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Thread: OC in courthouses

  1. #1
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    OC in courthouses

    I know we can not open carry in courtrooms. My question is concerning the new Pikeville Judicial Center. All the court rooms are on the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th floors. The 1st floor has the drivers license, county clerks office, ect. Upon entering the entrance threw the front doors, you must pass threw a medal detector. Would it be legal to carry in if you are just going to the first floor to license your car or something? I have looked threw different KRS's and cant find any answer as to what is legal or not legal. Any help would be greatly apprecated. A KRS number would be outstanding that covers this.

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyDevilDog View Post
    I know we can not open carry in courtrooms. My question is concerning the new Pikeville Judicial Center. All the court rooms are on the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th floors. The 1st floor has the drivers license, county clerks office, ect. Upon entering the entrance threw the front doors, you must pass threw a medal detector. Would it be legal to carry in if you are just going to the first floor to license your car or something? I have looked threw different KRS's and cant find any answer as to what is legal or not legal. Any help would be greatly apprecated. A KRS number would be outstanding that covers this.
    why would anyone want to put up a medal detector? for that matter, why would anyone try to conceal a medal? Heck, they should be openly carrying their medals!

    I dunno about OC in a building that serves as the City/County offices, AND the CoJ and it's offices. Remember, Drivers Licensing is controlled by the Court of Justice [CoJ], as is the Circuit Clerk's office, so those are a BIG NO-NO for Oc/CC. I wish CGM would come back to the forums, he had a whole head-ache fiasco with Morehead's City government using the same building as the CoJ, so he could tell you more of that.
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    If the entire building is solely occupied by the courts and offices of the courts, then the entire building is off limits. If there are other offices in the buildings, then only the offices of the courts and the courts are off limits.

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    237.110 (16) c. Any courthouse, solely occupied by the Court of Justice courtroom, or
    court proceeding;

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    OK, first off, not a lawyer here and this is based solely upon what others have learned and encountered. I do not have a KRS for this either but as I've been informed, it is law in Kentucky so take it for what it's worth.

    All of these new "Justice Center's" that are going up around Kentucky are completely off-limits, they're supposedly treated the same as Detention Center's, as per the carry of weapon's.

    I am currently away from my office for the holiday's so I can't research any of this.
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    I myself do not see an issue with OC in a courtroom ... why should judge's have preferential treatment?

    I know of may instances where judges asked for special marshal protection and they were denied ...

    Don't worry folks .. plenty of lawyers will be begging to get into a black robe if, in the unlikely event, a judge is shot on the bench.

    Heck, you can just wait for the judge outside, so what's the point?

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    The way I see it, if I have to go thru a metal detector the gun and knife sit in the car. When I first moved here I went to change my DLIC and was told, when I emptied my pockets, that my skoal can had to go to the car. So, I figure if I can't take that in they sure won't let a "weapon" in.
    Last edited by rs3604; 12-28-2013 at 02:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rs3604 View Post
    The way I see it, if I have to go thru a metal detector the gun and knife sit in the car.
    The way I see it, my local school, my local circuit court clerk and all the local court rooms all don't have metal detectors. Your logic may land somebody in jail.

    Also some small courthouses may have a metal detector at the entrance to a common hall that leads to both courtrooms and public offices.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    09jisaac, please don't miss understand. I am not advocating you carry somewhere it is illegal,just saying if there is a detector might as well leave it in the car cause you'll be taking it back there anyway.I know there are places where laws say we can not carry.

    Gutshot, I get your point, but even if you are in the right, the cost could be substantial to prove it. Better to start proper dialogue and do it the right way, as I know you have many times, then walk through the door with the gun to "prove a point" and end up spending the night in jail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rs3604 View Post
    09jisaac, please don't miss understand. I am not advocating you carry somewhere it is illegal,just saying if there is a detector might as well leave it in the car cause you'll be taking it back there anyway.I know there are places where laws say we can not carry.

    Gutshot, I get your point, but even if you are in the right, the cost could be substantial to prove it. Better to start proper dialogue and do it the right way, as I know you have many times, then walk through the door with the gun to "prove a point" and end up spending the night in jail.
    If I can legally carry there, I will carry there if I need to be in there.

    I do not carry to prove a point, I do not carry into places just to carry there. But when I have business somewhere, and I can legally carry there, I will be carrying there.

    The metal detectors can be there to enforce the authority that they do have, to restrict concealed carry in their buildings. The officers, the Attorney, and the people in control of the building could know exactly what is going on. The only way to know is to ask.

    I would walk up to the metal detectors and ask about it.
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    [QUOTE=gutshot;2019911]Dialogue is often the best way to handle these situations, but at other times forcing the issue is the only way to fight tyrants[QUOTE]

    +1. Sometimes talk is cheap.
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    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 09jisaac View Post
    If I can legally carry there, I will carry there if I need to be in there.

    I do not carry to prove a point, I do not carry into places just to carry there. But when I have business somewhere, and I can legally carry there, I will be carrying there.

    The metal detectors can be there to enforce the authority that they do have, to restrict concealed carry in their buildings. The officers, the Attorney, and the people in control of the building could know exactly what is going on. The only way to know is to ask.

    I would walk up to the metal detectors and ask about it.
    I did ask one of the deputies that work the door. His reply was basically, we can do what we want. I did tell him that according to state law, some offices in there we can open carry. He said he knows the law, he works it every day. I asked if he even read the law. He stated he was the law. BTW, he has only had that job for maybe a month total

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    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    Gutshot, I'll see about this. As far as I know though, the judicial center houses just the courts.
    No man alive can beat me in a fair fight: It's not fair to chase a man down and beat him.

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    ky ag office yes to open in court house

    Quote Originally Posted by KyDevilDog View Post
    I know we can not open carry in courtrooms. My question is concerning the new Pikeville Judicial Center. All the court rooms are on the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th floors. The 1st floor has the drivers license, county clerks office, ect. Upon entering the entrance threw the front doors, you must pass threw a medal detector. Would it be legal to carry in if you are just going to the first floor to license your car or something? I have looked threw different KRS's and cant find any answer as to what is legal or not legal. Any help would be greatly apprecated. A KRS number would be outstanding that covers this.
    if you read ky attorney generals response to open carry it clear states you can not carry in a court room or a judges chambers ,it says that oc is allowed as long as not in stated above place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KyDevilDog View Post
    I did ask one of the deputies that work the door. His reply was basically, we can do what we want. I did tell him that according to state law, some offices in there we can open carry. He said he knows the law, he works it every day. I asked if he even read the law. He stated he was the law. BTW, he has only had that job for maybe a month total
    Court security officers receive 80 hours of training, with very little training on Ky law. These CSOs can be employed for up to a year before they even receive that training. I know from experience that seasoned officers that work the street are mostly ignorant of most Ky law except for the most commonly enforced statutes -- court security officers really don't know anything about Ky law unless they research it on their own.

    Most officers that work court security are NOT deputy sheriffs. Court security officers do not have the same powers as a deputy sheriff. These officers are employed by the Sheriff of the county as CSOs because that is what Ky law requires. The only agencies that can provide court security are a county's sheriff's department or the KSP if the sheriff refuses to do so. Deputy sheriffs can work court security detail, but most sheriffs won't waste the time and money to send a deputy through DOCJT training just to put him in a courthouse.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

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    While some of what you say is true, it is also true that many CSO's are retired peace officers with decades of honorable service.

    As to their knowledge of firearms law, that differs from individual to individual.

    Additionally, the Administrative Office of the Courts can, if necessary, contract with agencies other than the SO or KSP to provide court security. While depending on a particular county this can prove difficult, it is not impossible across the state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOverlay View Post
    While some of what you say is true, it is also true that many CSO's are retired peace officers with decades of honorable service.

    As to their knowledge of firearms law, that differs from individual to individual.

    Additionally, the Administrative Office of the Courts can, if necessary, contract with agencies other than the SO or KSP to provide court security. While depending on a particular county this can prove difficult, it is not impossible across the state.
    Can you post relevant statutes that allow that AOC to do so? I've never come across them and would like to study them.

    I don't know what it is like in your county, but here in mine there are not "many" retired peace officers working as CSOs. CSOs are peace officers themselves while transporting or on the grounds of the courthouse. Here in Boyd County we have CSOs that venture well outside of their jurisdiction. I know of one young guy that knows nothing about relevant and important issues involved in "defending the peace" and will wear his CSO badge while MAKING ARRESTS working for a SECURITY company. This is ILLEGAL! Yet when brought to the attention of "the powers that be" it is ignored. It just doesn't matter what a fellow peace officer concerned with abiding by ALL statutes says.

    I'm glad Terry Keelin is leaving. If you don't want more corruption then don't vote for Rob Donta Boyd County residents!
    Last edited by KYGlockster; 01-13-2014 at 02:39 PM.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Krs 70.284

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOverlay View Post
    Krs 70.284
    Don't know how I missed that.

    Are there any facilities that you are aware of that contracts with a local agency?
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    I can't say for sure. I know before I retired, over a year ago, AOC was faced with the possibility due to some SO issues in some counties.

    If they every followed through with that, I can't say.

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    Exclamation

    If I am understanding correctly. As long as I carry my firearm openly. I can do so at my county court house? For example: Visiting the Sheriff's Department, The county clerks office to renew pay for my license plate or taxes on my vehicle, going the county PVA or surveyors office. Any office as long as it isn't the county fiscal court room or judge executive's chambers. Am I correct?


    I'm talking about the county court house... not the justice center......
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    Lord, make me fast and accurate. Let my aim be true and my hand be faster than those who would seek to destroy me. Grant me victory over my foes and those that wish to do harm to me and mine. Let not my last thought be if I only had a gun; and Lord if today is truly the day that you call me home, let me die in a pile of empty brass. ~ The Gunfighter’s Prayer

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    Regular Member mem1977's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Not quite right. The county judge executive is not a court of justice judge. He is a county executive. The Fiscal Court is not a court of justice court. Fiscal court is the legislative body of county government.You can carry in any of these county offices. The only place you can not OC are Court of Justice courts, they are District Court, Circuit Court, Court of Appeals and Ky. Supreme Court. These are the only "courts" that are off limits to OC. That also applies to the court of justice offices and support staffs ( Judges' chambers, jury rooms, circuit clerks office etc.).
    This is exactly what I thought. The old Floyd County Court House recently posted signs on their doors stating "NO WEAPONS ALLOWED". I know why they did it. Because I called got into a heated argument with the fiscal court back in January this year. I went into the fiscal court room with an empty holster on my side. Because at that time I thought you could not carry inside that court. I argued with the court about how they have destroyed the county. How they have stripped the Sheriffs department of nearly all funding while the magistrates, county clerk, and judge exec. are keeping all their funding. We have no 911 dispatch in our county anymore. We have no Sheriffs Department after 4pm. The Sheriff has laid off nearly half of his force off and all of his night dispatch too. I know of magistrates that have abused their power by graveling and paving their family and friends private driveways. You can't get them to do anything they are suppose to do. Since the winter weather I haven't been able to get out since January. I went to renew my fishing license yesterday and I always carry my gun. The first thing I notice is a sign on the front door, "NO WEAPONS ALLOWED". I laughed and walked on in carrying. Not one thing said to me.

    I am working on trying to have a peaceful protest 2 weeks before the May election. Because all members of the fiscal court have competition in this years election; minus the county attorney. A protest to show the county government that the people are fed up with their garbage. Also to show support for the Sheriff's office. I hope to have a lot of people show up. If it is only me... I will proudly stand in front of the old court house and protest myself for those 2 weeks.

    I'll give you my gun when you take it from my cold, dead hands! ~ Charlton Heston (1923 -- 2008)

    Lord, make me fast and accurate. Let my aim be true and my hand be faster than those who would seek to destroy me. Grant me victory over my foes and those that wish to do harm to me and mine. Let not my last thought be if I only had a gun; and Lord if today is truly the day that you call me home, let me die in a pile of empty brass. ~ The Gunfighter’s Prayer

  23. #23
    Regular Member mem1977's Avatar
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    I have tried to talk kindly and have a proper discussion with the Judge Exec. and all other members of the fiscal court. You can't talk to people that think they are above the law. They won't listen. They will look at you and say you need to get your head out of the clouds and pull it out of your butt. That is the kind of fiscal court we have in Floyd County. Even the Sheriff is sick and tired of this bull. Everyone I have talked to in Floyd County, and even those that are running in the election against the members of the current fiscal court. Have told me that when I called them out on these issues and stood my ground against them. Everyone is saying I have the fiscal court scared. No citizen has stood up to them the way I did. People are thanking me for what I said. The Sheriff has thanked me for standing up to them. He said he wished more people would do the same. I have already sent a lot of information in to the state about our county magistrates. The state has threatened the fiscal court long before me to get the county back in shape or the state will take over Floyd County. The fiscal court is scared...
    I'll give you my gun when you take it from my cold, dead hands! ~ Charlton Heston (1923 -- 2008)

    Lord, make me fast and accurate. Let my aim be true and my hand be faster than those who would seek to destroy me. Grant me victory over my foes and those that wish to do harm to me and mine. Let not my last thought be if I only had a gun; and Lord if today is truly the day that you call me home, let me die in a pile of empty brass. ~ The Gunfighter’s Prayer

  24. #24
    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Didn't know Floyd county was the county in which Prestonsburg sat in; You should have no problem/trouble at all getting the EKY OCers like Isaac, and Neuroblades, and Glockster to rally around ya down there, the former two had their last couple OC greets down there.

    If you tried being nice to the arsehats, then you have every right to get riled up and be confrontational towards the actors that perpetrate the illegality, and the weapons bans. Get a party of say, twenty people together, all OC'ing, and have them move in and out of the fiscal court building or whereever that is posted no weapons, but where you/we/anyone can legally carry in. Show them that their plastic/metal signs/stickers are meaningless, and if you have to, use every bit of our pre-emption to demand they get within the law, or go to the local circuit/district judge, and file a motion for the city/county to shape up, and comply, and to cover all legal costs of the motion too. And if that fails, then get people in the county to vote for you, or someone, to tell the state to go in and clear house.

    If the Governors do not have the consent of the governed, then they have no business remaining such.
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  25. #25
    Regular Member 09jisaac's Avatar
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    I will see if I can make it to Floyd county tomorrow and see what is going on.
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