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Thread: Schools go into lockdown after volunteer asks to 'open carry' handgun

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Schools go into lockdown after volunteer asks to 'open carry' handgun

    Is this going overboard, or what?

    Millington Schools were briefly put on "modified lockdown" early Monday afternoon following an incident involving a gun.


    I'm sort of on the fence. On the one hand, I'd like to think the schools my boys go to would react this way to the threat of a gun on school property. On the other hand, this was someone "asking permission" to exercise her right to self defense.
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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Al, it appears she entered the school to ask permission while wearing an openly carried pistol on her hip. BTW, the school does not violate the law by going into "lockdown", the school did violate the law by saying she can't openly carry her pistol in the school, despite her showing them her CPL.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

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    She was all in her right to open carry at the school. BUT I think she should have asked permission before she brought it. She was a volunteer. Although well intentioned. The time and place to present the gun at the school is always a touchy subject.

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Sorry for being the Bull in a china shop but, WTF is wrong with school administrators? Just another example of "opinion enforcement". There is a reason "they" are so hell bent on brain-washing the "children" to see anyone who has a firearm (no matter how lawful that activity is) as evil, crazy, criminal. If you get to them young enough "they" think they can disarm the law-abiding classes without a fight in a matter of a few generations. They maybe right. Hence expelling kids for making finger guns or chewing a pop-tart into a toy pistol.
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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Sorry for being the Bull in a china shop but, WTF is wrong with school administrators? Just another example of "opinion enforcement". There is a reason "they" are so hell bent on brain-washing the "children" to see anyone who has a firearm (no matter how lawful that activity is) as evil, crazy, criminal. If you get to them young enough "they" think they can disarm the law-abiding classes without a fight in a matter of a few generations. They maybe right. Hence expelling kids for making finger guns or chewing a pop-tart into a toy pistol.
    I don't know if you saw the video, but, if you did, the parent of another child interviewed for the story are really the problem. The school board, as the constitutionally elected representatives of the community, are given the power to direct the functioning of the school district. The board could very easily tell administrators to follow the law and amazingly...it would most likely happen. When there are a number of parents that express the sentiments of the parent who was interviewed, boards are going to be loathe to do anything other than follow the "perceived" will of their constituents.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    Video of concerned Dad - he said he moved up there from Flint, and now it is much 'safer'. Actually the Dad with the 'Cal' ski hat is wrong in that regard - looks like his kids are completely unprotected. His interview didn't sound like the elementary schools have armed security guards, so being a GFZ, the place is wide open for potential shooters to attack w/o risk of anyone shooting back.

    I did take the quiz at the end of the news article - should law-abiding citizens be allowed to OC guns into schools - 75% of responses were YES.
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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    I don't know if you saw the video, but, if you did, the parent of another child interviewed for the story are really the problem. The school board, as the constitutionally elected representatives of the community, are given the power to direct the functioning of the school district. The board could very easily tell administrators to follow the law and amazingly...it would most likely happen. When there are a number of parents that express the sentiments of the parent who was interviewed, boards are going to be loathe to do anything other than follow the "perceived" will of their constituents.
    DrTodd -while I know your post comes from a well meaning place, it is akin to saying since a local mayor is constitutionally elected they will of course appoint a police chief who will instruct their officers to follow the law,and not attempt to enforce policy/opinion as law. Sorry, life has taught me that rarely happens. Usually the opposite occurs, a lacky is placed that will do the bidding of the boss man. I suspect school boards are not much different. They are usually comprised of people (union /supplier/ etc ties) staging to move up the political ladder, not well meaning folk who want to do the right thing for the school district and the parents/kids they serve. Any idiot can get elected to a school board for less than $5,000 & city council seats go for about $10,000 from what I've seen. As to the video, of course they interview the ghetto rat from Flint. They looked at him and said there's our anti, roll tape!

    Sorry to be a kill joy. But the poop head politician factory cranks them out in hoards at the local level. Sadly, where most people don't watch nor vote. These poop heads only grow stronger as the as they move to the state houses & eventually the halls of congress & the white house. Want to stop weeds, rip them out in your own back yard, before they have a chance to spread. Or we get the government we deserve....
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    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    Is this going overboard, or what?

    Millington Schools were briefly put on "modified lockdown" early Monday afternoon following an incident involving a gun.


    I'm sort of on the fence. On the one hand, I'd like to think the schools my boys go to would react this way to the threat of a gun on school property. On the other hand, this was someone "asking permission" to exercise her right to self defense.
    My sons are now grown and no longer in school but I do have grandkids still in school and I'd much prefer to have several parents/teachers/hell.. even the janitor.. carrying guns to address the next whacko that shows up wanting to shoot all the kids because it's a "gun free zone" (otherwise known as a "fish in a barrel zone") with a hail of bullets that put the whacko down before he can shoot up all the kids "locked down" in their classrooms.

    In my not so humble and likely not popular opinion.......

    The idea that banning guns (or locking down schools) will stop killings is a cowardly victim mentality that harm to most can be prevented by appeasing the killer with enough easy victims to sate his appetite to do harm (run out of bullets). The same mentality some animals in the wild have when they run away hoping the jackals will leave the herd alone because they will be busy eating the slow and infirm that couldn't run fast enough.

    The thing is... if the herd (armed teachers/parents/janitors) were to turn and confront the jackals and stomp them into the dust not only would the herd survive but so would the slow and infirm.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    Is this going overboard, or what?

    Millington Schools were briefly put on "modified lockdown" early Monday afternoon following an incident involving a gun.


    I'm sort of on the fence. On the one hand, I'd like to think the schools my boys go to would react this way to the threat of a gun on school property. On the other hand, this was someone "asking permission" to exercise her right to self defense.
    A properly holstered handgun is a threat? It seems that conflating situations is OK now. Ya know, school shooters are technically open carrying.

    A citizen follows the law, lawfully by the way, goes the extra mile, so to speak, and apparently complies with the "no way Jose" and she is the threat to the children's safety.....sheeze.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    All I will say (because she's asked me not to repeat what she told me) is:

    1. I know the woman this story is about.
    2. This story is filled with inaccuracies.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    Simpler to ask forgiveness than permission, as the saying goes.

    Personally, I think thank any school or school system that goes into lockdown because of a lawfully carried, holstered firearm on a person that has legitimate reason for being there, should be sued for slander and defamation of character. They, in essence, are saying that even though we are following the law, as well as taking it upon ourselves to protect other people and their children should the need arise, we who carry are no better than any common criminal. That runs them afoul of MCL 750.730 in my eyes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    All I will say (because she's asked me not to repeat what she told me) is:

    1. I know the woman this story is about.
    2. This story is filled with inaccuracies.
    How is that possible? This story conatins hardly any information: She went into the school armed. They put the school on lock-down.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    ...it appears she entered the school to ask permission while wearing an openly carried pistol on her hip...
    Where in the media has that been said?? (and is it accurate?)
    Last edited by BB62; 12-18-2013 at 11:11 AM.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    ...She went into the school armed...
    Again, where has that been said??

    You may assume it, it is suggested by the article, but it has certainly not been clearly stated that I've seen.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22Luke36 View Post
    Ask TheQ, he knows.
    Hint: TheQ isn't the media.

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    Regular Member OneForAll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22Luke36 View Post
    Then his story is probably accurate.
    Quoted for truth....
    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
    - Richard Henry Lee
    "The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
    - Samuel Adams

    Some random person, "I will not give up safety because of a few misplaced concerns of the uneducated." end quote...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Again, where has that been said??

    You may assume it, it is suggested by the article, but it has certainly not been clearly stated that I've seen.
    Carrie Sharp, WNEM TV5 news anchor and the reporter in the video story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Where in the media has that been said?? (and is it accurate?)
    From the article:
    Millington Schools Superintendent John Males tells WNEM.com that a woman who is a volunteer with the district went to Kirk Early Elementary and asked to open carry a handgun in the school.
    Last edited by notalawyer; 12-18-2013 at 12:50 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Carrie Sharp, WNEM TV5 news anchor and the reporter in the video story.
    Fair enough. Thank you.

    I'm used to the text of a story matching the video, as is the case around these parts.

    That being the case, I'll trust TheQ's statement about lots of inaccuracies in the story - especially since I have personal knowledge of multiple instances of same with other stories.

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    From the article: Millington Schools Superintendent John Males tells WNEM.com that a woman who is a volunteer with the district went to Kirk Early Elementary and asked to open carry a handgun in the school.
    Asking to OC a gun doesn't mean that one has a gun with them - although, as you pointed out, the video goes further than the text in respect to that matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Fair enough. Thank you.

    I'm used to the text of a story matching the video, as is the case around these parts.

    That being the case, I'll trust TheQ's statement about lots of inaccuracies in the story - especially since I have personal knowledge of multiple instances of same with other stories.
    This is why I asked. There are really only two points in either the video or the text:
    She asked to open carry (it has been reported the she was open carrying at the time) and the school went into lock down.

    How can that possibly translate into "lots of inaccuracies"? Did they get the name of the school wrong? or the individual involved? Did they get the day it happened wrong? etc.

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    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    This is why I asked. There are really only two points in either the video or the text:
    She asked to open carry (it has been reported the she was open carrying at the time) and the school went into lock down.

    How can that possibly translate into "lots of inaccuracies"? Did they get the name of the school wrong? or the individual involved? Did they get the day it happened wrong? etc.
    I think that is a fair question, I look forward to the answer to it.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    The district put all of its buildings into a "modified" lockdown as a security precaution until Males and Tuscola County Prosecutor Mark Reene had determined that the woman was off school property.
    She asked, it does not say that she was. The school "locked down" until she was off school property.....hmm.....why would they lock down the school, even partially, if she were unarmed. Because, even the mention of the word gun is enough to send bed wetters running to trap little kids in state provided kill zones.

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    Regular Member ken243's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    Al, it appears she entered the school to ask permission while wearing an openly carried pistol on her hip. BTW, the school does not violate the law by going into "lockdown", the school did violate the law by saying she can't openly carry her pistol in the school, despite her showing them her CPL.
    Locking down a school for the lawful actions of another is indeed a violation of law. Disturbing the peace. The core problem is more than likely discriminatory. If she entered the school with a lighter attached to a necklace are they going to pull the fire alarm? Exact same principal.
    Person in Home Depot: "Do you really think you need that?"
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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    DrTodd -while I know your post comes from a well meaning place, it is akin to saying since a local mayor is constitutionally elected they will of course appoint a police chief who will instruct their officers to follow the law,and not attempt to enforce policy/opinion as law. Sorry, life has taught me that rarely happens. Usually the opposite occurs, a lacky is placed that will do the bidding of the boss man. I suspect school boards are not much different. They are usually comprised of people (union /supplier/ etc ties) staging to move up the political ladder, not well meaning folk who want to do the right thing for the school district and the parents/kids they serve. Any idiot can get elected to a school board for less than $5,000 & city council seats go for about $10,000 from what I've seen. As to the video, of course they interview the ghetto rat from Flint. They looked at him and said there's our anti, roll tape!

    Sorry to be a kill joy. But the poop head politician factory cranks them out in hoards at the local level. Sadly, where most people don't watch nor vote. These poop heads only grow stronger as the as they move to the state houses & eventually the halls of congress & the white house. Want to stop weeds, rip them out in your own back yard, before they have a chance to spread. Or we get the government we deserve....
    I don't see where I said any such thing regarding mayor's et al. In fact, your example lends support to my contention. If the behavior is condoned, it perpetuates. If it is not condoned by the minion's superiors, the behavior will change sooner or later. If the board heard from 200 parents saying that what happened was ridiculous, policy would change. If the principal were to act contrary to board policy, the principal would no longer be employed.
    Last edited by DrTodd; 12-18-2013 at 10:17 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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