions I asked. Wow its a pretty picture with colors...

    You've been talking on here as if you've had some kind of training on what actual my constitutes the different levels and how the process works. For example you seen to think that you need to go through every step from presence to deadly force. You don't. You can jump up and done the continuum. As situation dictates.

    I was pretty sure you were talking out of your other orifice about this just wanted to make sure. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt to show me you knew what you were talking about and weren't just spouting bad info.

    For example can you taze someone while they are handcuffed? Do you gave to use tazer before gun when faced with a knife? Where does he taser fall in that use if force continuum? Is there a different level for deploying prongs as opposed to drive stunning someone? Where does of spray fall?

    What actions constitute active versus passive resisting arrest? How do you react accordingly?

    If you want to spend sometime googling those questions then good.... at least you'll be informed next time you spout off about things your not really familiar with.

    For the record, really trying not to be a d bag. It just irritates me she guys spout about things that they don't know. Instead of actually asking questions and giving guys the chance to clear up any confusion. I wouldn't spout out information about particle physics nor plumbing then say that plumbers are animals for not plunging the toilet right.

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    You may think what you like. Or, you could read what I write, review the images.....one of those is what the FBI does or did "teach" its agents on the levels of force and what is "required" to go to the next level.

    I never stated that a cop could not jump right to lethal force. There examples of cops using force (skipping over levels of force) where that force was not justified by the actions of the "perp."

    A cop must be able to use that force he thinks reasonable at that moment to mitigate a threat AND NOT ONE NEWTON-METER MORE OF FORCE MUST BE USED!!!!

    Your zeal to protect the cop industry is commendable. Your profession is replete with stories of bad cops being protected by the "system." There is very little evidence, if any, that a bad cop's fellow cops (the good ones) will lift a finger to boot them out of LE.

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