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Thread: Any trouble with Leos?

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    Any trouble with Leos?

    I was wondering if anyone here has had any run ins with the local leos when open carrying alone or with a few people. I understand that there is some confusion with ths law or something?

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    I've only heard of people OCing in groups mostly organized by ArkansasCarry.org

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    I've open carried by myself around Conway a few times and I don't think anyone except my barber has even noticed.
    So far I've been to Wal-Mart, Dicks, Radio Shack, Best Buy, Harps, and a couple of gas stations and had no issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by endorphine44 View Post
    I've open carried by myself around Conway a few times and I don't think anyone except my barber has even noticed.
    So far I've been to Wal-Mart, Dicks, Radio Shack, Best Buy, Harps, and a couple of gas stations and had no issues.
    I lived in Arkansas for most of my life, and have been on the board for Arkansas Carry for a few years now. In May, I moved to Virginia where OC is both clearly legal and well accepted.

    My personal position on Arkansas law is that it's entirely clear that there is no law prohibiting the mere carrying or possession of a weapon. Prosecution under 5-73-120 ("Carrying a weapon") places the burden upon the arresting agency to prove that the citizen's intent was to employ the weapon unlawfully. I'm not a lawyer, and obviously some Arkansas law enforcement and prosecuting attorneys disagree with what I believe to be the clear language of the law.

    I traveled today from about an hour East of Memphis to Harrison, AR. During the course of this travel, I carried my Glock 31 in a Blackhawk SERPA retention holster just as I do every day in Virginia. I was wearing blue jeans and a brown t-shirt; I also have a leather jacket that covers the butt of the gun and most of the holster. Activities included:

    * I stopped on the side of I-40 near Forrest City where the traffic was backed up due to construction. I got out of my vehicle to get my infant in the back seat and pass her up to my wife so she could breastfeed her. Once she finished, I got back out of the vehicle and carried the baby back to her car seat and secured her. I wore no cover garment.

    * I stopped at a McDonald's just West of Maumelle. I wore my jacket open, and my firearm was clearly visible from the front. No issues.

    * I stopped at a small gas station about 7 miles East of Conway, to use the restroom. I again wore my jacket open, no issues. We idled in the parking lot for another feeding session, and this time when I got out to put the baby in the back seat, I may have concerned a middle-aged lady getting into her car in the next spot. I made a point to send a friendly nod of recognition her way as I held my door from hitting her car, but I saw her expression change and she hit the automatic locks. I was wearing no cover at the time, and this is the only response that was even remotely negative i've had so far.

    I plan to continue to carry in this way, just barely concealing when I'm in a store or on private property that isn't posted. Otherwise, I default open carry as I've grown accustomed. I'll do what I can to keep this thread up to date.

    I'll be in the Harrison area until Christmas Day, when I'll head back toward Memphis. I went to church with the county sheriff here for years, and we are casual acquaintances. I called their office in July when I was in town, and they weren't able to tell me if any training had been provided to officers after the passage of the law. I don't intend to call them again to confirm what I believe to be my right, but based on the previous statements supporting firearms freedoms by Sheriff Moore, I don't anticipate much of an issue.

    I've heard that the Harrison Police Chief has said in the past that he would order his officers to arrest anyone open carrying in their jurisdiction. I've not decided how I'll handle that situation yet. I will certainly remain respectful while firm and aware of my rights under Arkansas law. I certainly don't intend to unlawfully employ any weapon, as my purpose of carrying it is solely to be able to better defend my wife and daughters. The fact that openly carrying is a part of my daily routine and has been for some months would surely emphasize that.

    It's an uncomfortable position to be in where I have to choose between legally protecting my family and running afoul of someone who could potentially want to arrest me and charge me with a serious crime based on a difference in the way we interpret a single line of text.

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    Thanks for that report, Lyndsy.

    I've dabbled with "less than concealed" on various visits to Arkansas. I would get more bold, except that I'm on a pretty firm deadline to report to my new job in New Hampshire two weeks from today, and I really can't afford a delay en route, or return visits to fight it out in court (not to mention my employer's dim view of employees being arrested).

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Thanks for that report, Lyndsy.

    I've dabbled with "less than concealed" on various visits to Arkansas. I would get more bold, except that I'm on a pretty firm deadline to report to my new job in New Hampshire two weeks from today, and I really can't afford a delay en route, or return visits to fight it out in court (not to mention my employer's dim view of employees being arrested).
    I don't think my wife would appreciate my being arrested two days before Christmas, either.

    I don't intend to find trouble, and I'm 100% certain my activity is legal. The fact that it's even a concern is a testament to the fact that we've become accustomed to unchecked abuse of power from those who are elected and appointed to hold it.

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    It's obvious that all went well in Harrison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndsy Simon View Post
    I lived in Arkansas for most of my life, and have been on the board for Arkansas Carry for a few years now. In May, I moved to Virginia where OC is both clearly legal and well accepted.

    My personal position on Arkansas law is that it's entirely clear that there is no law prohibiting the mere carrying or possession of a weapon. Prosecution under 5-73-120 ("Carrying a weapon") places the burden upon the arresting agency to prove that the citizen's intent was to employ the weapon unlawfully. I'm not a lawyer, and obviously some Arkansas law enforcement and prosecuting attorneys disagree with what I believe to be the clear language of the law.

    I traveled today from about an hour East of Memphis to Harrison, AR. During the course of this travel, I carried my Glock 31 in a Blackhawk SERPA retention holster just as I do every day in Virginia. I was wearing blue jeans and a brown t-shirt; I also have a leather jacket that covers the butt of the gun and most of the holster. Activities included:

    * I stopped on the side of I-40 near Forrest City where the traffic was backed up due to construction. I got out of my vehicle to get my infant in the back seat and pass her up to my wife so she could breastfeed her. Once she finished, I got back out of the vehicle and carried the baby back to her car seat and secured her. I wore no cover garment.

    * I stopped at a McDonald's just West of Maumelle. I wore my jacket open, and my firearm was clearly visible from the front. No issues.

    * I stopped at a small gas station about 7 miles East of Conway, to use the restroom. I again wore my jacket open, no issues. We idled in the parking lot for another feeding session, and this time when I got out to put the baby in the back seat, I may have concerned a middle-aged lady getting into her car in the next spot. I made a point to send a friendly nod of recognition her way as I held my door from hitting her car, but I saw her expression change and she hit the automatic locks. I was wearing no cover at the time, and this is the only response that was even remotely negative i've had so far.

    I plan to continue to carry in this way, just barely concealing when I'm in a store or on private property that isn't posted. Otherwise, I default open carry as I've grown accustomed. I'll do what I can to keep this thread up to date.

    I'll be in the Harrison area until Christmas Day, when I'll head back toward Memphis. I went to church with the county sheriff here for years, and we are casual acquaintances. I called their office in July when I was in town, and they weren't able to tell me if any training had been provided to officers after the passage of the law. I don't intend to call them again to confirm what I believe to be my right, but based on the previous statements supporting firearms freedoms by Sheriff Moore, I don't anticipate much of an issue.

    I've heard that the Harrison Police Chief has said in the past that he would order his officers to arrest anyone open carrying in their jurisdiction. I've not decided how I'll handle that situation yet. I will certainly remain respectful while firm and aware of my rights under Arkansas law. I certainly don't intend to unlawfully employ any weapon, as my purpose of carrying it is solely to be able to better defend my wife and daughters. The fact that openly carrying is a part of my daily routine and has been for some months would surely emphasize that.

    It's an uncomfortable position to be in where I have to choose between legally protecting my family and running afoul of someone who could potentially want to arrest me and charge me with a serious crime based on a difference in the way we interpret a single line of text.

    I haven't seen you in the news so all must have went well while you were visiting.

    I have opened carried in a number of different states and am open carrying here in Arkansas too. I will say that I have had the least amount of reactions in Arkansas.

    There has been a lot of blustering about arrest etc. by a few LEO's but no arrest has been made. You are right in that Harrison is the big problem child at this point. I open carry in my home town and county even though both the County Sheriff and Chief of Police tells me Act 746 doesn't allow open carrying. The only thing they threaten us with is disorderly conduct and or disturbing the peace.

    I read that this thread my die because the author is in NH but just giving you an update that many are open carrying in one form or another and posting pictures.

    We know we are in the right but we prefer to educate the LEO's first because it's not us against them, we all want the same things a quiet and peaceable life and sometimes a little patients will go a long way.
    Last edited by Packer fan; 01-04-2014 at 06:09 AM.
    Don't confuse me with the facts, I have my emotions!

    I guess that's the difference between no crime and "stopping" a crime in progress. I prefer no crime.

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    i took my CCW renewal this weekend with a sheriff who said crittenden county is siding with the AG.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Packer fan View Post
    I haven't seen you in the news so all must have went well while you were visiting.

    I have opened carried in a number of different states and am open carrying here in Arkansas too. I will say that I have had the least amount of reactions in Arkansas.

    There has been a lot of blustering about arrest etc. by a few LEO's but no arrest has been made. You are right in that Harrison is the big problem child at this point. I open carry in my home town and county even though both the County Sheriff and Chief of Police tells me Act 746 doesn't allow open carrying. The only thing they threaten us with is disorderly conduct and or disturbing the peace.

    I read that this thread my die because the author is in NH but just giving you an update that many are open carrying in one form or another and posting pictures.

    We know we are in the right but we prefer to educate the LEO's first because it's not us against them, we all want the same things a quiet and peaceable life and sometimes a little patients will go a long way.
    I hear you - if I were still in Arkansas, I'd be doing the same. I think my wife is glad I'm not, so I'm not the test case

    I haven't had time yet to sit down and post an update, but the long and short of it is that I barely concealed in Harrison and OCed everywhere else. I had no issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by endorphine44 View Post
    I've open carried by myself around Conway a few times and I don't think anyone except my barber has even noticed.
    So far I've been to Wal-Mart, Dicks, Radio Shack, Best Buy, Harps, and a couple of gas stations and had no issues.
    Your barber works out of Radio Shack? How convenient. Batteries and a shave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by endorphine44 View Post
    I've open carried by myself around Conway a few times and I don't think anyone except my barber has even noticed.
    So far I've been to Wal-Mart, Dicks, Radio Shack, Best Buy, Harps, and a couple of gas stations and had no issues.
    I firmly believe it's people like you who are the reason we have gun laws to begin with. Open Carry is for Defense, why would you carry in Dicks? Are you going to have to shoot someone in a sporting goods store? NO, you just want to Flaunt your weapon around (Probably a hi-point or Taurus)...........

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALew2013 View Post
    I firmly believe it's people like you who are the reason we have gun laws to begin with. Open Carry is for Defense, why would you carry in Dicks? Are you going to have to shoot someone in a sporting goods store? NO, you just want to Flaunt your weapon around (Probably a hi-point or Taurus)...........
    I hear a train coming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kopis View Post
    i took my CCW renewal this weekend with a sheriff who said crittenden county is siding with the AG.
    Yes, there are few LEO that are PRO open carry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALew2013 View Post
    I firmly believe it's people like you who are the reason we have gun laws to begin with. Open Carry is for Defense, why would you carry in Dicks? Are you going to have to shoot someone in a sporting goods store? NO, you just want to Flaunt your weapon around (Probably a hi-point or Taurus)...........
    The danger is in the parking lot, getting into and out of the car. Besides, it's just a tool, like a cellphone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALew2013 View Post
    I firmly believe it's people like you who are the reason we have gun laws to begin with. Open Carry is for Defense, why would you carry in Dicks? Are you going to have to shoot someone in a sporting goods store? NO, you just want to Flaunt your weapon around (Probably a hi-point or Taurus)...........
    In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CALew2013 View Post
    I firmly believe it's people like you who are the reason we have gun laws to begin with.
    Would appear that you are accusing OCers of being criminals.

    Open Carry is for Defense
    OK -true.

    why would you carry in Dicks?
    Why not?

    Are you going to have to shoot someone in a sporting goods store?
    Don't know, hope not.

    NO, you just want to Flaunt your weapon around (Probably a hi-point or Taurus)...........
    Trollish and provoking. Is that why you are here?
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    Quote Originally Posted by CALew2013 View Post
    I firmly believe it's people like you who are the reason we have gun laws to begin with. Open Carry is for Defense, why would you carry in Dicks? Are you going to have to shoot someone in a sporting goods store? NO, you just want to Flaunt your weapon around (Probably a hi-point or Taurus)...........
    you're on the wrong site, bro. Don't worry, this is what you were looking for: http://momsdemandaction.org/

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALew2013 View Post
    I firmly believe it's people like you who are the reason we have gun laws to begin with. Open Carry is for Defense, why would you carry in Dicks? Are you going to have to shoot someone in a sporting goods store? NO, you just want to Flaunt your weapon around (Probably a hi-point or Taurus)...........
    At least he's right about the Taurus/high point thing. Everything else not so much..
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    At least he's right about the Taurus/high point thing. Everything else not so much..
    A Taurus in the moment beats a kimber in the display case. Every defense conscious person needs a firearm, even the very poor.(Simpsons reference)

  20. #20
    Regular Member endorphine44's Avatar
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    Thanks Grapeshot...that pretty much sums it up.


    EDIT:
    to CALew2013:

    We have most of our gun laws because white gov't officials (democrats) didn't want free black men to be armed, not because I (one man) decided to exercise my rights to open carry. Those same gun laws were very selectively enforced against minorities for many years, now they're enforced on everyone.

    I carry my handgun everywhere, usually open. Church is about the only place I still carry concealed and you are correct, open carry is for defense, just like concealed carry. I don't believe I said anything about assaulting people in the store, threatening anyone, or trying to use my pistol as an offensive weapon...not sure how or why you'd imply my pistol is anything but a defensive weapon?
    And somehow the inside of Dicks Sporting Goods is a safe zone now? Who guarantees my safety (or yours for that matter) while you're in the store? Did criminals suddenly stop targeting sporting goods stores? Sorry, I must have missed that memo.

    I'm not real sure why choice of weapon would really matter, I'm pretty sure a Taurus or Hi-Point will stop a threat just like a Sig, Springfield, or Kimber....and if anyone really cares to know, I usually carry a Sig P250, occasionally an XD. I wouldn't personally trust a hi-point for self defense, but I know plenty of people that keep them at home and/or in a vehicle.
    Last edited by endorphine44; 02-02-2015 at 11:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALew2013 View Post
    I firmly believe it's people like you who are the reason we have gun laws to begin with. Open Carry is for Defense, why would you carry in Dicks? Are you going to have to shoot someone in a sporting goods store? NO, you just want to Flaunt your weapon around (Probably a hi-point or Taurus)...........
    Quote Originally Posted by endorphine44 View Post
    Thanks Grapeshot...that pretty much sums it up.

    We have most of our gun laws because white gov't officials (democrats) didn't want free black men to be armed, not because I (one man) decided to exercise my rights to open carry. Those same gun laws were very selectively enforced against minorities for many years, now they're enforced on everyone.

    I carry my handgun everywhere, usually open. Church is about the only place I still carry concealed and you are correct, open carry is for defense, just like concealed carry. I don't believe I said anything about assaulting people in the store, threatening anyone, or trying to use my pistol as an offensive weapon...not sure how or why you'd imply my pistol is anything but a defensive weapon?
    And somehow the inside of Dicks Sporting Goods is a safe zone now? Who guarantees my safety (or yours for that matter) while you're in the store? Did criminals suddenly stop targeting sporting goods stores? Sorry, I must have missed that memo.

    I'm not real sure why choice of weapon would really matter, I'm pretty sure a Taurus or Hi-Point will stop a threat just like a Sig, Springfield, or Kimber....and if anyone really cares to know, I usually carry a Sig P250, occasionally an XD. I wouldn't personally trust a hi-point for self defense, but I know plenty of people that keep them at home and/or in a vehicle.
    You are obviously confusing my reply to CALew2013 with what I otherwise said.
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  22. #22
    Regular Member endorphine44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    You are obviously confusing my reply to CALew2013 with what I otherwise said.
    no, sorry I should have separated them a little better. I liked your reply to CALew2013...just added some thoughts of my own. I think we're on the same page.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CALew2013 View Post
    I firmly believe it's people like you who are the reason we have gun laws to begin with. Open Carry is for Defense, why would you carry in Dicks? Are you going to have to shoot someone in a sporting goods store? NO, you just want to Flaunt your weapon around (Probably a hi-point or Taurus)...........
    The troll is strong on this one...

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    Banishment only because they/he is repetitive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CALew2013 View Post
    I firmly believe it's people like you who are the reason we have gun laws to begin with. Open Carry is for Defense, why would you carry in Dicks? Are you going to have to shoot someone in a sporting goods store? NO, you just want to Flaunt your weapon around (Probably a hi-point or Taurus)...........
    Oh yeah, I forgot crazy people can't go to Dick's.

    On the other hand, since you can't go to Dick's, there's little reason for you to be upset about someone OCing there, right?
    Advocate freedom please

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