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Thread: Montana Sheriffs & Peace Officers Association's website

  1. #1
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    Montana Sheriffs & Peace Officers Association's website

    The following statement is found on the Montana Sheriffs & Peace Officers Association's website:

    http://www.mspoa.org/index.html

    Unfortunately, it seems that we are heading into some sort of new legislation (the Obamaban?) that will require a mental health evaluation for either all gun owners or perhaps for all new gun purchases. In other words, you will first have to see a government psychiatrist for a head shrinking before you can pass the required background check. Note that the statement by the Montana Sheriffs & Peace Officers Association states that they will be in favor of this type of "psychiatric insanity."

    Quote: "The MSPOA has long supported the efforts of the mental health community and will continue to do so."

    Full statement:

    "The Montana Sheriffs & Peace Officers Association (MSPOA) is committed to public safety, and each of our members has taken an oath to uphold and protect the Constitution of the State of Montana and the United States Constitution, including the Second Amendment.

    The MSPOA believes in the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution, which guarantees the right of the people to keep and bear arms and that this right shall not be infringed. It is important to note that no legislation affecting this right has been introduced.

    As our state and country continue to discuss and debate gun control legislation, the position of our association remains steadfast: the MSPOA will not waver in our defense of the Constitution and will stand to preserve our constituents’ right to possess firearms and the protections insured by the other nine amendments contained in the Bill of Rights.

    The MSPOA feels that any legislation that takes away constitutional protections, including gun rights, from law-abiding citizens will not alleviate or eliminate the threat from violent or mentally ill individuals. In fact, it would expose our law-abiding neighbors to violence with fewer resources to counter them with.

    America has endured violent assaults of children and adults at the hands of criminals who have used firearms as well as other weapons. The MSPOA does not believe that it is the fault of the weapon, but that of the often mentally disturbed individual who wields it. The MSPOA has long supported the efforts of the mental health community and will continue to do so.

    As professional peace officers, elected and sworn to uphold both the State and U.S. Constitutions, we additionally believe in the importance of the division of power and roles of each of the three branches of government, at both the state and federal level. MSPOA feels that now is the time to discuss violence in its totality, not simply as an issue of “gun” violence. Violence is a result of a breakdown on many fronts: family, gangs, drugs, lack of proper mental health treatment, and the proliferation of violence in media, just to name a few. The discussion must include stakeholders from all disciplines who are dedicated to and willing to address the myriad and complex issues related to the safety of our communities and our country.

    The MSPOA remains committed to the safety of the citizens of the State of Montana. We will dedicate our efforts toward active participation in the legislative process and the protection of the rights of the people of our state. We welcome and encourage our neighbors’ active participation in this process as well. As Congress and the Montana legislature debate issues surrounding violence, the Second Amendment, and gun rights, the MSPOA will insure that our voices will be heard."

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    Is MSPOA a cop union? Will collective bargaining agreements exempt cops from a psych check?

    I did not read in the statement that they support a requirement to have a psych check completed prior to acquiring a firearm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I did not read in the statement that they support a requirement to have a psych check completed prior to acquiring a firearm.
    Admittedly, I’m reading between the lines of the Montana Sheriffs & Peace Officers Association’s statement and I’m predicting that a new law will be passed that will require psychiatric evaluations for gun ownership and/or all new purchases, but it isn’t a hard prediction to make.

    In fact, according to the Gun Owners of America, “Tens of millions of Americans,” might lose their 2A rights because of this planned legislation.

    And with the Montana Sheriffs & Peace Officers Association stating in advance that they will support the efforts of the mental health community, what is coming should be of grave concern for all American gun owners.

    Simply stated, psychiatry - via mental health diagnoses electronically transmitted to the Federal databases - is one of the major paths the New World Order gun-grabbing globalists will use to abolish the Second Amendment rights of many Americans.

    The reasons why I believe this is quite complicated, but I’ll spell it out for you as best as I can.

    The NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007 (HR 2640) places any person who has ever been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) on the Federal prohibited possessor gun ban list.

    PTSD was first recognized as a diagnostic category in the 1980 Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, the DSM-III, and initially was created to describe the dramatically altered functioning of severely traumatized American soldiers who had served in combat zones. Over the years psychiatrists have expanded the list of jobs likely to cause PTSD to include law enforcement officers, fire, rescue and EMS professionals; high-risk jobs in which exposure to potentially traumatizing incidents are routine.

    Not unexpectedly, the list of people that might develop PTSD has been propagated to include car accident victims, burn victims, natural disaster survivors, sexual abuse victims, physical assault victims, burglary victims, even divorcees. So nowadays, if you’ve ever been robbed, in a car accident, or a natural disaster, you might very well have PTSD.

    According to the National Center for Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, “About 60% of men and 50% of women experience this type of event (a traumatic event likely to cause PTSD) in their lives” and “8% of men and 20% of women develop PTSD after a traumatic event” – that’s 4.8% of ALL males and 10% of ALL females.

    Soldiers returning from deployment now receive a mental health evaluation immediately upon their return and every 6 months for the first 2 years thereafter (called the Montana model). Counselors probe for signs of stress, including anxieties, sleep disorders, family problems, and excessive alcohol use. It's a mandatory requirement, so it reduces the stigma of a soldier reaching out for help with an emotional or psychiatric disorder.

    Ronald Manderscheid, PhD , wrote that “… as many as 40% of vets returning from Iraq and Afghanistan will experience mental health or substance use conditions, and that at least half of these will have post traumatic stress disorder…” If true, 20% of all returning vets are being branded with the dreaded label of PTSD.

    18 U.S.C. 922 (d) & (g) makes you a prohibited possessor if you have been “adjudicated as a mental defective.” Forty years ago the term “adjudicated” meant that one had been found not guilty by reason of insanity in a court. In other words, the only way to be “adjudicated as a mental defective” and lose your gun rights was through an adjudication by a Judge or Magistrate in a court trial where there is due process, including the right to face one's accuser.

    Now, under the NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007, adjudication includes a finding by “a court, commission, committee or other authorized person” such as a psychiatrist, psychologist, physician, physician’s assistant, or even a nurse practitioner.

    Hence, if an “authorized person” determines you have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, Alzheimer’s, Schizophrenia, Bipolar, Major Depression, or a myriad of other mental health disorders, then, under the new interpretation, you may be subject to a lifetime gun ban because the term “adjudication” now includes a diagnosis, as opposed to a court order.

    Also, HR2640 has redefined the term “mental defective” to include anyone who has been determined to be “a danger to himself or to others; or who lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs.” In a letter dated May 9th, 2007, the BATFE wrote that “danger” means “any” danger, not “imminent” or “substantial danger.”

    And Section 101 (c) (1) (C) of the NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007 makes this even clearer, and goes even further. It provides that a person can be made a prohibited possessor, based "solely on a medical finding of disability" even if that finding is based on a microscopic amount of danger or inability to manage one’s affairs.

    During the last presidential campaign, Hillary Clinton proclaimed numerous times,

    “I believe strongly people have the right to own and bear arms under the Second Amendment. And I also believe we can reconcile our constitutional rights with common-sense measures that will keep guns out of the hands of criminals, terrorists and people with mental health problems.”

    And Obama, starting after Cho Seung-Hui shot 32 people at Virginia Tech, repeatedly stated that the laws should be strengthened to prevent the mentally ill from buying guns. Ditto for McCain. It is their stated agenda.

    How will they accomplish this?

    By coercing all American physicians to make their medical records electronic, using software “certified” by the government. That way carnivore surveillance systems can scan for keywords like PSTD, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, etc. so that the mental health diagnoses can be easily included in the NICS system.

    I know for a fact (from personal conversations) that physicians are being paid government blood money to computerize their medical records, and are being threatened with the withholding of Medicare reimbursements, etc. if they refuse to comply.

    Most of HR2640’s verbiage is about Federal grants to improve the input of mental health records into the system’s databases. In other words, HR2640 not only requires accurate information on individuals prohibited from possessing firearms to be transmitted by State and local government and Federal agencies to the NICS, it actually provides financial incentives for facilitating electronic transmission of such information.

    Next enter the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009.

    In February 2009, Gun Owners of America spoke out against the legislation:

    “Of particular concern to gun owners are sections 13101 through 13434 of HR 1, which would set up the infrastructure to computerize the medical records of ALL AMERICANS in a government-coordinated database.

    True, the bill doesn’t mandate that the data will be in a giant computer under the Oval Office. But it does mandate that your medical records be reduced to a computerized form which is available to it in a second. This it would do by establishing a National Coordinator for Health Information Technology –- tasked with, among other things, “providing information to help guide medical decisions at the time and place of care.”

    It should be scary enough that a government bureaucrat is directed by statute to try to influence your doctor’s decisions with respect to your medical care.

    But of even greater concern to gun owners is the fact that a government-coordinated database (which government can freely access) will now contain all records of government-provided and private psychiatric treatment -– including, in particular, the drugs which were prescribed.

    Remember last year’s “NICS Improvement Act” otherwise known as the Veterans Disarmament Act? This law codified ATF’s attempts to make you a prohibited person on the basis of a government psychiatrist’s finding that you are a “danger” –- without a finding by any court. Well, roughly 150,000 battle-scarred veterans have already been unfairly stripped of their gun rights by the government.
    But people who, as kids, were diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder... or seniors with Alzheimer’s... or police with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder... or people who are now theoretically covered by the new law... these people have, generally, not suffered the consequences of its sanctions YET.

    And the chief reason is that their records are not easily available to the government in a central, easily retrievable, computerized form.
    The bailout bill would change all of that. It would push increasingly hard to force your private psychiatrist or government-sanctioned psychiatrist to turn over your psychiatric records to a massive database. This would be mandated immediately if your doctor does business with the government.

    This would supposedly save Medicare money in connection with medical treatment. And, the sponsors insist, they would work very hard to protect your privacy. But this turns the concept of “privacy” on its head. The privacy which is MOST important is privacy from the prying eyes of government –- not privacy of government data against the prying eyes of others. After all, many government data bases have been hacked in recent years, with mountains of information stolen.

    So, once the government has access to these computerized psychiatric records, the stage will be set for using that database to take away the gun rights of those with Alzheimer’s, those with ADD, and those with PTSD.”

    (end of GOA quotes)

    Well, the stimulus bill passed and formalized the Office of the National Coordinator for Health Information Technology, and also created more financial incentives for adopting certified electronic health records. Of the nearly $900 billion stimulus package, about $20 billion went to Health and Human Services, with $6 billion going to the Office of the Secretary of Health and Human Services. Of that $6 billion, $2 billion was allocated to the Office of the National Coordinator for Information Technology.

    The package authorized the Medicare Trust Fund to pay off physicians who use certified electronic health records. The incentives are in the form of a 75% increase in Medicare Part B fees. Physicians that haven’t adopted certified electronic health records by 2016, will face financial penalties starting at 1% and escalating to 3% of Medicare Part B fees. Additional bonuses for adoption and use break down to about $15,000 the first year and declining each year to about $2,000 in the fifth year, with a maximum payout of more than $40,000 per physician.

    In his December 6th, 2009 radio address in which he laid out key parts of the economic recovery plan, Obama said the following:

    “In addition to connecting our libraries and schools to the internet, we must also ensure that our hospitals are connected to each other through the internet. That is why the economic recovery plan I’m proposing will help modernize our health care system – and that won’t just save jobs, it will save lives. We will make sure that every doctor’s office and hospital in this country is using cutting edge technology and electronic medical records so that we can cut red tape, prevent medical mistakes, and help save billions of dollars each year.”

    And expand the prohibited possessor list, I’ll add.

    Next let’s look at the health care reform bills. In November 2009, WashingtonExaminer.com posted an article that read:

    “The day before the Senate passed the $848 billion health bill on a party-line vote, the Virginia-based Gun Owners of America sent out a mass alert to its 300,000 members, warning them that the legislation "will most likely dump your gun-related health data into a government database. ... This includes any firearms-related information your doctor has gleaned or any determination of post traumatic stress disorder or something similar, that can preclude you from owning firearms.”

    And in December 2009, Gun Owners of America wrote:

    “But also remember that the ObamaCrats never really had our interests in mind and that they never really solved all the Second Amendment problems in the health care bill. Again, even with the Reid “fix,” it’s still possible that ATF agents could troll through your medical information and send that data to the FBI, who in turn, could use it to deny honest Americans their right to keep and bear arms -- similar to the 150,000 military veterans who have now lost their gun rights.”

    And in January 2010 GOA wrote:

    “Senators are now insisting that the current Senate health bill protects the rights of gun owners, even though this version would still allow the BATFE and FBI to troll through the ObamaCare database for gun owners who would be disqualified because of their medical information. This could result in millions of Americans -- who are suffering from PTSD and other similar conditions -- being put into the NICS system and denied the right to buy firearms.”

    And also in January 2010, GOA wrote:

    “… the Senate health care bill which Pelosi now seeks to fix contains the following problems:

    * It will allow BATFE to troll a health/gun database in order to take away firearms from tens of millions of Americans; ”

    “Tens of millions of Americans,” could lose their 2A rights because of psychiatry, according to GOA !!!

    I hope you understand the magnitude of the ramifications of electronic medical records – tens of millions of us are at risk.

    Back in 2002 then President George Bush Jr. established the New Freedom Commission on Mental Health by executive order in which recommended “comprehensive mental health screening” for "consumers of all ages," including preschool children. So there is already an executive order calling for recommended psychiatric evaluations of all Americans.

    If the Federal Government is bold enough to mandate by law that all Americans are required to buy health insurance or be fined or jailed, mandatory mental health evaluations for all Americans - or perhaps just all gun purchasers - isn’t implausible.

    Following the most recent school shooting at Arapahoe High School in Colorado, the mainstream media is screaming that something must be done to prevent mentally ill people from getting guns. Sean Hannity, Mike Huccabee, Piers Morgan, Dr. Drew, Rachael Maddow, Rush Limbaugh, and many others are all hyping it up as best as they can and the American sheeple are sucking it in wholesale.

    The Columbine school shooting, the Gabrielle Gifford’s attempted assassination, the Aurora movie theater shooting rampage, the Sandy Hook Elementary school massacre, the recent Navy Base shooting, The Boston bombing, and others were all false flag Manchurian candidate events, all staged by the shadow government (using mind control and psychotropic drugs) in order to bring about more oppressive gun control legislation that centers around mental illness.

    It is highly likely that they will stage more of these tragedies, especially school shootings, to further their evil agenda. Once the new legislation is on the table and being discussed, the American sheeple AND THE AMERICAN POLICE, including the Montana Sheriffs & Peace Officers Association, will FULLY SUPPORT the new law – otherwise it will look like they are in favor of school children being gunned down.

    Mark my words, the next false flag school shooting is being is being planned out as I write.

    My suggestion is to be very careful what you tell your personal physician. Never say you are depressed and never discuss any personal issues or political views. Never take any psychoactive pharmaceutical. Be wary of questions like, "Do you feel stressed?," "Do you feel threatened?," "Do you feel like doing harm to someone?" If you answer yes to any of these questions it is required that you are reported to Homeland Security.

    Looks like they are going after the vets first. Other gun people like retired law enforcement will probably be next. Then when they go after the civilians. Be forewarned and be aware. The Obama administration has gone on record as considering veterans and gun owners potential terrorists. Whether you are a gun owner, veteran or not, YOU‘VE BEEN WARNED !
    Last edited by Augustin; 12-17-2013 at 07:30 PM.

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    Is anybody interested in this thread, or are you all just too busy the week before Christmas?

    Regardless, I’ll explain why I hate the pseudo-science of psychiatry and then explain specifically how I believe they will use psychiatry to label many Americans as prohibited possessors.

    If you study the Diagnostic Statistic Manual of Mental Health Disorders (the DSM-IV-TR) you will eventually discover that many normal behavior and personality quirks are labeled as mental illnesses. For example, they have turned coffee drinking into a mental illness (“Caffeine Related Disorder,” billing code 292.9).

    Why? Only in this way can the psychiatrist prescribe psychotropic drugs to handle his or her patient's condition. You see, the psychiatricizing of normal everyday behavior by including personality quirks and traits has become a lucrative business for big pharma, grossing tens
    of billions worldwide annually. By expanding the number of mental illnesses even ordinary people can become mental health patients and be added to the psychiatric marketing pool.

    Many people don't know this, but big pharma actually hires psychiatrists to invent, then publicize new mental health diseases. They actually sit around and brainstorm new disease ideas. It is junk science at its finest. The DSM-IV-TR is chock full of newly-discovered psychiatric disorders.

    For example, a young girl who has broken it off with several boyfriends, according to the DSM, is suffering from “Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder” (302.71). Aunt Dorothy, who hates to go to parties or any social gathering because she feels uncomfortable and shy has “Social Phobia” (300.23). Does your 10-year-old daughter dislike doing her homework? Better rush her to the nearest couch because she’s got “Developmental Arithmetic Disorder” (315.4). Maybe a teenager who argues with his parents. Oh-no. Better get him heavily medicated pronto because he’s got “Oppositional Defiant Disorder” (313.8).

    (See the following article for more on ODD: http://www.infowars.com/confirmed-ps...lly-ill/print/ )

    And the list of recently unearthed mental health disorders goes on and on. Bad writing and/or poor handwriting is “Disorder of Written Expression” (315.2). Sleeplessness after too much coffee is “Caffeine Induced Sleep Disorder” (292.89). Jet Lag is “Circadian Rhythm Sleep Disorder” (307.45). Smoking is “Nicotine Dependence” (305.1). Snoring is “Breathing Related Sleep Disorder” (780.59). And difficulty sleeping is “Insomnia” (307.42).

    And my favorite - if you are unwilling to seek professional psychiatric help, that, in and of itself is a serious mental problem – “Noncompliance With Treatment Disorder” (15.81). Trust me. I am not making these names up. They are all right there in the damn manual.

    The number of mental disorders identified in the manual has risen from 100 to over 300 in the last 15 years. That translated to a virtual epidemic of madness sweeping the country. Only a decade ago, psychiatrists said that “only” one in 10 Americans had a mental illness. Now, according to the DSM-IV-TR, more than half the population is mentally ill. The psychiatric “bible” will have to be updated frequently because mental health professionals keep discovering new illnesses.

    Of course, the greater the number of mental illnesses in the manual justifies more psychiatrists, government involvement and funding, widespread drugging of the public, involuntary commitment, and even electric shock therapy and brain surgery. It’s a self-perpetuating leviathan. More disorders gives us more psychiatrists and increased funding of psychiatry, which results in the discovery of more disorders and the development of more psychoactive pharmaceuticals, which then gives us more disorders and more drugs, and round and round the merry-go-round goes. Personally, I think it all needs to come to a screeching halt.

    The crooks running this medical scam are, of course, the drug company executives and psychiatric doctors who have apparently decided they will now do absolutely anything to sell more drugs, including labeling perfectly healthy people as sick.

    As the number of truly ill people in society is limited, these evil geniuses have figured out that the only way to increase their customer base is to start selling drugs to people who aren't sick. And the quickest way to do that is through disease mongering - inventing, then marketing non-existent diseases to a gullible population that has grown far too comfortable with the idea that every human behavior is now a disease.

    Have you ever seen a dark, horrifying psychiatric ward in a Hollywood movie such as was depicted in the flick “Kill Bill” ? You know, the kind where the patients are physically and sexually abused by hospital workers, overdosed with medications 24/7 to keep them sedated, and then deliberately killed off when the insurance money runs out. This isn’t Hollywood fiction. It's the way all psychiatric hospitals are run.

    The sordid history of psychiatry goes way back. The barbaric practices performed in the old turn-of-the-century insane asylums included such things as holes being drilled in the heads of patients to relieve brain pressure and to exorcise demons. Cages were installed on the heads of patients. Straight jackets, restraining tables, and shackles were common. One common therapy involved hosing down the patient and spinning him round and round on a chair in an attempt to rearrange his bad brain atoms. While psychiatry continued to develop newer methods, these too were almost always oppressive and based on nothing even remotely approaching any legitimate concept of science.

    During the 30’s and 40’s, psychologists in the Soviet Union and in Nazi Germany routinely diagnosed dissent as a mental illness. Designating political dissidents who are antagonistic towards the state as being psychological ill is a hallmark of tyranny. Treatment for political paranoia included everything from heavy-duty sedation with tranquilizers to torture with electric shocks. Many died from their “therapy.” The fields of psychology and psychiatry certainly didn’t improve throughout the rest of the 20th century.

    And just what did the soviet-style psychology develop into?

    Psychiatrists have a much higher incidence of marital problems, alcoholism, substance abuse, and depression than do the rest of the general population. Many psychiatrists self-medicate with psychotropic drugs – the official rate is16% but I believe the real stat is many times higher than that. And psychiatrists have the highest rate of suicide of any other profession (the rate of suicide for female psychologists is 3 times that of the general population). As many as 1 in 16 have actually attempted suicide. Even Sigmund Freud himself committed suicide.

    Patients held against their will in these psychiatric prisons are routinely physically restrained with 4-point leather restraints and drugged out of their minds to prevent them from communicating with their family and/or law enforcement authorities. Patients often die for mysterious reasons; called “iatrogenic deaths” by the medical establishment. And there have been persistent rumors in the medical communities that human organs are harvested for sale at some psychiatric hospitals.

    Civil rights for the mentally ill are essentially absent. Most states allow a hospital to hold an individual for only 72 hours until they see a judge. But all too often this is not a real judge but a "special justice” (with both a J.D. and a degree in psychiatry or psychology). And often these kangaroo court hearings are held right at the mental hospital without allowing the patient access to a private attorney! These hostages are evaluated by just two licensed mental health “experts” and they are the ones to judge whether or not the patient is mentally incompetent. No appeal is allowed.

    The sad truth is that modern psychiatry is in actuality one real life giant horror show, with senior citizens, adults, children, and even infants all being heavily medicated by an evil gang of big pharma-funded psychiatric doctors who are committing bloodcurdling crimes against humanity in the practice of their so-called "medicine."

    And it happens not only in major psychiatric hospitals, but also in thousands of medical offices nationwide. There are numerous cases of individuals who sought medical help for routine problems in life, such as sadness over the loss of a loved one, only to find themselves inextricably caught up in the gears of the psychiatric services industry machine, eventually ending up with permanent brain dysfunction and damage from drugs and even electroshock therapy.

    Several tens of thousands patients are kidnapped into involuntary commitment in state psychiatric hospitals each year, usually with a starting diagnosis of schizophrenia or depression. Over time, when the psychotropic drugs are increased in numbers and dosages, additional psychiatric diagnoses are added, resulting in permanent incarceration. Many tens of thousands people a year are “treated” with dangerous psychotropic poisons in these prison wards and the many hundreds of outpatient clinics across America.

    Additional millions more are receiving antipsychotics through sources outside the state mental hospital systems and long-term clinics. For example, millions of residents in nursing homes are on psychoactive drugs. Even homeless people in public shelters are sometimes forced to take them as a condition of their tenancy.

    And where has the mental health industry and drug therapy brought our nation?

    As Americans line up at their local pharmacy, documented side effects are legion: weight gain, deadened emotions, diabetes, heart problems, liver damage, stunted growth in kids, shortened life spans, and on and on. Those prescribed one psychoactive drug are commonly prescribed another to address side-effects, with many on daily cocktails of meds. An estimated 2.2 million Americans are hospitalized each year for adverse drug reactions. Over 100,000 die from them.

    Okay, back to the coming new gun ban…..

    The sad truth is that psychiatrists have recently release the latest version of the DSM which contains a whole slew of new psychiatric disorders. I personally predict that some future firearm legislation (ObamaBan?) will be coordinated with the DSM-V revision. Disqualifying psychiatric diagnoses will be used to abolish the Second Amendment rights of many Americans.

    One of the major changes to the DSM-V that I’m particularly suspicious about is the big idea for “Psychosis Risk Syndromes" (PRSs). This new diagnostic category is intended to lasso people who have mild symptoms that don’t quite constitute a psychotic disorder, such as "excessive suspicion, delusions and disorganized speech or behavior," so that they can be roped into the psychiatric services system while only slightly impaired.

    The idea of creating this and other "risk syndromes" is to come to a much earlier diagnosis and treatment to stave off full-blown conditions - a medical pre-crime system reminiscent of the movie “Minority Report.”

    Conceivably, these new PRSs diagnostic categories could be used to ban firearm ownership of many Americans.

    According to Psychiatrist Jared DeFife, Ph.D.,

    “Instead of the old ten personality types, DSM-V has simplified the system by cutting them down to just five: Antisocial/Psychopathic, Avoidant, Borderline, Obsessive-Compulsive, and Schizotypal types. Each type comes with a narrative paragraph description. Antisocial/Psychopathic types have inflated grandiosity and a pervasive pattern of taking advantage of other people. Avoidant types are inhibited from forming and maintaining relationships out of fears of humiliation and rejection.

    Borderline types show intense emotionality, impulsivity, internal feelings of emptiness, and fears of rejection. Obsessive-compulsive types are hyperfocused on details and are excessively stubborn, rigid, and moralistic. Schizotypal types are characterized by odd thinking and appearances or confused states.

    Clinicians simply read each paragraph length narrative description and rate on a 1-5 scale how much a patient matches each one (with 4 or 5 being a threshold for diagnosis). Research studies have found that clinicians tend to find this the most useful and comprehensive method for personality diagnosis, improving clinical description and treatment planning from the current system. The third and final element of the proposed system is a series of six personality "trait domains". These domains are based on the widely used five-factor model of personality.

    The six domains include: Negative Emotionality, Introversion, Antagonism, Disinhibition, Compulsivity and Schizotypy. Clinicians would be asked to rate each of the six domains on a 0-3 scale depending on how descriptive each is of the patient.To aid with this, each of the six domains comes with a subset of adjectives, or facets. Disinhibition, for example, encompasses: impulsivity, distractability, recklessness, irresponsibility. While there is a great deal of personality research on these factors, and they are useful for a variety of purposes, their greatest limitation is the sense of vagueness for clinical use. To compare, it would be like rating someone's level of usual sadness, as opposed to having a coherent syndrome of depression.” (“Psychology Today”, February 10th, 2010)

    How these changes will play out and what implications this will have regarding firearm freedom is yet to be seen. My best guess is that the new gun ban law will use a scoring system in which if one “rates” a high enough score they will qualify for prohibited possessor status.

    Regardless, the BOTTOM LINE is that PTSD was the camel’s nose, and other mental health diagnoses that will ban gun ownership, like Paranoid Personality Disorder, Road Rage Disorder, and maybe even Psychosis Risk Syndromes will follow soon.

    We are now in what is called the calm before the storm. They just want to get the electronic medical record infrastructure completely in place first before passing the next “mental health” gun ban law.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Augustin View Post
    Is anybody interested in this thread, or are you all just too busy the week before Christmas?
    I'll chip in.

    You had me at "pseudo-science."

    I haven't read all of your posts, yet. So, if I'm repeating, just ignore.

    Pyschiatry is a failure. After a sordid history that included torture to "modify" behavior, shoving ice-picks thru orbital bones into pre-frontal lobes (lobotomy--no, really, look it up), and shocking people (Hemingway suicided after he realized his electric shocks ruined his memory), psychiatry moved into the realm of psycho-active drugs. Which don't work--research the number of mass killers who had previously or were taking psychiatric drugs.

    Also, psychiatry has a long history of being used for political control. Less in this country, but check out places like South Africa, the Soviet Union, and so forth. The obvious contradiction of course is why did the psych's lock people up instead of just cure them?
    Last edited by Citizen; 12-18-2013 at 08:39 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Check out the dude in Virginia that got stuffed into a looney bin by the cops cuz some shrink said the dude was crazy. It took a judge a month or two to tell the cops, and I hope the shrink, that they were the crazy ones.

    Until then, your wall of text makes it difficult for folks to get interested in the issue. Folks like to read Reader's Digest versions and decide to do, or not do, from there. Why do you think the media writes at the first grade level.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I'll chip in.

    (snip)

    ...research the number of mass killers who had previously or were taking psychiatric drugs.
    Excellent point. The shadow government is staging all of, or at least most of these mass shootings using psychotropic drugs and mind control to condition the American public AND the American police into accepting some oppressive new gun control legislation.

    My hope is that some LEOs will see the title of this thread and will read my lengthy writings and wake up to what is really happening. It troubles me deeply that the Montana Sheriffs & Peace Officers Association claims to so very pro-2A while simultaneously supporting what they call the mental health community.

    We (law abiding gun owners who are not mentally ill) need the cops on OUR side if we have any chance at all in keeping our liberty.

    Check out the long list of shooters who were either on meds during their shooting or had just stopped taking them right before their rampage.

    This list is from an article on naturalnews.com called " Every mass shooting over last 20 years has one thing in common... and it's not guns." The link to the full article is below.

    • Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.

    • Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

    • Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

    • Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

    • Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

    • Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

    • Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

    • Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

    • A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

    • Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

    • A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

    • Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

    • TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

    • Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

    • James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

    • Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

    • Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California

    • Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

    • Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

    • Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

    • Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

    • Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

    • Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

    • Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

    • Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

    • Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".... the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil...")

    • Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002, (Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)

    • Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.

    • Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

    • Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

    • Woody __, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

    • A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

    • Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."

    • Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

    • Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

    • Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

    • Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

    • Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.

    The above list is from: http://www.naturalnews.com/039752_ma...pressants.html

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    ...your wall of text makes it difficult for folks to get interested in the issue. Folks like to read Reader's Digest versions and decide to do, or not do, from there. Why do you think the media writes at the first grade level.
    Yeah, I understand your criticism. And I anticipated someone bringing the length of my posts up.

    The thing is that what all I wrote is the condensed version. There is so much more about psychiatry I can write. I tried to focus JUST on that which pertains to how psychiatry will be used to take away gun rights of millions of people, but I had to include enough background to show just how phony psychiatry is.

    Also, many people are speed readers and can easily digest a short dissertation, if it is well written. I wanted to leave a record that law enforcement can reference. I don't think a bunch of three or four sentence posts can adequately explain the whole story.

    For those offended by my lengthy posts, I do apologize. I'm only trying to be proactive about our future and to help stave off the coming tyranny.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Augustin View Post
    Yeah, I understand your criticism. And I anticipated someone bringing the length of my posts up.

    The thing is that what all I wrote is the condensed version. There is so much more about psychiatry I can write. I tried to focus JUST on that which pertains to how psychiatry will be used to take away gun rights of millions of people, but I had to include enough background to show just how phony psychiatry is.

    Also, many people are speed readers and can easily digest a short dissertation, if it is well written. I wanted to leave a record that law enforcement can reference. I don't think a bunch of three or four sentence posts can adequately explain the whole story.

    For those offended by my lengthy posts, I do apologize. I'm only trying to be proactive about our future and to help stave off the coming tyranny.


    No, please accept my apologies.

  10. #10
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    Opinions and a stretch of the imagination.

    The "cites" offered are w/o source, dates and not clearly related to the subject.

    Do I think that medications in some perpetrators has contributed to the problem? Of course.

    Do I think that all people taking such drugs are a danger to themselves or society. Not even close.

    The OP makes certain reference as if the LEA community endorses or agrees with the direction he is headed - then later says he "is willing to bet" that he is right.

    I see his primary contribution here as building a wall of text and fulfilling a rant wish.....and w/o merit.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-22-2013 at 11:24 AM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  11. #11
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    Psychiatry does not work. It is a psuedo-science.

    If your mechanic cured your car at the same rate psychiatry cures mental illness, you'd fire the mechanic.

    Can you name one person you know who was cured by psychiatry? Not "treated". Cured. Not, "I feel a less depressed since taking the drugs." Cured. ???

    There is tons and tons of information available that leads to the conclusion that psychiatry does not work. In all of Augustins examples, if the drug worked, why did those people suicide?

    If psychiatry is so successful, has figured out mental illness, and can cure it, then why the big fuss some years ago when patients were turned out of asylums?

    Why do psych's tell people they will need "treatment" (drugs) for life?

    Why did Wilhelm Wundt just up and declare in the 1870s that man was just an animal with no soul--without publishing any results of any experiments to prove it? The implication of his "conclusion" being that men, and especially their thoughts and emotions, are just a collection of chemical reactions? Supposedly, psychiatry and psychology are sciences. Where are the experiments and their results that prove the theory?

    Why does psychiatry claim that IQ cannot be increased, is fixed at birth, without actually presenting the exact factors that prevent increasing IQ?

    The history of psychiatry is sordid, very sordid. In the late 1700's and 1800's they used methods that would today literally be called torture to "remove" unwanted behavior--ice water baths, tied in a chair, etc. As recently as the 1950's psychiatrists shoved an ice-pick around the eye and thru the bone behind the eye, then swept the ice-pick back and forth to perpetrate a "'pre-frontal lobotomy". Fact--look it up. That is what a lobotomy was. For years, they perpetrated electric and insulin shock on victims, some of who died. Literally, one of the explanations used was that the brain "needed a jolt to set it back into balance." No scientific experirments or scientifically explained rationale for exactly how it is supposed to work exists. These "methods" have been so discredited that lobotomy is gone. And, electro-shock therapy barely exists anymore.

    If psychaitry works, why was there a big issue some years ago when some states started releasing asylum inmates? You see it? If psychiatry worked, if it could cure people, nobody would be in institutions for life, and there would be no problem with releasing inmates--they would have already been cured.

    If anybody remembers, back in the 90's Prozac was reformulated to be "safer." This despite the manufacturer for years claiming the original version was totally safe. If it was so safe, why was it reformulated? But, the even bigger question is that if it cured depression, why do people have to take it for years and years and years? And, why do psych's say it "treats" instead of cures?

    Notice that side-effects of these anti-depression drugs include "suicidal ideation". Now, what exactly is "suicidal ideation"? Oh, that's easy, It means suicidal thoughts. Meaning, even the government has come out and said that drugs whose advertised purpose is to reduce depression must carry labels telling folks that one of the effects of these drugs is that they can cause thoughts of suicide.
    Last edited by Citizen; 12-22-2013 at 06:02 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Opinions and a stretch of the imagination.

    The "cites" offered are w/o source, dates and not clearly related to the subject.

    Do I think that medications in some perpetrators has contributed to the problem? Of course.

    Do I think that all people taking such drugs are a danger to themselves or society. Not even close.

    The OP makes certain reference as if the LEA community endorses or agrees with the direction he is headed - then later says he "is willing to bet" that he is right.

    I see his primary contribution here as building a wall of text and fulfilling a rant wish.....and w/o merit.
    Grapshot,

    Thank you for your time in looking over my posts and for your opinion. We'll agree to disagree. I'll let the other readers decide if I have my facts in order and if I've made an accurate prediction. And yes, I'll bet good gold that there is a some type of mental health gun legislation passed before Obummer's term is over. Time will tell. Thanks again.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Augustin View Post
    Grapshot,

    Thank you for your time in looking over my posts and for your opinion. We'll agree to disagree. I'll let the other readers decide if I have my facts in order and if I've made an accurate prediction. And yes, I'll bet good gold that there is a some type of mental health gun legislation passed before Obummer's term is over. Time will tell. Thanks again.
    That is not the same bet you made before - consistency counts.

    "Facts?" What "facts" would those be, sir? That you purport our "shadow government" is promoting, directing, or controlling through medication to cause a significant number of persons to kill others for purposes known to a few "responsible and intelligent" people. Let's not forget the claim that the shooter determined by actual crime scene investigation was not the actual one that pulled the trigger, but a stooge/shill for government assassins.

    The facts as presented might make colorful drama for a fictional Hollywood adventure where accuracy is not an issue. No sir, we'll not simply agree to disagree. I am in complete opposition to the both the premise as well as the conclusion. There is much wrong with both.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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