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Thread: Suspect Shot Dead In Green Bay By Police

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    Suspect Shot Dead In Green Bay By Police

    Another police killing. I wasn't there but why wasn't a taser used first? Ahhh! From my Pierce County Herald

    A man shot-and-killed by a police officer in Green Bay has been identified as 63-year-old Darold VandenHeuvel. Police said he showed up at his estranged wife's apartment complex early yesterday, even though a judge ordered him to stay away from her. The woman called 911, and two officers responded. Officials said they found VandenHeuvel carrying a handgun, and one of the officers shot-and-killed the man. Police have not said whether VandenHeuvel pointed his weapon at the officers or fired any shots. The shooter's name was not immediately released. He's a four-and-a-half year veteran of the Green Bay police force, and he's been put on administrative leave for now. Police say they'll submit their findings to Brown County prosecutors. An autopsy for VandenHeuvel is planned for today.

    http://www.piercecountyherald.com/co...tate-make-them

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Well if he pointed the gun at then turn why would they tase him? Also do they even carry tasers?

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    And you left out the part that she had a restraining order against him...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    ... a judge ordered him to stay away from her.
    "You bad boy, stay away from your wife!" "Stupid is as stupid does."
    Last edited by Nightmare; 12-17-2013 at 06:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Well if he pointed the gun at then turn why would they tase him? Also do they even carry tasers?

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    I believe I saw a taser on the Prescott PD. It was a yellow device.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Well if he pointed the gun at then turn why would they tase him? Also do they even carry tasers?

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    This is another reason not to talk to police. Some can't even comprehend. Somehow this cop translated "police haven't said whether [the deceased] pointed a gun..." into "well, if he pointed a gun..."

    Is there even a term for such a logical fallacy? What's the classic debate term for "seeing things that aren't written there"?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    [ ... ]Is there even a term for such a logical fallacy? What's the classic debate term for "seeing things that aren't written there"?
    Politically correct civility? Anti-bashing!

    Or neurosis/psychosis? Sir, stay safe and avoid the coming trainwreck.

    James Woolsey is given contemporary credit for we-can't-fix-what-we-can't-say, but I have found it as an epigraph in a book from the mid-Forties by a classically educated author. If'n when I stumble on it again, I'll cite it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    This is another reason not to talk to police. Some can't even comprehend. Somehow this cop translated "police haven't said whether [the deceased] pointed a gun..." into "well, if he pointed a gun..."

    Is there even a term for such a logical fallacy? What's the classic debate term for "seeing things that aren't written there"?
    Glad someone else picked up on that.

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    Illogical leaps of faith are department policy. Perp....err, dead perp, had gun.....for officer safety we shot the perp, which is why he is now dead. The RO is now moot.....BONUS!!!

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    Notice how quiet PIKBITES is on this issue and the one in Neillsville?

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    Yet another example where a firearm protected a person when a piece of paper was shown to be meaningless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    Notice how quiet PIKBITES is on this issue and the one in Neillsville?
    Maybe Pete is on vacation? I think Pete is a good cop, one of the best since he open carry's when not on duty in his civilian clothes and he stands up for everyone's rights as far as can be seen on this forum. Besides, with the P.C. crowd enmeshed in police departments all over the country if Pete made any comments that could be deemed "offensive" against other cops he could possibly lose his job.
    “The Constitution shall never be construed... to prevent the People of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.” -- Samuel Adams

    “Today, we need a nation of Minutemen. Citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by rcawdor57 View Post
    Maybe Pete is on vacation? I think Pete is a good cop, one of the best since he open carry's when not on duty in his civilian clothes and he stands up for everyone's rights as far as can be seen on this forum. Besides, with the P.C. crowd enmeshed in police departments all over the country if Pete made any comments that could be deemed "offensive" against other cops he could possibly lose his job.
    Yeah PC crowds are everywhere. Hope he can send a PM on this issue. I wonder when he OCs off duty, he still carries his badge? If so, that's a huge advantage.

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    well I knew it was not Brett .... he sent me an updated pic of his junk after the time of the shooting ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    well I knew it was not Brett .... he sent me an updated pic of his junk after the time of the shooting ...
    Hey, this is SUPPOSED to be a family level forum. I don't want to know how or why ANYONE would send you old or updated pics of their JUNK!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    I wonder when he OCs off duty, he still carries his badge?
    Never. I actually could get in trouble for that.

    And I try not to comment on these cases as I wasn't there anymore than any of you. Complete information is rarely given out at first as it can sku the pending investigation. And too many here are wayyy too eager to start bashing law enforcement without having the full facts of the case. Honestly, some of you sound like a bunch of gossiping, envious old grannies. So I try to resist the temptation to comment on some of the ridiculous posts I see on these boards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pkbites View Post
    Never. I actually could get in trouble for that.

    And I try not to comment on these cases as I wasn't there anymore than any of you. Complete information is rarely given out at first as it can sku the pending investigation. And too many here are wayyy too eager to start bashing law enforcement without having the full facts of the case. Honestly, some of you sound like a bunch of gossiping, envious old grannies. So I try to resist the temptation to comment on some of the ridiculous posts I see on these boards.
    AAH! I have been hit by a SCM! I think I am going to faint
    Last edited by Law abider; 12-20-2013 at 04:16 PM.

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    Green Bay PD again! This time on their own dashcam, posted to Facebook

    "A lawyer has posted video on Facebook showing what appears to be Green Bay police officers kicking a man to the pavement and repeatedly punching another man they have pinned to the pavement, the Green Bay Press Gazette reported Friday. Green Bay attorney Cole White represents NeeGee Cloud, 21, of Green Bay, who was arrested Nov. 6 and charged with resisting arrest and possession of a marijuana pipe in connection with the incident, the station reported. | Dec. 20, 2013"

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/wiscons...236819091.html

    http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/...osted-Facebook
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    Did you actual watch the dash cam footage I didn't see one kick. I did see the punches thrown against the one subject who wasn't listening and struggling to get off the ground so he wouldn't be hand cuffed

    So Nightmare how would you propose that the police take those to men into custody.

    Please tell us what you would have done to get then to listen to you, into hand cuffs then into the cruisers finally into jail.

    I am waiting for your expert and knowledgeable advice how they should have done it.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 12-22-2013 at 09:10 AM.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    So Nightmare how would you propose that the police take those to men into custody.

    Please tell us what you would have done to get then to listen to you, into hand cuffs then into the cruisers finally into jail.

    I am waiting for your expert and knowledgeable advice how they should have done it.
    See if they had tasers the wouldn't have needed to lunch or kick them so many times..... or if they just did what they were asked.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    or if they just did what they were asked.



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    Obey the lawful orders of a LEO now that's a novel Idea.

    I would bet the UOF would have been laying on the ground and having hand cuffs placed on you.

    Or maybe they should take some advise from Chris rock.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 12-22-2013 at 07:24 PM.
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    Somebody got tazed.....but they survived, so, there was no "unlawful" use of force.....just ask the cops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Did you actual watch the dash cam footage I didn't see one kick. I did see the punches thrown against the one subject who wasn't listening and struggling to get off the ground so he wouldn't be hand cuffed

    So Nightmare how would you propose that the police take those to men into custody.

    Please tell us what you would have done to get then to listen to you, into hand cuffs then into the cruisers finally into jail.

    I am waiting for your expert and knowledgeable advice how they should have done it.
    Such is the inherent criminality of the PC crowd within our own carry community. Nice to see that you'll step up to the plate to defend people who punch, and assualt/abuse someone because they are not co-operating. Will you also defend a store manager who beats an OC'er with a 2x4 because they wasn't co-operating with the manager's demands that they not carry within the store, even if the larger company policy allows it? Would you advocate and defend me if I rear-ended a person because they was purposely driving too slow?

    Someone on the ground, refusing to co-operate, civilly disobeying police attempts to arrest them. Granted that is illegal, but does that REALLY give -ANYONE- the right to start punching, or kicking, them?

    And I thought Sheeple didn't exist in OCDO.
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    He at least anti-bashes cops, if not is a self-serving ex-cop.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Such is the inherent criminality of the PC crowd within our own carry community. Nice to see that you'll step up to the plate to defend people who punch, and assualt/abuse someone because they are not co-operating. Will you also defend a store manager who beats an OC'er with a 2x4 because they wasn't co-operating with the manager's demands that they not carry within the store, even if the larger company policy allows it? Would you advocate and defend me if I rear-ended a person because they was purposely driving too slow?

    Someone on the ground, refusing to co-operate, civilly disobeying police attempts to arrest them. Granted that is illegal, but does that REALLY give -ANYONE- the right to start punching, or kicking, them?

    And I thought Sheeple didn't exist in OCDO.
    Oh boy! I didn't mean to start a ruckus. My general feeling has been that the police are quick to use violence before using non lethal means. TAZER first and if that doesn't work then a step up force before killing the perpetrator. I bet if we applied the stand your ground in public or castle doctrine in our home and shot the person FIRST rather than try to calm the situation down like they say we need to, I bet we'll be in jail ASAP. Guaranteed. In fact we do loose immunity if we don't. If you are a leo the guns will be blazing right now. Now I understand we have rouge cops and 'good' cops.

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