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Thread: Another school board looking to ban open carry.

  1. #1
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Another school board looking to ban open carry.

    Trustees want tougher gun-carry ban in schoolsI had to look this town up. I didn't realize it was in Michigan.

    I especially liked the comment by the proposer of the ban:
    "Police officers go through advanced training – he puts himself in harm's way to protect the citizens of community, and he's trained for that," McGinnis said. "My concern is with people, especially people who recently got a concealed permit, went through one or two days of training, now they're an expert – in an emergency, if they're not truly prepared, it could be turned and used on them."
    Like she even knows who I, or any other OCer really is. She has NO CLUE how much training I've had, or not had. It's people who assume this stuff that really tick me off.
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    Regular Member Ezerharden's Avatar
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    Lets see, I am an Army Veteran (combat Veteran), have 13 years experience in armed Nuclear Security, and I am not as qualified as some cop who spends a few hours a year on a range?

    I see again the same inaccuracies in thought and reporting, such as:

    "You can't take a gun into banks, church, courts, theaters, sports arenas, day care centers, hospitals, and bars, but you can into school? I have a real problem with that," he said.
    and:

    "I'm very comfortable with sending a resolution to the legislature saying we don't think this is a good idea," Egan said. "You can't carry in state legislature. If that's good for them, why not for students?"
    Both are inaccurate statements.

    But you can't use logic, facts, and reason with liberals, they are allergic to them.

    God I wish they had a comments section! I did however email the author to "educate" him.
    Last edited by Ezerharden; 12-20-2013 at 04:32 AM.
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  3. #3
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    If a person with ill-intent came into my children's school and began shooting, I wouldn't care how much training another person who is willing to shoot the miscreant has. My humble opinion is that, at the point someone starts shooting, any opposition is better than none. Even if, as the superintendent believes, the miscreant takes the person's gun and uses it against them, at a minimum it slows them down. Of course, having people trained appropriately is better, but much like almost any other emergency situation, intervention by anyone is desirable in comparison to the alternative.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Yes, we have seen the elite-training requirement from the anti's before, pushing US onto their slippery slope.

    "Shall not be infringed" has become politically correct elite training required.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  5. #5
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezerharden View Post
    Lets see, I am an Army Veteran (combat Veteran), have 13 years experience in armed Nuclear Security, and I am not as qualified as some cop who spends a few hours a year on a range?

    I see again the same inaccuracies in thought and reporting, such as:



    and:



    Both are inaccurate statements.

    But you can't use logic, facts, and reason with liberals, they are allergic to them.

    God I wish they had a comments section! I did however email the author to "educate" him.
    Ezerharden, it is sad they don't understand the law well enough to realize that...sadder yet that they were most likely advised by legal counsel.
    The schools around Grand Rapids that have asked the legislature to "ban handguns" from schools have asked that they be added to the places listed in MCL 750.237d. Of course, they don't realize that pistols are already prohibited in the same manner as what they are asking in MCL 750.237a(4).
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    If a person with ill-intent came into my children's school and began shooting, I wouldn't care how much training another person who is willing to shoot the miscreant has. My humble opinion is that, at the point someone starts shooting, any opposition is better than none. Even if, as the superintendent believes, the miscreant takes the person's gun and uses it against them, at a minimum it slows them down. Of course, having people trained appropriately is better, but much like almost any other emergency situation, intervention by anyone is desirable in comparison to the alternative.
    "A shoot-out is better than a massacre!"

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    It's very strange that the MSM keeps repeating the lie that open carry is banned in bars banks etc. in Michigan.

    It's like purposeful misinformation

  8. #8
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    It's very strange that the MSM keeps repeating the lie that open carry is banned in bars banks etc. in Michigan.

    It's like purposeful misinformation
    That's because they never read all of the applicable laws. Consequently, they're totally ignorant.
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  9. #9
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    That's because they never read all of the applicable laws. Consequently, they're totally ignorant.
    Exactly!
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  10. #10
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    This situation is double edged.

    More school boards passing this type of resolution is generally not good. However, as they are all getting the laws very wrong, and most are passing these resolutions without having an issue themselves, they are making themselves appear illegitimate. IE, emotional.

    It's hard to tell if this is hurting or helping them.

  11. #11
    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    Personally, I think they've opened themselves up to some serious lawsuits here. I think that any school administration that takes a law abiding citizen and lumps them in with common criminals in the way they treat us, should be sued for defamation. A holstered weapon, contrary to recent thinking by paranoid people in GR and various school systems, does NOT constitute a threat, and the treatment of it as such is a violation the laws.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Raggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeSchaine View Post
    Personally, I think they've opened themselves up to some serious lawsuits here. I think that any school administration that takes a law abiding citizen and lumps them in with common criminals in the way they treat us, should be sued for defamation. A holstered weapon, contrary to recent thinking by paranoid people in GR and various school systems, does NOT constitute a threat, and the treatment of it as such is a violation the laws.
    It would be nice if a defamation lawsuit could be won, not sure it could though.
    My reasons to OC
    1. to raise awareness of the legality of open carry in Michigan
    2. To raise awareness that good people carry guns
    3. A deterrent to people so that I won't be targeted
    4. Because it's more comfortable than CC in most situations
    5. Because I can and want to
    6. Because it's perfectly legal
    7. Self defense

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    I believe it just be winnable with the proper approach. If anyone wish to know what that approach is please pm me and will gladly share for critical honest review. I won't post openly as that is giving information to Troll's and was trained better then that. There are the tools to do it with and many of them current research from groups that are not pro gun. Anyway until we can get someone to directly challenge it is a mental exercise in court debate (which is only useful if preparing for court action). So Best to prepare and build a battle chest as this is going to be ugly no matter how it pans out. -Michael

  14. #14
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    Not everyone thinks guns in schools is a bad idea:

    http://gunssavelives.net/news/ga-sch...hool-property/

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    Regular Member fozzy71's Avatar
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    http://www.candgnews.com/news/school...rearms-schools


    ROSEVILLE
    December 22, 2013
    School board opposes open carry of firearms in schools



    ROSEVILLE — During its Dec. 16 meeting, the Roseville Community Schools Board of Education approved a resolution in support of prohibiting openly carrying firearms within any school buildings.


    Superintendent John Kment said the resolution throws the district’s support behind what he considers a hole in Michigan’s penal code, which does not ban openly carrying guns into schools.


    ....
    "I like users who quote smellslikemichigan in their signature lines." - fozzy71

  16. #16
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Folks - just pointing out the obvious (I hope), this is clearly a coordinated effort on the part of MI school systems. I wouldn't be surprised if there may even be false reports of open carriers on tap for the future on their agenda to keep the "loop hole" issue in the media. Enough "lock downs" false or not - may prompt the hemorrhoids in Lansing to give them what they want. A TOTAL BAN on legal firearms in schools across Michigan. FYI...
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 12-27-2013 at 09:58 PM.
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  17. #17
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Folks - just pointing out the obvious (I hope), this is clearly a coordinated effort on the part of MI school systems. I wouldn't be surprised if there may even be false reports of open carriers on tap for the future on their agenda to keep the "loop hole" issue in the media. Enough "lock downs" false or not - may prompt the hemorrhoids in Lansing to give them what they want. A TOTAL BAN on legal firearms in schools across Michigan. FYI...
    My guess is that the Michigan Association of School Boards is involved in this.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  18. #18
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drtodd View Post
    My guess is that the Michigan Association of School Boards is involved in this.
    ^^^This!^^^
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 12-28-2013 at 08:40 PM.
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  19. #19
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    It wouldn't surprise me to discover that Soro's "mini me" Bloomberg and his money are involved in using school boards as a way of pressuring legislators to attack the right to bear arms.

    Do I need a tin foil hat? Or could that be a possibility considering how low and sneaky liberals operate?
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    My guess is that the Michigan Association of School Boards is involved in this.
    Your guess is correct. I received this as part of an email from them on October 18, 2013:

    Resolution Addressing Open Carry of Firearms in Schools

    Current law lists the places where it is prohibited to carry a firearm including day care centers, hospitals and sporting arenas, but does not specifically list public schools. Recently, it has been brought to MASB’s attention that this has become an issue in a few of our schools. People who have a legal right to carry a firearm openly are entering our schools and the schools, upon seeing the weapon, enter into a lockdown. This unnecessarily disrupts the day for the students and a public school has no recourse to ban the weapon on its grounds.

    This week, Rockford Public Schools passed a resolution urging the Michigan Legislature to add schools to the list of places where it is prohibited to openly carry a firearm. MASB supports their efforts and urges any of our members who are facing similar situations to join Rockford in adopting this resolution.

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    Arminger:

    ..., and I would Reply This:

    Unfortuately, Current Michigan Codified Law 750.237a(5)(c) and Public Act 319 of 1990 Preempt and Preclude Your Unlawful Resolution from having The Effect of Law.
    You would be Wise to Reconsider, and to Remember, The Precedent Created under The CADL Ruling Regarding The Courts' Finding that The State of Michigan has so Extensively Regulated into The Subject that Your Resolution would Surely Meet a Similiar Fate.

    Please Reconsider again, as Lawsuits are Costly, and Declartory Judgements are even Costlier!

    Respectfully Submitted,

    X

  22. #22
    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    Thats awesome. I applaud that.

  23. #23
    Regular Member DeSchaine's Avatar
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    An interesting little development that I have to shine a light on. While reading the article, I noticed the reporter, Mr. Custodio made no mention of what the correct laws actually were, just the opinion of that ignorant Superintendent. In the interest of fairness, I sent the reporter an email, with a link to MSP Update 86.

    Sir,

    I ask that correct something in this article. You quoted Dr. Rod Rock as saying "You can't take a gun into banks, church, courts, theaters, sports arenas, day care centers, hospitals, and bars, but you can into school? I have a real problem with that,"

    Dr. Rock is sadly uninformed. According to Sec. 234d, sub 2c, of the MI Penal Code, any person licensed by this state or another state may carry in those areas. I refer you to Michigan State Police Legal Update 86, published Oct. 26, 2010. http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...2_336854_7.pdf

    In the interest of fairness and accurate reporting, I ask that you amend your article to reflect this information and make it clear that Dr. Rock's view is wrong.

    Thank you for your time sir.
    Lo and Behold,Mr. Custodio changed the article. Granted, it was only a small paragraph, but to me thats a small win for OC'ers. I only wonder how many of us sent Mr. Custodio a similar email.

  24. #24
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armiger View Post
    Your guess is correct. I received this as part of an email from them on October 18, 2013:

    Resolution Addressing Open Carry of Firearms in Schools

    Current law lists the places where it is prohibited to carry a firearm including day care centers, hospitals and sporting arenas, but does not specifically list public schools. Recently, it has been brought to MASB’s attention that this has become an issue in a few of our schools. People who have a legal right to carry a firearm openly are entering our schools and the schools, upon seeing the weapon, enter into a lockdown. This unnecessarily disrupts the day for the students and a public school has no recourse to ban the weapon on its grounds.

    This week, Rockford Public Schools passed a resolution urging the Michigan Legislature to add schools to the list of places where it is prohibited to openly carry a firearm. MASB supports their efforts and urges any of our members who are facing similar situations to join Rockford in adopting this resolution.
    Now I know why the school boards making the news continually have the law wrong. Thanks.

    Too bad they don't take the time to actually read the law for themselves. By doing so they wouldn't look like imbeciles by asking the legislature to do that which already IS the law. (Not that they don't already look silly by implementing a "code red" when they could just as easily investigate the situation before CHOOSING to do so)
    Last edited by DrTodd; 01-04-2014 at 06:33 PM.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  25. #25
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    Cool

    Um they do realize that the State of Michigan reserves the right to exclusively govern and legislate WRT gun laws and any feel good BS they should pass will be ILLEGAL AND UNENFORCEABLE per MI law...

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