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Open carry and school zones

fix everything

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Messages
12
Location
Franklin, WI
First I apologize if my thread title is misleading. I'm new to open carry, and fully understand that carrying ON school grounds is verboten. I also know that the law says I am to not be within 1000 ft of a school zone.

However, I find myself in something of a puzzling situation. I live in a mobile home community, the driveway of which opens onto a main street in my town. Directly across from this driveway is the grounds of the local high school. The school itself is set a fair ways back from the street (I don't know if it's a full 1,000 feet or not though). I come and go from my home several times a day, either walking, driving, or riding (tractor, motorcycle, or bicycle), meaning I'm as close as 5ft to the school grounds.

What actually constitutes "school zone"? The school itself and the sidewalk surrounding it? The school, its sidewalk, and its parking lots? The school and the complete property upon which it resides? The last thing I want is to find myself in a legal predicament while doing something as simple as walking to the gas station or the restaurant next door.

I thank everybody in advance.
 

BennieH

New member
Joined
Aug 10, 2013
Messages
7
Location
Wisconsin
948.605  Gun-free school zones.

(2) Possession of firearm in school zone.
(a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is in or on the grounds of a school is guilty of a Class I felony. Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school is subject to a Class B forfeiture.
(b) Paragraph (a) does not apply to the possession of a firearm by any of the following:
1m. A person who possesses the firearm in accordance with 18 USC 922 (q) (2) (B) (i), (iv), (v), (vi), or (vii).
1r. Except if the person is in or on the grounds of a school, a licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out-of-state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g).

175.60(1)(d)

( d ) "Licensee" means an individual holding a valid license to carry a concealed weapon issued under this section.

I live across the street from a school and as a concealed carry permit holder I am legal. Also before the CCW in Wisconsin, when I went hunting I put the gun in the car on my property (cased, etc) I was legal per our DA at the time that the school zone law came into being.
 

fix everything

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Messages
12
Location
Franklin, WI
948.605  Gun-free school zones.

(2) Possession of firearm in school zone.
(a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is in or on the grounds of a school is guilty of a Class I felony. Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school is subject to a Class B forfeiture.
(b) Paragraph (a) does not apply to the possession of a firearm by any of the following:
1m. A person who possesses the firearm in accordance with 18 USC 922 (q) (2) (B) (i), (iv), (v), (vi), or (vii).
1r. Except if the person is in or on the grounds of a school, a licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (d), or an out-of-state licensee, as defined in s. 175.60 (1) (g).

175.60(1)(d)

( d ) "Licensee" means an individual holding a valid license to carry a concealed weapon issued under this section.

I live across the street from a school and as a concealed carry permit holder I am legal. Also before the CCW in Wisconsin, when I went hunting I put the gun in the car on my property (cased, etc) I was legal per our DA at the time that the school zone law came into being.


I've read those, but unfortunately that still doesn't answer my questions. What actually constitutes "school zone"? The school itself or the entire property the school sits upon? I'm signed up for a class so that I can apply for my conceal carry, but the class isn't until mid-January. In the interim I'm wanting to make sure I'm in full compliance, and that is why I am asking these questions.
 

Law abider

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
1,164
Location
Ellsworth Wisconsin
I've read those, but unfortunately that still doesn't answer my questions. What actually constitutes "school zone"? The school itself or the entire property the school sits upon? I'm signed up for a class so that I can apply for my conceal carry, but the class isn't until mid-January. In the interim I'm wanting to make sure I'm in full compliance, and that is why I am asking these questions.

Stay on the other side of the street to be safe. Applicable with a CCL only. Otherwise stay away in excess of 1000ft. Velkomen to da blog. become a member of Wisconsin Carry also. Check out their website at wisconsincarry.org.
 
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NoTolerance

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
292
Location
Milwaukee, WI
The school zone extends 1000' from the property line (grounds) of the school.

Private property is exempt from the GFSZ rule, so you're fine in your mobile home community itself. Once off the private property, you must have your firearm unloaded and encased.
 
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fix everything

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Messages
12
Location
Franklin, WI
The school zone extends 1000' from the property line (grounds) of the school.

Private property is exempt from the GFSZ rule, so you're fine in your mobile home community itself. Once off the private property, you must have your firearm unloaded and encased.

Fair enough, thanks.
 

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
welcome aboard!

"What actually constitutes "school zone"?"
The information you want is in the paragraph before the info you've already found.

According to 948.605(1)(c):
(c) "School zone" means any of the following:
1. In or on the grounds of a school.
2. Within 1,000 feet from the grounds of a school.

948.61(1)(b) says:
"School" means a public school, parochial or private school, or tribal school, as defined in 115.001(15m), which provides an educational program for one or more grades between grades 1 and 12 and which is commonly known as an elementary school, middle school, junior high school, senior high school, or high school.

115.001(15m) says:
"Tribal school" means an institution with an educational program that has as its primary purpose providing education in any grade or grades from kindergarten to 12 and that is one of the following:
(a) Controlled by the elected governing body of a federally recognized American Indian tribe or band in this state

Notice that for everything but a tribal school, "school" means grades 1-12.
For a tribal school, "school" includes K.

Most people I've talked with who have studied the firearms laws applying to regular people think that the sidewalk in front of the school is public property, not part of the school grounds.
DO NOT set foot onto anything from the sidewalk toward the school!
But it would be safer to stay in the street or on the sidewalk across the street.

Hope that helps.
 
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MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
Oh, and while you're on your property, or any other non-public property (not the sidewalk, street, etc.) you are exempt from the "gun-free" school zone law even without having your ccl because one of the exemptions for being armed in a school zone is to be on private property, even if it's right next to or across from the school

See that bit of federal code referenced in our "gun-free" school zone law?
18USC922(q)(2)(b) is the federal version, and it's slightly different (requires a locked case).
But subsection (i) says the law doesn't apply "on private property not part of school grounds".

IANAL,NDIPOOTV :D

Another of the exemptions in the WI law is to have the firearm unloaded & encased.
Until you get your license, that's how you'll have to transport it anywhere except on private property.
 
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fix everything

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Messages
12
Location
Franklin, WI
I was talking with a co-worker today who also open carries. He made mention of a law change that that would do away with the 1000'ft rule or at least minimize it, but he wasn't sure if it was something that was actually passed or if it's something still in the works. His understanding of it was that it was the fix for situations like this. Does anybody know if there is any truth to this? I'm not expecting to be allowed on school grounds themselves while carrying, but it would be nice to not have to disarm and unload just to go across the street to the gas station or deli (both of which are properties that neighbor the school grounds).
 

Franky

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Messages
271
Location
popple butte
Stay on the other side of the street to be safe. Applicable with a CCL only. Otherwise stay away in excess of 1000ft. Velkomen to da blog. become a member of Wisconsin Carry also. Check out their website at wisconsincarry.org.

Interesting you tell the person to join WCI. I am very leery of an organization such as WCI because of the fact the guy who runs it has never released the actual number of members in the club since it was formed.

Could be as little as a dozen members or in the thousands, the guy is very secretive.
 

Plankton

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
398
Location
Just north of the Sheeple's Republik of Madistan
Interesting you tell the person to join WCI. I am very leery of an organization such as WCI because of the fact the guy who runs it has never released the actual number of members in the club since it was formed.

Could be as little as a dozen members or in the thousands, the guy is very secretive.

Or you could go here:http://www.wisconsincarry.org/
VERY TOP SECRET.:lol:
 
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MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
fix everything said:
a law change that that would do away with the 1000'ft rule or at least minimize it, but he wasn't sure if it was something that was actually passed or if it's something still in the works.
When our cc law was created, they changed our "gun-free" school zone law so that if you're in the magical 1000' zone without a license, it's a ticket. Used to be a crime.
Right now, that's about as good as it gets.
It would be nice if WI would conform to the federal "GF"SZ law so anyone with a carry license could be anywhere on the grounds or in the magical bubble and be legal.

it would be nice to not have to disarm and unload just to go across the street to the gas station or deli (both of which are properties that neighbor the school grounds).
Right now, the only way to do that is to get a license from the state in which the school sits.
 

Franky

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2013
Messages
271
Location
popple butte
I see Doug is still upset about not joining WI Carry.
"has never released the actual number of members"
They've been released to any member who asks.

Your statement is false. I see my name still listed on the founders club page since 2009. I asked the guy in charge personally back then at a luncheon at the Thunder Bay eat joint. Never got a straight answer. That was the beginning of my departure from the club.
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
First I apologize if my thread title is misleading. I'm new to open carry, and fully understand that carrying ON school grounds is verboten. I also know that the law says I am to not be within 1000 ft of a school zone.

However, I find myself in something of a puzzling situation. I live in a mobile home community, the driveway of which opens onto a main street in my town. Directly across from this driveway is the grounds of the local high school. The school itself is set a fair ways back from the street (I don't know if it's a full 1,000 feet or not though). I come and go from my home several times a day, either walking, driving, or riding (tractor, motorcycle, or bicycle), meaning I'm as close as 5ft to the school grounds.

What actually constitutes "school zone"? The school itself and the sidewalk surrounding it? The school, its sidewalk, and its parking lots? The school and the complete property upon which it resides? The last thing I want is to find myself in a legal predicament while doing something as simple as walking to the gas station or the restaurant next door.

I thank everybody in advance.

The big question is do you have a CCL? If you have a CCL, you can walk up to the edge of school property, just not on it.

I live by Wilson Meats in Elkhorn and have been open carrying in Elkhorn for over 3 years. Feel free to come to the meet and greet we are having the 1st Sunday of January (and every month) at the Culvers in Delavan from 1-3 pm.
 

fix everything

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Messages
12
Location
Franklin, WI
Thanks for the response Paul. I have no issue with not being allowed on school grounds while carrying, I just wanted to clear up how my situation would turn out. I'll have to see what my work schedule is like, I typically work Sunday afternoons but I would love to attend
 

jpm84092

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
1,066
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah, USA
It is too bad that legislators in my home State of Wisconsin do not take a lesson from Utah. In Utah, anyone with a Concealed Firearm Permit may carry on school grounds, including into the classroom while students are present. This applies to any school that receives tax money from pre-K through Institutes of Higher Learning. However private schools that are privately funded (example: BYU) may prohibit firearms on campus grounds, but non on public routes of travel (sidewalks, streets, etc.).

In the past 12 months, the Utah Shooting Sports Council has sponsored three FREE classes to any Utah teacher who wants to obtain a Utah CFP to be able to carry in the classroom. To date, we have taught over 275 Utah educators and provided fingerprint, photo, lunch, and help with the application. In the 12 years that it has been legal in Utah there have been no instances of teachers going "postal" on their kids and no incidents of kids getting guns away from teachers. There have also been no instances of school violence with firearms. Is that just "good luck", or does allowing teachers to be armed work?

Link: http://www.kutv.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_8968.shtml

link: http://fox13now.com/2014/01/03/free-concealed-carry-class-held-for-utah-teachers/

The Yellow Cat has been very happy to volunteer his time to these efforts because as we all know, when seconds count, the Police are several minutes away (at best). And, training our teachers to have the knowledge, skills, and attitude to safely, competently, and confidently carry a firearm to protect themselves and their students is perhaps the very best way to prevent another Sandy Hook like tragedy. Gun Free Zones do not deter criminals or the mentally unbalanced. They just disarm honest, law-abiding, and often very caring citizens.

But, on this forum, I am "preaching to the choir'". Still, it might be good to put a bug in the ear of one or more gun friendly Wisconsin legislators.

Yellow Cat Out -
 

Running Wolf

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
391
Location
Corner of No and Where
training our teachers to have the knowledge, skills, and attitude to safely, competently, and confidently carry a firearm to protect themselves and their students is perhaps the very best way to prevent another Sandy Hook like tragedy.

If only this could fit on a bumper sticker. We could hand them out at schools around the state . . .
 
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