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Thread: Weight, and the carrying thereof

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Weight, and the carrying thereof

    This is not a rant, although I suppose a rant would be just as effective.

    Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America held their "No More Silence - End Gun Violence" rally at the Carillon in Richmond this morning. We knew it was going to happen, where it was going to happen, when it was going to happen, and why there was a need to provide a dissenting voice.

    I have reason to believe that the VCDL leadership (not just the VCDL president) was notified of the several events being scheduled across Virginia. Unless I completely missed it, there was not a peep out of VCDL about this - not even a hurried mini-VA-ALERT merely announcing the when & where information. I know that this "rally" was discussed on gun boards/gun rights boards besides OCDO, yet again unless I missed something there was no real motivational effort to get folks to go out and present a dissenting viewpoint.

    I am admitting, here in public, that I suggested that the folks who showed up at the Richmond rally at the Carillon not wear GSL stickers. There were only 5 of us there. Well, 6 if you count a 4 1/2 year old kid who ended up holding one of their signs because he was just copying what almost everybody else was doing.

    We all pretty much know why MDAFGSIA's demand for universal background checks will not keep the crazy people and the evil people and the criminals from getting guns to use in carrying out their craziness or evilness or criminal-ness. Other than that, it is pretty much a given that both we (the gun rights folks) and MDAFGSIA have the same objective in mind - preventing crazy/evil/criminal people from committing violence by the use of a gun. Some of us even extend that desire to preventing those folks from committing violence by pretty much any means more lethal than harsh words.

    But how are we doing in getting the message across that while we agree with the goal we disagree with the method(s) proposed to achieve that goal?

    Can you say "abysmal", boys and girls?

    I'm wondering if we (because I am part of this) can. And even if we could, do we understand just what that means for our side of the discussion.

    We do not need people to show up in force just on Lobby Day - but you are going to be there, aren't you?

    We need people to make the personal commitment that this matter is important enough to them that they will tell their family that showing up to voice the dissenting opinion is even more important than taking the kiddies to see Santa at the mall before the crowsds show up at lunchtime. We need people to make the personal commitment that this matter is important enough to them that they will tell their family that grocery shopping can wait until later in the day. We need people to make the personal commitment that this matter is important enough to them that they will tell their family that if agreement cannot be reached that the kiddies come along then someone has to stay home with them while the other one shows up to voice the dissenting opinion. And for the concrete thinkers out there: We need people to make the personal commitment that this matter is important enough to them that they will tell their family this is important enough that showing up is more important than just about anything else that life throws at you.

    Four and a half people cannot carry the weight for everybody else.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    It was cold and lonely out there this morning.

    Friends/supporters would have made it considerably warmer.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Would have been great if Santa and the Kids showed up.

    CCJ
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    It was cold and lonely out there this morning.

    Friends/supporters would have made it considerably warmer.
    You are on the Board of Directors. Why are you here quitely complaining about low turn-out when you personally could have done something about it?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    You are on the Board of Directors. Why are you here quitely complaining about low turn-out when you personally could have done something about it?

    VCDL has one person and one person only who is the spokesman,,,,Grapeshot did what he could as a non spokesman and that's advertise it here. Apparently not many here considered it important.

    VCDL isn't related to Grapeshot's comment. If Philp had considered it important, he'd have put out the word via the Alerts.

    But again...it was posted here and he's damned right...it was lonely out there.

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    You are on the Board of Directors. Why are you here quitely complaining about low turn-out when you personally could have done something about it?
    No complaint - was observing. The same people show up at these events day in and day out. Some I don't have to even ask - they'll just be there.

    I appreciate that you have confidence in my ability to rally the troops, but see your reply as very left handed.

    What did you do for VCDL today? Would you have shown up if I bought you breakfast? What is your rate for being responsible, including with your postings?
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    No complaint - was observing. The same people show up at these events day in and day out. Some I don't have to even ask - they'll just be there.

    I appreciate that you have confidence in my ability to rally the troops, but see your reply as very left handed.

    What did you do for VCDL today? Would you have shown up if I bought you breakfast? What is your rate for being responsible, including with your postings?
    My postings contain something too many of yours lack--intellectual honesty and the ability to make distinctions.

    Why are you "observing" only after the fact when you're on the Board of Directors and could have personally done something to increase turnout?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  8. #8
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    VCDL has one person and one person only who is the spokesman,,,,Grapeshot did what he could as a non spokesman and that's advertise it here. Apparently not many here considered it important.

    VCDL isn't related to Grapeshot's comment. If Philp had considered it important, he'd have put out the word via the Alerts.

    But again...it was posted here and he's damned right...it was lonely out there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    No complaint - was observing. The same people show up at these events day in and day out. Some I don't have to even ask - they'll just be there.

    I appreciate that you have confidence in my ability to rally the troops, but see your reply as very left handed.

    What did you do for VCDL today? Would you have shown up if I bought you breakfast? What is your rate for being responsible, including with your postings?
    My postings contain something too many of yours lack--intellectual honesty and the ability to make distinctions.

    Why are you "observing" only after the fact when you're on the Board of Directors and could have personally done something to increase turnout?
    He did do something to attempt to increase turnout A call to arms all abled bodied believers in RKBA Sat 12-14 9-30AM

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    In place of our regular breakfast meet-up, we would like to have a strong showing of polite, responsible activists to demonstrate our resolve to those that would take away our RKBA.

    This will take place from our perspective come rain, snow flurries or shine, so dress appropriately.


    WHO: Moms Demand Action Virginia
    WHEN: December 14, 2013 9:30 AM
    WHERE: Carillon at Byrd Park
    1300 Blanton Avenue
    Richmond, VA 23220
    http://momsdemandaction.org/no-more-silence/

    Do not interfere with their agenda - they are dancing on the victims of Sandy Hook, be respectful and courteous, GSL stickers will be available, the press most likely will be in attendance.
    I'm going to take a wild guess that Grape does not have access to the VA Alert email addresses list so is unable to send out the Alert himself. That is the job of other people, all he can do is bring it to their attention. I'm going to take another of those wild guesses that he attempted to do so. Why his attempt was unsuccessful is for someone else to explain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    He did do something to attempt to increase turnout A call to arms all abled bodied believers in RKBA Sat 12-14 9-30AM.
    Well, that's something.

    But, why the "observation"? Why didn't he do something effective? For pete's sake, Ed Levine is not on the board, and he can get a turn-out like you wouldn't believe.

    And, if the turn-out was low, he wouldn't make a sour "observation" about it, neither.

    At any rate, I find it ironic that a guy who was in a position to do something effective and create a bigger turn-out made an "observation" about low turn out.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Well, that's something.

    But, why the "observation"? Why didn't he do something effective? For pete's sake, Ed Levine is not on the board, and he can get a turn-out like you wouldn't believe.

    And, if the turn-out was low, he wouldn't make a sour "observation" about it, neither.

    At any rate, I find it ironic that a guy who was in a position to do something effective and create a bigger turn-out made an "observation" about low turn out.
    Let's run with that for a moment. Is it Ed who creates the turnout you suggest, or is it the folks living near where Ed does that turn out?

    I notice that there were three (3) of these events in Virginia today:

    WHO: Moms Demand Action Virginia
    WHEN: December 14, 2013 9:30 AM
    WHERE: Carillon at Byrd Park
    1300 Blanton Avenue
    Richmond, VA 23220
    RSVP

    WHO: Moms Demand Action Virginia
    WHEN: December 14, 2013 12:00 PM
    WHERE: Lee Plaza
    214 Church Avenue SW
    Roanoke, VA 24011
    RSVP

    WHO: Moms Demand Action Virginia
    WHEN: December 14, 2013 9:00 AM
    WHERE: The Netherlands Carillon
    1222 N Meade St
    Arlington , VA 22209
    RSVP
    Correct me if I am wrong, but did anybody in SW Va or NoVa post anything here on OCDO about showing up at the events in those areas to present a dissenting opinion?

    I admit that I am the Luddite's Luddite when it comes to social media. I don't use it. I will not use it. Yet I know that Ed uses social media and from what I have been told is quite adept and effective at it. Since I will have nothing to do with it, I need someone to tell me (with a copy/paste since I will not click a link to some social media site) if there was any use of social media to get the NoVa folks involved. Same for the Roanoke-area, except I do not know who their social media butterfly is.

    But now let's get beyond that. Let's come back to Richmond for a while. Folks were aware of the post here on OCDO. Did anybody spread the word via social media? (Do you know what it sounds like when the crickets have gone indoors and there is not even their noise to hear?)

    Riddle me this, too: does VA-ALERTS count as social media? And even if it does not, there is a large question hanging around waiting for an answer. Just as a reference point, VA-ALERTs have come out calling for folks to contact their Senator/Delegate within mere minutes when there is a need to put pressure on some legislation being considered. So it is possible to crank one out for a short-notice event/issue. (I do not want to get into the forensics of when the Board was contacted. Given the history just noted, it would have been technically possible to crank out a VA-ALERT. OCDO is not the place to beard OCDO and seek explanations of why that did not happen.)

    At the bottom line, I am reading you as saying someone should have done something more to try to get folks to show up. My problem is that with 509 views
    Sticky: A call to arms - all abled bodied believers in RKBA - Sat. 12/14 9:30 A.M.
    Started by Grapeshot, 12-12-2013 10:28 PM
    Replies: 22 Views: 509
    a showing of six (6) (stretching the numbers as far as I can) is abysmal. We get four times as many to show up for our monthly OC Dinners. I don't know if that is abysmal or merely sad.

    Would it be out of line, Repeater Citizen, to ask where you were this morning?

    stay safe.

    Most humble apologies for having typed in Repeater's name. I have no excuse to offer except I screwed up.
    Last edited by skidmark; 12-14-2013 at 06:40 PM. Reason: need to apologize for a major screw-up
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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    You can go all around in circles and tangents, Skid.

    Bottom line is still the same--I find it ironic that a fella who was actually in a position to do something about turn-out did little and then makes an "observation" about low turn-out.

    Trying to focus some conversation on Ed doesn't change it.

    Trying to focus attention on me doesn't change it.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    It would seem that rather than be productive, one amongst us would cast disparaging and insulting remarks w/o cause and heeds not the moderation of others. He earns his reputation by his words and deeds. It is as I have come to expect.

    We did have fun today, as we shall next time too.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    My fault

    Friday evening I was asked to proof and publish the va-alert that included Grapeshot's call to arms, but circumstances made it difficult for me to do so, and so it didn't happen.

    My sincerest apologies to Grapeshot and the others who were there.

    But since Grapeshot posted a notification and appeal here at OCDO and coordinated a VA-ALERT on the subject, and was one of the few who actually DID show up at the event, I'd like to hear the specifics of Citizen's allegation that he didn't do enough.

    Unlike Citizen and I, who for one reason or another did absolutely nothing to make the event a success for our side, Grapeshot and his few ardent compatriots were there in the ring.

    “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
    ― Theodore Roosevelt
    Last edited by Riverdance; 12-15-2013 at 08:44 AM. Reason: mistake

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Citizen's posts in this thread stand as a testament of how not to handle a perceived wrong or inadequacy regarding any member of the Administration of OCDO or a BoD/EM of VCDL. Publicly attacking one of our own is akin to slapping them in the face - it just isn't done.

    There is a provided way to make one's feelings known regarding either. He, Citizen, has been advised individually of this before (as have a few others), yet he persists, making it abundantly clear that he has no intention of heeding moderation.

    It is precisely actions/posts like his that have caused us to rethink the rules and responses to infractions. While editing/deleting of posts or threads should be enough to send a message, that carries with it no penalty, has no teeth. More is needed and you may expect to see it soon.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  15. #15
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Citizen's posts in this thread stand as a testament of how not to handle a perceived wrong or inadequacy regarding any member of the Administration of OCDO or a BoD/EM of VCDL. Publicly attacking one of our own is akin to slapping them in the face - it just isn't done.

    There is a provided way to make one's feelings known regarding either. He, Citizen, has been advised individually of this before (as have a few others), yet he persists, making it abundantly clear that he has no intention of heeding moderation.

    It is precisely actions/posts like his that have caused us to rethink the rules and responses to infractions. While editing/deleting of posts or threads should be enough to send a message, that carries with it no penalty, has no teeth. More is needed and you may expect to see it soon.
    FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, WOULD YOU PLEASE SHUT DOWN THIS THREAD. IT HAS TURNED INTO A URINATING CONTEST AND THE DISCUSSION NOW HAS NO RELATIONSHIP TO THE SUBJECT THAT WAS THE ORIGINAL POST.

    And for anybody that is keeping score, iirc this is the first time that I have said anything about the two posters that can not/will not take their dislike for each other to PMs where it more properly belongs. One is a close personal friend with whom I disagree with on what is going on here. The other is a worthy and honorable poster that seems to relish arguing on the internet more than I do, if that could be possible.

    THE PROBLEM IS, THE ISSUE(S) BETWEEN THEM ARE PERSONAL AND DO NOTHING TO ADVANCE ANY DISCUSSION.

    Yes, I am upset. That's why I used all caps, and bolded them. Y'all are lucky I did not increase the font size to something like 50.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

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