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Thread: Local LEO's enforcing federal law? Allowed or not?

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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Local LEO's enforcing federal law? Allowed or not?

    I'm a little behind on this question but I'll ask anyhow. I know that for a year now we have been reading stories about sheriffs across the land refusing to enforce any new federal gun laws. I was always told that local LE agencies can't enforce federal laws. So are these sheriffs saying this just to get support for the next sheriffs election, or is there more to the story? I have been told that local LE can detain you for a federal violation and wait for a federal agent to arrive to take custody of you, but not actually enforce federal law on their own.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    A LEO can enforce any law in his jurisdiction. If the federal offense takes place within the venue, the LEO can make a arrest. The case has to be prosecuted in a federal court though. A law is a law, and it is the officers job to enforce laws. A city police officer can make a arrest on a county ordinance, state law, or federal law, it goes the same for a deputy, or state police.

    Considering that most cases are tried in county courts usually state and local statutes are used for those offenses. It leaves the door open for federal prosecution should the local prosecution fail.
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    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    A LEO can enforce any law in his jurisdiction. If the federal offense takes place within the venue, the LEO can make a arrest. The case has to be prosecuted in a federal court though. A law is a law, and it is the officers job to enforce laws. A city police officer can make a arrest on a county ordinance, state law, or federal law, it goes the same for a deputy, or state police.

    Considering that most cases are tried in county courts usually state and local statutes are used for those offenses. It leaves the door open for federal prosecution should the local prosecution fail.
    I guess this is where my confusion is coming from because I have heard differently from local LEO where I live. I once had a city police officer tell me that he couldn't enforce federal law. Had a state trooper tell me a story of when he was working as a deputy in his hometown. This county didn't have any city police, only the sheriffs office and the state police. He said that the city put in place an ordinance that prohibited semi trucks from parking on the shoulder of the main roads. When he asked the city who would enforce this new ordinance,they said "you will." He told them that he was a county LEO and couldn't enforce city ordinances,but rather it had to be a city LEO to do so. He told them that they just wasted 2 weeks of their time because they have no one that can legally enforce their ordinance.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    I guess this is where my confusion is coming from because I have heard differently from local LEO where I live. I once had a city police officer tell me that he couldn't enforce federal law. Had a state trooper tell me a story of when he was working as a deputy in his hometown. This county didn't have any city police, only the sheriffs office and the state police. He said that the city put in place an ordinance that prohibited semi trucks from parking on the shoulder of the main roads. When he asked the city who would enforce this new ordinance,they said "you will." He told them that he was a county LEO and couldn't enforce city ordinances,but rather it had to be a city LEO to do so. He told them that they just wasted 2 weeks of their time because they have no one that can legally enforce their ordinance.
    I'm going to say it depends on the state apparently. Personally, I've been told straight out that we cannot enforce federal law. Now if that was our guys being cautious I don't know. Everything we do is based on state law. We dobt even have a federal code book to charge you with. Also we would have no place to bring you if we did charge you with a federal charge.

    The feds can idict you and pick you up based on our work. But as far as picking you up for a tail light then charging you federal laws.... no go.

    To better answer your question I'll ask around tonight to see when it gets switch to federal charges.

    So again I'm going to say no because we just don't do it. Is there possibly some crazy way some other state could? Maybe. Just saying what we dont do. Either I'll pm you with what I find or I'll post here for you.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    It seems from experience the way it goes is say we pick you up on heavy gun out drug charges. Well we charge you with said state law. The feds see that you were charged with say 48 lbs of something. They say ooohh good case. Then they can take over and charge you. But as far as us doing paperwork with a federal charge on it. No.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Here is a simple answer that should clear it up, unless there is a law/statute that says it is illegal it is legal. So unless there are laws that state a LEO cannot enforce ANY law it therefor is legal to enforce that law. Next time a LEO, or a wannabe LEO makes a claim, ask them for a cite. Laws are on the books to make things illegal, police are there to enforce laws on the books. For them not to be able to enforce certain laws, it would be a matter of law.

    Otherwise police officers could ignore the constitution, and it would be a defense against civil rights prosecution by the feds.

    Ohhhh wait some police officers DO ignore the constitution!

    Why in the he!! would sheriffs be refusing to enforce federal laws? Duhhhhhhhhhhh?
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 12-18-2013 at 10:48 AM.
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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    ...If the federal offense takes place within the venue, the LEO can make a arrest...
    Arrest for what?? Violating a law which is not in the jurisdiction of the officer? LOL

    Maybe you can come up with a cite other than "if it's not illegal it's legal"?
    Last edited by BB62; 12-18-2013 at 11:02 AM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Arrest for what?? Violating a law which is not in the jurisdiction of the officer? LOL

    Maybe you can come up with a cite other than "if it's not illegal it's legal"?
    I don't need a cite! If there is a law on the books it is the LEO's job to enforce it? Why don't YOU provide a cite that it is illegal for the officer to enforce the law?

    Again if it is not illegal it is legal, most people with intelligence get that, it only has been discussed on this board countless times.

    Please provide the law for the bold?
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 12-18-2013 at 11:06 AM.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Arrest for what?? Violating a law which is not in the jurisdiction of the officer? LOL

    Maybe you can come up with a cite other than "if it's not illegal it's legal"?
    +1 you nailed it. I'm certain there is a jurisdiction all issue here. Just trying to determine where it is before I play more info.

    Also ww..... you should know that there has to be a statute that actually grants an Leo the authority to enforce said laws. You have it backwards..... states will have a separate statute that will actually spell out what the police can do. So it grants powers not takes them away....

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    +1 you nailed it. I'm certain there is a jurisdiction all issue here. Just trying to determine where it is before I play more info.

    Also ww..... you should know that there has to be a statute that actually grants an Leo the authority to enforce said laws. You have it backwards..... states will have a separate statute that will actually spell out what the police can do. So it grants powers not takes them away....

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    Cite?
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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Cite?
    Police have powers. Citizens have rights.

    Clear enough?

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Police have powers. Citizens have rights.

    Clear enough?
    In most states citizens have the same powers of arrest for felonies they observe. In NC a citizen may not arrest, only detain.

    Conservation officers, marine officers typically enforce federal laws, every time a police officer holds a suspect on a warrant from another state it is based on federal law and the constitution.

    I really wished some of you actually know what you are talking about, before giving others false impressions that could get them in serious trouble.

    I would ask if that is clear enough but you have made it clear that you are in a fog.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 12-18-2013 at 11:50 AM.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    In most states citizens have the same powers of arrest for felonies they observe. In NC a citizen may not arrest, only detain.

    Conservation officers, marine officers typically enforce federal laws, every time a police officer holds a suspect on a warrant from another state it is based on federal law and the constitution.

    I really wished some of you actually know what you are talking about, before giving others false impressions that could get them in serious trouble.

    I would ask if that is clear enough but you have made it clear that you are in a fog.
    Correct and good example. Environmental police will patrol forests and enforce federal conservation laws. I cannot because that's out of my jurisdiction . When I see a guy on a quad in the street I arrest based on 90b charges. The states version of ATV laws. The state has most of mirroring charges..... guns drugs violent crime etc. We can arrest and charge at state level. Then of dea atf FBI want to take the case they piggy back and take the case. I dont just pick a guy up and drop him off at the US attorneys office and be like here ya go. You kind of made our point.

    Ww can you at least cite an example where you charged someone with a federal offense? Can you cite the chapter and section you used and the process you went through? Where did you bring him etc. Etc.



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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    In most states citizens have the same powers of arrest for felonies they observe. In NC a citizen may not arrest, only detain...
    And those powers are derived from where...?


    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    ..Conservation officers, marine officers typically enforce federal laws, every time a police officer holds a suspect on a warrant from another state it is based on federal law and the constitution...
    It may be "based on" federal law, but are you claiming there is no state enabling law/state mirroring law?
    Last edited by BB62; 12-18-2013 at 12:38 PM. Reason: added text for clarity

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    And those powers are derived from where...?



    It may be "based on" federal law, but are you claiming there is no state enabling law/state mirroring law?
    Did you even bother to attend school or listen?

    It is common law, has been since the inception of even before the US.

    You really have no clue do you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Did you even bother to attend school or listen?

    It is common law, has been since the inception of even before the US.

    You really have no clue do you?
    LOL

    And you still haven't provided the cites which have been requested multiple times.

    So, I guess this is a draw!

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Correct and good example. Environmental police will patrol forests and enforce federal conservation laws. I cannot because that's out of my jurisdiction . When I see a guy on a quad in the street I arrest based on 90b charges. The states version of ATV laws. The state has most of mirroring charges..... guns drugs violent crime etc. We can arrest and charge at state level. Then of dea atf FBI want to take the case they piggy back and take the case. I dont just pick a guy up and drop him off at the US attorneys office and be like here ya go. You kind of made our point.

    Ww can you at least cite an example where you charged someone with a federal offense? Can you cite the chapter and section you used and the process you went through? Where did you bring him etc. Etc.



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    Florida Marine Patrol routinely enforces federal law. I have also enforced federal laws both as a conservation officer and a deputy. Enforced and were funded by the federal government to enforce immigration laws. Border patrol also uses local and state laws for RAS to make stops on suspected vehicles. State DOT enforces federal laws on a daily basis.

    I never dropped anyone off at the US attorneys. I arrested took them to county jail for detention. Charges are then filed by prosecutors, just like any other crime. Without the ability to make arrests on federal or on the constitution local police would not be able to arrest on an out of state warrant. Because after all they have no jurisdiction in another state, and cannot enact laws for crimes in another state. The feds can and do, and it has always been constitutional to hold a prisoner for extradition to another state based on the US constitution.

    Honestly I don't understand how you could be a LEO and not know this stuff.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    LOL

    And you still haven't provided the cites which have been requested multiple times.

    So, I guess this is a draw!
    THERE ARE NO CITES FOR WHAT IS LEGAL! Your insistence to the contrary is totally ignorant!

    In fact the mods have made this point very clear on here.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Florida Marine Patrol routinely enforces federal law. I have also enforced federal laws both as a conservation officer and a deputy. Enforced and were funded by the federal government to enforce immigration laws. Border patrol also uses local and state laws for RAS to make stops on suspected vehicles. State DOT enforces federal laws on a daily basis.

    I never dropped anyone off at the US attorneys. I arrested took them to county jail for detention. Charges are then filed by prosecutors, just like any other crime. Without the ability to make arrests on federal or on the constitution local police would not be able to arrest on an out of state warrant. Because after all they have no jurisdiction in another state, and cannot enact laws for crimes in another state. The feds can and do, and it has always been constitutional to hold a prisoner for extradition to another state based on the US constitution.

    Honestly I don't understand how you could be a LEO and not know this stuff.
    Ww what were the charges you would enforce? As asked was there a specific statute that alllowes you enforce said laws? We are GIVEN power by the laws themselves. Maybe your state had a clause that allowed that. I won't even ask for a cite because you won't provide one.

    So you would drop a guy off for detention and the prosecutor would file charges? What? You wouldn't file charges? You guys have a prosecutor on at 3am? Or did you PD have operating hrs?

    And finally... you can only hold someone on an out of state warrant if you have an intradition agreement. For example I had a girl stopped a few months ago. She had a hit for a warrant from RI. It was a bogus drunk in public charge. Only a misdemeanor. It said right o the Ncics hit that they would NOT come get her because it was a misdemeanor. So she got kicked loose. Some states don't have agreements on certain warrants. On the flip side I have locked a guy up on an out of state warrant. He was a bail jumper from Georgia I believe. It wasn't Georgia warrant that gave me power it was my states version and charge. It was a a complete separate charge and warrant from my state that gave me power to arrest him. But that charge was based on him fleeing Georgia.



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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    PS . .. pretty sure I spelt intradition wrong. Its like extradition which is out of country. Intradition is between states in the country.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Ww what were the charges you would enforce? As asked was there a specific statute that alllowes you enforce said laws? We are GIVEN power by the laws themselves. Maybe your state had a clause that allowed that. I won't even ask for a cite because you won't provide one.

    So you would drop a guy off for detention and the prosecutor would file charges? What? You wouldn't file charges? You guys have a prosecutor on at 3am? Or did you PD have operating hrs?

    And finally... you can only hold someone on an out of state warrant if you have an intradition agreement. For example I had a girl stopped a few months ago. She had a hit for a warrant from RI. It was a bogus drunk in public charge. Only a misdemeanor. It said right o the Ncics hit that they would NOT come get her because it was a misdemeanor. So she got kicked loose. Some states don't have agreements on certain warrants. On the flip side I have locked a guy up on an out of state warrant. He was a bail jumper from Georgia I believe. It wasn't Georgia warrant that gave me power it was my states version and charge. It was a a complete separate charge and warrant from my state that gave me power to arrest him. But that charge was based on him fleeing Georgia.



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    Statutes does not tell WHO to enforce the laws, in most cases, they just state what is illegal. And in some cases such as concealed carry exceptions to what is illegal. If the law had to spell out WHO enforced the law, then no laws would be enforced.

    Have you seen anything in the BOR 4th or 5th amendment that mentions police?

    Mass cannot charge a person with a act in Georgia! No matter what law they enact, it is unconstitutional. They can arrest and hold on federal and constitutional authority. So again without federal stepping in no arrest or detention.

    Bounty hunters are a classic example, their power to retrieve a jumper in another state is based on a FEDERAL SCOTUS decision. The states only enact laws what they can't do, and the standards they have to meet, not what they can do. That is not the purpose of laws.

    Also the military is blocked from enforcing civilian local, state, and federal law by a law. Posse Comitatus Act, making illegal for active duty soldiers to act as police except under exceptions spelled out in the law. For a law to have a exception it would have to be a law in the first place.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 12-18-2013 at 01:38 PM.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Statutes does not tell WHO to enforce the laws, in most cases, they just state what is illegal. And in some cases such as concealed carry exceptions to what is illegal. If the law had to spell out WHO enforced the law, then no laws would be enforced.

    Have you seen anything in the BOR 4th or 5th amendment that mentions police?

    Mass cannot charge a person with a act in Georgia! No matter what law they enact, it is unconstitutional. They can arrest and hold on federal and constitutional authority. So again without federal stepping in no arrest or detention.

    Bounty hunters are a classic example, their power to retrieve a jumper in another state is based on a FEDERAL SCOTUS decision. The states only enact laws what they can't do, and the standards they have to meet, not what they can do. That is not the purpose of laws.

    Also the military is blocked from enforcing civilian local, state, and federal law by a law. Posse Comitatus Act, making illegal for active duty soldiers to act as police except under exceptions spelled out in the law. For a law to have a exception it would have to be a law in the first place.
    I'll loom up the exact charge that was used on that warrant and I'll post it as a cite.

    And I hate to say it but statutes do spell out our exact police powers. I'll also post that as a cite.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    I'll loom up the exact charge that was used on that warrant and I'll post it as a cite.

    And I hate to say it but statutes do spell out our exact police powers. I'll also post that as a cite.

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    The charge on the warrant has nothing to do with it, it has to do with the constitution of the US. A charge in Georgia means diddly without the authority provided by the constitution to hold that person for a charge in another state. YOUR state cannot prosecute, and and Georgia has to do the leg work for the prisoner to be turned over to them.

    AGAIN MASS cannot prosecute for a crime committed in another state! They can only detain that person until due process is completed to hand them over to Georgia authorities. Are you sure you attended the academy?
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    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    PS . .. pretty sure I spelt intradition wrong. Its like extradition which is out of country. Intradition is between states in the country.

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    No such word, except in the "Urban Dictionary." And, that "definition" does not jive with what you claim.

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