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Thread: Hunting bills

  1. #1
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Hunting bills

    The hunting bills are starting to show up now.
    These two are key.

    SB 9 Hunting coyotes on Sunday.
    Thomas A. Garrett | all patrons ...
    Summary as introduced:
    Hunting coyotes on Sunday. Makes it lawful to hunt or kill coyotes on Sundays.
    Full text:
    12/04/13 Senate: Prefiled and ordered printed; offered 01/08/14 14100706D pdf
    Status:
    12/04/13 Senate: Prefiled and ordered printed; offered 01/08/14 14100706D
    12/04/13 Senate: Referred to Committee on Agriculture, Conservation and Natural Resources


    SB 13 Hunting dogs, etc.; permission from landowner to retrieve from property.
    Thomas A. Garrett | all patrons ...
    Summary as introduced:
    Retrieval of hunting dogs and other animals. Requires a hunter to make a good faith effort to obtain permission from the landowner, his agent, or a person occupying a residence located on the property before entering the property to retrieve his hunting dogs, falcons, hawks, or owls from the property.
    Full text:
    12/04/13 Senate: Prefiled and ordered printed; offered 01/08/14 14100446D pdf
    Status:
    12/04/13 Senate: Prefiled and ordered printed; offered 01/08/14 14100446D
    12/04/13 Senate: Referred to Committee for Courts of Justice

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Good bills!

    Our support of pro-hunting bills is key to bringing hunters into the fold. Those that hunt have considerable familiarity with their arms and the capacity to reach for them when the need arises for self-defense - their guns become dual purpose tools.

    Indeed, many of us here who tend to think of ourselves as primarily proponents of self-defense, also engage in hunting, sport shooting, and cross train. We are natural bridges to a very large segment of the gun culture in Virginia - adding this bloc of voters to VCDL could easily double, triple, or more the membership roster. In order to do that, we need to show them a return on their commitment - satisfy the 'what's in it for me' question. The very best means to accomplish that is to get solidly behind bills that have a potential return for hunters.....and succeed in getting them passed.

    As a footnote, point of discussion, hunters contribute a ton of money to the economy - this must repeatedly be bought up in our discussions with the members of the GA. If properly mobilized, hunters could swing a big hammer. An organization backing such bills as presented will only add to their effective, positive image.

    There are those that eschew permits for personal carry, the same w/o a second thought will pay their money for a hunting license (permit.) Think that it would be a very interesting concept if no license where required for taking certain nuisance species: groundhogs, crows, and a few others. We could accomplish a double whammy by eliminating the requirement to have a CHP to carry in state forests during hunting season.

    I like these bills that Peter has drawn to our attention. I will promote them and speak up for them at every turn. The first (coyotes) takes a slice out of no Sunday hunting - it opens the door. The second is not a penalty to dog hunters, but makes formal what should have been automatic = common courtesy and honoring private property.

    *******************************

    Did you hear about the new adventure movie coming out?

    It's tentatively titled as the Hunt For Red October Virginia.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 01-28-2014 at 11:19 PM. Reason: Verbiage
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Analysis, please. Saying they are key, Great B'wana, does not make them so.

    I do not engage in the curel mistreatment of animals by placing them under mental stress and anguish and then inflicting pain and mortal wounds. I get my meat and fowl and fish from the grocery store, where they are raised on styrofoam trays with plastic wrapping.

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    [...] their guns become duel purpose tools. [ ... ]
    Ya jus' kain't trust'em spiel chicks!
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  5. #5
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Grapeshot

    [...] their guns become duel purpose tools. [ ... ]
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Ya jus' kain't trust'em spiel chicks!
    Not all unintended consequences are negative or w/o validity.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Analysis, please. Saying they are key, Great B'wana, does not make them so.

    I do not engage in the curel mistreatment of animals by placing them under mental stress and anguish and then inflicting pain and mortal wounds. I get my meat and fowl and fish from the grocery store, where they are raised on styrofoam trays with plastic wrapping.

    stay safe.
    Neither does PETA like to render their own meat, but it's alright if someone else does it........out of their sight.

    I look at it as sanctifying/immortalizing life. I harvest it from the woods or delicatessen, slice n' dice it, subject it to purifying flame, consume all of the tender parts, and walla! it's reborn from within. It is the WAY. Then I nap.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Not all unintended consequences are negative or w/o validity.
    ...but w/o legality. Predicates positive and valid are not in our book, are they, only a particular subject?
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  8. #8
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    One area that unfortunately will be an issue for VCDL. I'm not going to get into the opposition publicly just now. I'm trying to be nice

    Currently The Sierra Club has a law suit prepared and ready to hit Virginia with to force Sunday Hunting. It appears to be waiting to see what the GA does this year. So this is a big issue.

    Trespassing by hunters claiming to Just get their Douwgs....is a major problem and the ask first bill is a baby step to a real solution.

    Without the permission bill, this is what you get...and no, they aren't getting the dogs, they're turning them loose and using the retrieval law as an excuse.



    Last edited by peter nap; 12-22-2013 at 11:02 AM.

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    Question

    Whaddya mean? You use guns for hunting? I thought guns were only for 2A and RKBA's issues?
    Naaaaa gun rights groups would be idiotic for also supporting hunting issues cause the guns you use to hunt ARENT the same as the guns you use to protect yourself...
    Just stay in your corner and let the leadership decide whats best for the cause...
    Besides... gun rights groups already have the hunters support, so gun rights groups dont need to reciprocate and show support back...
    Last edited by AJG; 12-24-2013 at 11:18 AM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member scouser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    ..snip..

    Without the permission bill, this is what you get...and no, they aren't getting the dogs, they're turning them loose and using the retrieval law as an excuse.


    someone told me that when retrieving your dogs from private property you are to do so "on foot only" and "unarmed", is that correct or not?

  11. #11
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scouser View Post
    someone told me that when retrieving your dogs from private property you are to do so "on foot only" and "unarmed", is that correct or not?
    That is correct and as a matter of fact, that gentleman and his friend will be explaining to the judge exactly why NO TRESPASSING doesn't apply to them, on January, 21st.
    Last edited by peter nap; 12-24-2013 at 02:53 PM.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    That is correct and as a matter of fact, that gentleman and his friend will be explaining to the judge exactly why NO TRESPASSING doesn't apply to them, on January, 21st.
    Ooh, ooh, ooh ... Where's this going to be? I'd consider driving south of the Ni to watch THIS court case unfold...
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Ooh, ooh, ooh ... Where's this going to be? I'd consider driving south of the Ni to watch THIS court case unfold...
    Virginia Beach

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Virginia Beach
    Hmmmm... 3 hours each way, more if there's traffic (and there's always traffic) ... but it might be fun...
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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Virginia Beach
    Hey Peter if I haven't found a job by then may come see the fun.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Looks like SB13 has been assigned to Courts Of Justice. That's a good sign.

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    Regular Member FBrinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Looks like SB13 has been assigned to Courts Of Justice. That's a good sign.
    Am I reading this correctly? This amends 18.2-136 only in that it would require hunters of other game (non fox or raccoon hunting) to make an effort to obtain permission to go upon prohibited land to retrieve their dogs AND it amends 18.2-136 to no longer require the hunter to identify themselves to the property owner? But fox hunters can still pretty much hunt without boundaries?


    SENATE BILL NO. 13
    Offered January 8, 2014
    Prefiled December 4, 2013
    A BILL to amend and reenact 18.2-136 of the Code of Virginia, relating to permission to retrieve dogs and other animals from private lands.
    ----------
    Patron-- Garrett
    ----------
    Referred to Committee for Courts of Justice
    ----------
    Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Virginia:

    1. That 18.2-136 of the Code of Virginia is amended and reenacted as follows:

    18.2-136. Right of certain hunters to go on lands of another; carrying firearms or bows and arrows prohibited.

    Fox hunters and coon hunters, when the chase begins on other lands, may follow their dogs on prohibited lands, and hunters of all other game, when the chase begins on other lands, may go upon prohibited lands to retrieve their dogs, falcons, hawks, or owls but may not. However, no hunter shall retrieve his dogs, falcons, hawks, or owls without first making a good faith effort to obtain permission from the landowner or a person occupying a residence on the property. No such hunter shall carry firearms or bows and arrows on their persons person or hunt any game while thereon. The use of vehicles to retrieve dogs, falcons, hawks, or owls on prohibited lands shall be allowed only with the permission of the landowner or his agent. Any person who goes on prohibited lands to retrieve his dogs, falcons, hawks, or owls pursuant to this section and who willfully refuses to identify himself when requested by the landowner or his agent to do so violates any provision of this section is guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBrinson View Post
    Am I reading this correctly? This amends 18.2-136 only in that it would require hunters of other game (non fox or raccoon hunting) to make an effort to obtain permission to go upon prohibited land to retrieve their dogs AND it amends 18.2-136 to no longer require the hunter to identify themselves to the property owner? But fox hunters can still pretty much hunt without boundaries?


    SENATE BILL NO. 13
    Offered January 8, 2014
    Prefiled December 4, 2013
    A BILL to amend and reenact 18.2-136 of the Code of Virginia, relating to permission to retrieve dogs and other animals from private lands.
    ----------
    Patron-- Garrett
    ----------
    Referred to Committee for Courts of Justice
    ----------
    Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Virginia:

    1. That 18.2-136 of the Code of Virginia is amended and reenacted as follows:

    18.2-136. Right of certain hunters to go on lands of another; carrying firearms or bows and arrows prohibited.

    Fox hunters and coon hunters, when the chase begins on other lands, may follow their dogs on prohibited lands, and hunters of all other game, when the chase begins on other lands, may go upon prohibited lands to retrieve their dogs, falcons, hawks, or owls but may not. However, no hunter shall retrieve his dogs, falcons, hawks, or owls without first making a good faith effort to obtain permission from the landowner or a person occupying a residence on the property. No such hunter shall carry firearms or bows and arrows on their persons person or hunt any game while thereon. The use of vehicles to retrieve dogs, falcons, hawks, or owls on prohibited lands shall be allowed only with the permission of the landowner or his agent. Any person who goes on prohibited lands to retrieve his dogs, falcons, hawks, or owls pursuant to this section and who willfully refuses to identify himself when requested by the landowner or his agent to do so violates any provision of this section is guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.
    No, it applies to all dog hunters but it is stealth language,,,as usual (See blue wording) The courts have upheld that across the board.

    It does seem to eliminate the requirement to identify themselves which the dog hunters hate,,,,but that's just a class 4 violation anyway. Hopefully that can be reworded and make it a class 1.

    It did leave the part about follow their dogs which has rarely been enforced by anyone but me..It DOES NOT allow them to look for their dogs.

    My pat response when they say they're just "Looking for their DOUWGS: Is if you know where it is, get it and get out...If you don't know where it is, just get out.

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    Regular Member FBrinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    No, it applies to all dog hunters but it is stealth language,,,as usual (See blue wording) The courts have upheld that across the board.

    It does seem to eliminate the requirement to identify themselves which the dog hunters hate,,,,but that's just a class 4 violation anyway. Hopefully that can be reworded and make it a class 1.

    It did leave the part about follow their dogs which has rarely been enforced by anyone but me..It DOES NOT allow them to look for their dogs.

    My pat response when they say they're just "Looking for their DOUWGS: Is if you know where it is, get it and get out...If you don't know where it is, just get out.
    I understand what you are saying. I am having problems with dog hunters coming on to my property in Surry Co. The last couple of times I have been down there they have (intentionally I believe) run their dogs through my property. I have on two occasions now seen a hunter exit my property while carrying a shotgun. I have not been able to confront the guys yet since they were about 250 yds away across a field.

    Would posting the property change anything in relation to this law?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FBrinson View Post
    I understand what you are saying. I am having problems with dog hunters coming on to my property in Surry Co. The last couple of times I have been down there they have (intentionally I believe) run their dogs through my property. I have on two occasions now seen a hunter exit my property while carrying a shotgun. I have not been able to confront the guys yet since they were about 250 yds away across a field.

    Would posting the property change anything in relation to this law?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    You sure that wasn't bigfoot
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  21. #21
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FBrinson View Post
    I understand what you are saying. I am having problems with dog hunters coming on to my property in Surry Co. The last couple of times I have been down there they have (intentionally I believe) run their dogs through my property. I have on two occasions now seen a hunter exit my property while carrying a shotgun. I have not been able to confront the guys yet since they were about 250 yds away across a field.

    Would posting the property change anything in relation to this law?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yep, needs to be posted to get serious charges. A bucket of silver paint and a roller is all you need to post it.
    A stripe on a tree is a legal posted sign.

    That looked like a Deer to me...shoulda shot it.
    Last edited by peter nap; 12-27-2013 at 06:57 PM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    That looked like a Deer to me...shoulda shot it.
    Everything is gonna be alright Peter - another cup of coffee will fix that
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Yep, needs to be posted to get serious charges. A bucket of silver paint and a roller is all you need to post it.
    A stripe on a tree is a legal posted sign.

    That looked like a Deer to me...shoulda shot it.
    Shooting a trespasser seems to me a foolish reason to go to prison and becoming bubba's girl friend.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Shooting a trespasser seems to me a foolish reason to go to prison and becoming bubba's girl friend.
    I thought I made it clear enough a while back that you could keep your opinion in Wisconsin even though I expect you have valuable first hand knowledge about intimate relations with Bubba.

    What I said was a joke between two Virginians who know each other. I understand humor and for that matter any hint of a personality are alien concepts out there...which is probably why you keep sticking your nose in the Va. forum...but in this thread it's Cheesehead's to the back of the bus.
    Last edited by peter nap; 12-28-2013 at 12:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    .

    What I said was a joke between two Virginians who know each other. .
    Maybe so but simple statements can very easily come back and haunt the one who made them.
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