Lawsuit: detained for openly carrying pistol

nevermind

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2013/12/post_471.html#incart_2box

The 911 call. The dispatcher went from great to crappy in no time. Why the heck did she dispatch units to investigate someone who in her own words was doing nothing wrong, sheesh!

Dispatcher momentum. Even then, the officer's actions were not justified.

Raggs said:

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2013/12/post_471.html#incart_2box

The 911 call. The dispatcher went from great to crappy in no time. Why the heck did she dispatch units to investigate someone who in her own words was doing nothing wrong, sheesh!

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She "kind of" knows the law - the "suspect" was guilty of OWWC! Ocing While Wearing Cammo! A MAJOR fashion crime, thus she felt compelled to roll multiple cars to his location.

Folks - we must read between the lines. The Mayor of GR has been very clear - he wants open carriers gone from his city! Police chief's serve at their mayors pleasure. I would not at all be surprised to learn that the word has come down to the patrol officers to "discourage" open carriers at every opportunity. I hope to be proven wrong, but history has shown the police more than willing to enforce the will of city leaders vs the law more often than not.

FreeInAZ said:

She "kind of" knows the law - the "suspect" was guilty of OWWC! Ocing While Wearing Cammo! A MAJOR fashion crime, thus she felt compelled to roll multiple cars to his location.

Folks - we must read between the lines. The Mayor of GR has been very clear - he wants open carriers gone from his city! Police chief's serve at their mayors pleasure. I would not at all be surprised to learn that the word has come down to the patrol officers to "discourage" open carriers at every opportunity. I hope to be proven wrong, but history has shown the police more than willing to enforce the will of city leaders vs the law more often than not.

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So, MORE 1983 suits need to name the officers, dispatchers, supervisors, chief, AND MAYOR or city administrators. It is a shame many of these seem to be protected from PERSONALLY paying their OWN funds upon losing these suits.

JoeSparky said:

So, MORE 1983 suits need to name the officers, dispatchers, supervisors, chief, AND MAYOR or city administrators. It is a shame many of these seem to be protected from PERSONALLY paying their OWN funds upon losing these suits.

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I hear that may be the case with a tort suit, but not a civil rights suit like this. IANAL, so that is only what I have heard.

JoeSparky said:

So, MORE 1983 suits need to name the officers, dispatchers, supervisors, chief, AND MAYOR or city administrators. It is a shame many of these seem to be protected from PERSONALLY paying their OWN funds upon losing these suits.

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Thats where educating the Public, via news papers, online, council meetings etc, that their Taxes are going to pay for these criminal activities! Educating "The People/Fellow Citizens" Is Extremely Important!!CARRY ON!

FreeInAZ said:

She "kind of" knows the law - the "suspect" was guilty of OWWC! Ocing While Wearing Cammo! A MAJOR fashion crime, thus she felt compelled to roll multiple cars to his location.

Folks - we must read between the lines. The Mayor of GR has been very clear - he wants open carriers gone from his city! Police chief's serve at their mayors pleasure. I would not at all be surprised to learn that the word has come down to the patrol officers to "discourage" open carriers at every opportunity. I hope to be proven wrong, but history has shown the police more than willing to enforce the will of city leaders vs the law more often than not.

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:O i OWWC all the time!!! it gets alot of stares and i was asked to leave a best buy once. but for the most part there arent issues with it

i am curious to see how this ends up

FreeInAZ said:

I would not at all be surprised to learn that the word has come down to the patrol officers to "discourage" open carriers at every opportunity.

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Historical lesson learned for city leaders to heed: the paradox of discouraging OC increases it as we descend upon what you think of as your fiefdom.

DanM said:

Historical lesson learned for city leaders to heed: the paradox of discouraging OC increases it as we descend upon what you think of as your fiefdom.

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Dan - I believe those in Birmingham, MI government would grudgingly have to agree. +1 to you and many other fine defenders of freedom in MI.

the video

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2014/01/dashcam_video_grand_rapids_pol.html

Raggs said:

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2014/01/dashcam_video_grand_rapids_pol.html

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That video is sickening! Officer Moe is nothing more than a law breaking thug IMHO, from what the video shows.

Fired. Fired. Fired. Thats the only acceptable outcome here, the removal of these officers from the department.

At 1:12 in the vid:

Deffert: May I ask why I'm being stopped?

Moe: Because you have a handgun walking down the street.

That right there is plain as day proof that Moe violated the Fourth Amendment with the initial stop and seizure of the weapon. The fact that even AFTER the other officer and supervisor arrived they then CONTINUED to violate his rights means that all three of them need to be canned. "Ignorance of the law is no defense." Isnt that what they tell people who get speeding tickets, parking tickets and such? This is obviously more serious that those things, so those agents of the law that refuse to abide by what they swore to uphold need to be removed, and now. If all they get is a slap on the wrist, then this will happen more, and keep happening until we speak up and do something about it. Vocal minority be damned. There are more of us. It should be our voices ringing from the rooftops and in the town squares. When the hell are we going to pull our heads out of the sand and show the people that we are NOT the ones that should be feared!

If you liked the edited version, make sure you watch the unedited version. It's even worse for the officer.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2014/01/see_unedited_encounter_between.html

Whomever edited the video did a poor job, and intentionally or not, did the officer a favor. There is a lot of bad stuff from the officer that was cut out. Especially in part 3.

Even after completing their check of Mr. Deffert, they continued to detain him and harass him. Officer Moe even threatened to contact the gun board and report Deffert (for following the law).

DeSchaine said:

. . . When the hell are we going to pull our heads out of the sand and show the people that we are NOT the ones that should be feared!

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I like your post, and on this part at the end are you aware of the activities of Michigan OC'ers here? OC'ing everywhere, showing up at local and state government locations to defend OC and RKBA, supporting successful pro-RKBA litigation, etc.

I would say everyone here has their head out of the sand, and nearly all OC and do other things to effect the public losing their fear. So, I'm not sure whom you're addressing?

Raggs said:

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2014/01/dashcam_video_grand_rapids_pol.html

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Officer Moe has much better hearing than I, seeing as he could hear Mr. Deffert "talking to himself" from across the street with cars going by.
He must also be one of the most incompetent officers in the state, seeing as he can't seem to work a retention holster and didn't care about sweeping a passing SUV with his drawn firearm.

Everyone should feel safer knowing this highly-trained officer is relentless (reckless) in his pursuit of the law-abiding.

DanM said:

I like your post, and on this part at the end are you aware of the activities of Michigan OC'ers here? OC'ing everywhere, showing up at local and state government locations to defend OC and RKBA, supporting successful pro-RKBA litigation, etc.

I would say everyone here has their head out of the sand, and nearly all OC and do other things to effect the public losing their fear. So, I'm not sure whom you're addressing?

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Anyone who lawfully owns a firearm. Theres a lot more of us out there than just those on this forum. Yeah, ok, so a person is a member of a group like the NRA or MIOC or such. Big whoop. What do they really do? Send a little money and get all the neat free stuff and a magazine? Pfft. Think about how many people own firearms as opposed to those that carry and show up at the rallies, meetings, etc. The ultra whiny vocal minority has apparently castrated quite a few of our fellow gun owners and made them afraid to exercise their rights. Why? Because of things like this. A person carrying get grabbed up and intimidated by the local versions of One Bullet Barney. So we need it to happen more. We need more people out there with side arms on their hips and AR-15's on their backs. Let the cops keep violating our rights and we'll sue them into oblivion. Make the system work for us for a change.

DeSchaine said:

Anyone who lawfully owns a firearm. Theres a lot more of us out there than just those on this forum. Yeah, ok, so a person is a member of a group like the NRA or MIOC or such. Big whoop. What do they really do? Send a little money and get all the neat free stuff and a magazine? Pfft.

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Ok, you were just ranting at the choir here about all the deadbeat or barely-involved gun owners out there.
I agree!

SD40VE said:

i am curious to see how this ends up

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Deffert v Moe Case No. 1:13-cv-01351
Filed 20 December 13, defendants have requested until 18 February 14 to answer the complaint.

A free copy of the original complaint is escaping my search.