davidmcbeth
Banned
As any other EMPLOYEE whose conditions of employment the employer controls, yes?
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I have reached the conclusios that police in america should not carry guns
- Thread starter onus
- Start date
As any other EMPLOYEE whose conditions of employment the employer controls, yes?
Primus
Regular Member
Agreed again. Its a tough line but it needs to be there. If you have guys scared of getting sued or fired on every call then they can't do their job effectively. But there shouldn't be a blanket pass to do whatever you want. Guys do get prosecuted sued etc. Usually with the big cases.
Like the van shooting. Guy was wrong for shooting the van. Period. No question. So he lost his job. That's how it should be. Was it a mistake on his part? Sure. But still he screwed up and kids couldve gotten hurt.
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davidmcbeth
Banned
There is no question that the trust and respect between law enforcement and citizens is all but gone. Both are responsible and who shares the most blame is debatable. But instead of arguing who's at fault how do you fix it. Is it to late to fix?
Primus
Regular Member
David without derailing the thread I was only referring to his claim that he heard someone yell gun and he had just rolled up not knowing who or what was in the van. Based on that he supposedly shot because they may have yelled gun.
I'm not remotely condoning the behavior. He screwed up big time and is paying the price. I'm saying it may not have been malicious. That's all no more no less. Please don't take that as an "apology" for him or anything else.
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Primus
Regular Member
To be honest that's part of the reason I'm on this thread. To speak with other guys who may be on the other "side". Communication is the key.
Some guys put out information that is just wrong and is usually only corrected by law enforcement (not always there are plenty non le that are very smart and step up). Some guys will state crazy allegations like licenses aren't needed, DUI checkpoints are illegal, warrants need suspicion, etc. The list goes on. Unless there is someone (there's a few on here) to speak up and say.... wow that's not true... it just gets propagated and makes the le look worse and worse.
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I agree 100%. Its easy to discuss solutions to any problem. However it is not so easy in the real world. It would take smarter men than me to make it work in the real world.
eye95
Well-known member
Funny, cuz my experience is that the worst source for correct information on the law is cops!
Primus
Regular Member
I wouldn't say the "worst" and it depends on the cop your talking to. I know guys at Dunkn donuts that make awful coffees...... lol
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eye95
Well-known member
Let's see, the cop that stopped me at Eastdale Mall, his lieutenant, his captain. All five cops that stopped me at Target and their sergeant. A certain retired police officer whom I see on a near daily basis. The cop at the gun show a few months ago....
No matter if you ask a cop or someone on the street. If you take that without verifying the information who's fault is it.
Primus
Regular Member
Eye you realize there's tens of thousands of cops..... even if you met 10 not even a tiny drop..... and what were they wrong about? I'm assuming a gun law? Was it bad infro from said captain all the way down the chain?
Again I've had horrible coffee from quite a few places.. not saying a coffee shop is last place to buy coffee based on my bad experience.... as already said trust and verify
So next guy you run into and gives you bad advice ask him to quote his source.
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eye95
Well-known member
That's virtually every cop I've ever spoken to about OC.
Fuller Malarkey
Regular Member
Numbers are compelling. Citizen apparently stop more bad guys than cops, shoot fewer bystanders, show greater impulse control. Hard to argue with the concept.
davidmcbeth
Banned
He's hearing things ... "he screwed up?"=mistake not a mistake on purpose with intent to kill willful act
That's attempted murder. Right?
Fuller Malarkey
Regular Member
It would appear CCJ, that what is focused on in training is "overcoming" rights as a tool. If that doesn't work, the use of force moves up a step.
Fuller Malarkey
Regular Member
Respectfully, I will never become a servant of the police. I will never be "on their side". Maybe I have a different idea of who is supposed to be serving who. And this whole "side" thing....who is on the "other side"?
Many simply do not approve of what the police do and have become. As a whole. And will never support something attempting to rule and control them without their consent.
How do you acquaint both sides showing respect to being a servant? People were not meant to serve the police the police are to serve the public. Again both sides are responsible for the position things are in right now.
I never said to disarm ALL police. I just said that not ALL police should carry guns on their person while out on patrol.
How many police officers do you need to have guns on them when they stop one person ? If you have 4 officers there I think only one really needs to have a gun and even then 99.99999% of the time cops don't even need guns.
I think American police need to start learning and getting in the habit of diffusing situations and not resorting to force and violence all the time.
Plus, in England it has been proven that citizens respect and treat police better because they see police as equals.
How many police officers do you need to have guns on them when they stop one person ? If you have 4 officers there I think only one really needs to have a gun and even then 99.99999% of the time cops don't even need guns.
I think American police need to start learning and getting in the habit of diffusing situations and not resorting to force and violence all the time.
Plus, in England it has been proven that citizens respect and treat police better because they see police as equals.
77zach
Regular Member
Police have just as much a right to defend themselves as everyone else.
The problem I have with police is that they enforce the unethical laws of their bosses without question, generally speaking. Cops should also not get special gun carry privileges, except maybe in jails. For example, cops should not be able to carry on airplanes if I cannot. Cops should not be able to point their guns at people on suspicion of threat if I cannot, etc.
The problem I have with police is that they enforce the unethical laws of their bosses without question, generally speaking. Cops should also not get special gun carry privileges, except maybe in jails. For example, cops should not be able to carry on airplanes if I cannot. Cops should not be able to point their guns at people on suspicion of threat if I cannot, etc.