OC in courthouses

If I am understanding correctly. As long as I carry my firearm openly. I can do so at my county court house? For example: Visiting the Sheriff's Department, The county clerks office to renew pay for my license plate or taxes on my vehicle, going the county PVA or surveyors office. Any office as long as it isn't the county fiscal court room or judge executive's chambers. Am I correct?


I'm talking about the county court house... not the justice center...... :question:

gutshot said:

Not quite right. The county judge executive is not a court of justice judge. He is a county executive. The Fiscal Court is not a court of justice court. Fiscal court is the legislative body of county government.You can carry in any of these county offices. The only place you can not OC are Court of Justice courts, they are District Court, Circuit Court, Court of Appeals and Ky. Supreme Court. These are the only "courts" that are off limits to OC. That also applies to the court of justice offices and support staffs ( Judges' chambers, jury rooms, circuit clerks office etc.).

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This is exactly what I thought. The old Floyd County Court House recently posted signs on their doors stating "NO WEAPONS ALLOWED". I know why they did it. Because I called got into a heated argument with the fiscal court back in January this year. I went into the fiscal court room with an empty holster on my side. Because at that time I thought you could not carry inside that court. I argued with the court about how they have destroyed the county. How they have stripped the Sheriffs department of nearly all funding while the magistrates, county clerk, and judge exec. are keeping all their funding. We have no 911 dispatch in our county anymore. We have no Sheriffs Department after 4pm. The Sheriff has laid off nearly half of his force off and all of his night dispatch too. I know of magistrates that have abused their power by graveling and paving their family and friends private driveways. You can't get them to do anything they are suppose to do. Since the winter weather I haven't been able to get out since January. I went to renew my fishing license yesterday and I always carry my gun. The first thing I notice is a sign on the front door, "NO WEAPONS ALLOWED". I laughed and walked on in carrying. Not one thing said to me.

I am working on trying to have a peaceful protest 2 weeks before the May election. Because all members of the fiscal court have competition in this years election; minus the county attorney. A protest to show the county government that the people are fed up with their garbage. Also to show support for the Sheriff's office. I hope to have a lot of people show up. If it is only me... I will proudly stand in front of the old court house and protest myself for those 2 weeks.

:dude:

I have tried to talk kindly and have a proper discussion with the Judge Exec. and all other members of the fiscal court. You can't talk to people that think they are above the law. They won't listen. They will look at you and say you need to get your head out of the clouds and pull it out of your butt. That is the kind of fiscal court we have in Floyd County. Even the Sheriff is sick and tired of this bull. Everyone I have talked to in Floyd County, and even those that are running in the election against the members of the current fiscal court. Have told me that when I called them out on these issues and stood my ground against them. Everyone is saying I have the fiscal court scared. No citizen has stood up to them the way I did. People are thanking me for what I said. The Sheriff has thanked me for standing up to them. He said he wished more people would do the same. I have already sent a lot of information in to the state about our county magistrates. The state has threatened the fiscal court long before me to get the county back in shape or the state will take over Floyd County. The fiscal court is scared...

Didn't know Floyd county was the county in which Prestonsburg sat in; You should have no problem/trouble at all getting the EKY OCers like Isaac, and Neuroblades, and Glockster to rally around ya down there, the former two had their last couple OC greets down there.

If you tried being nice to the arsehats, then you have every right to get riled up and be confrontational towards the actors that perpetrate the illegality, and the weapons bans. Get a party of say, twenty people together, all OC'ing, and have them move in and out of the fiscal court building or whereever that is posted no weapons, but where you/we/anyone can legally carry in. Show them that their plastic/metal signs/stickers are meaningless, and if you have to, use every bit of our pre-emption to demand they get within the law, or go to the local circuit/district judge, and file a motion for the city/county to shape up, and comply, and to cover all legal costs of the motion too. And if that fails, then get people in the county to vote for you, or someone, to tell the state to go in and clear house.

If the Governors do not have the consent of the governed, then they have no business remaining such.

I will see if I can make it to Floyd county tomorrow and see what is going on.

Good luck with that. Its like trying to talk to a bunch of children at the court house. The only one with sense is Sheriff John K. Blackburn. He is getting fed up with the fiscal court and Judge Executive Doc. Marshall.

:banghead:

Didn't get to make it down today. I will try to get down there next week if things aren't fixed by then.

Perhaps address this issue via a open meetings complaint - I did ---

Ref: Open meeting violation by Jury Communications Review Committee
January 29, 2014 meeting violation


Dear Commission,

I went to observe a meeting of the Jury Communications Review Committee (aka JCR), chaired by a Ms. Esther Harris and located/headquartered at 225 Spring Street in Wethersfield, CT 06109.

Attached is the agenda for the meeting that was held on 29 JAN 14.
And the web site for the JCR is http://www.jud.ct.gov/committees/pst/jury/communications/

I was subject to several violations of the open meetings requirements of the Freedom of Information Act (aka Act).

The Act, in section 1-225 in respect to meetings states, in part, and in respect to agendas:

For any such public agency of the state, such agenda shall be posted on the public agency’s and the Secretary of the State’s web sites. Upon the affirmative vote of two-thirds of the members of a public agency present and voting, any subsequent business not included in such filed agendas may be considered and acted upon at such meetings.

As you can see from the agenda attached the JCR has an item seven (7) noted as being “Other Business”. This is not an acceptable item to be placed onto an agenda as it does not inform the public what business may or may not be considered at the meeting. Therefore, the agenda produced is not in compliance with our open meeting requirements and is not an agenda in the strictest sense and my conclusion is that they did not post an agenda at all in accordance with our requirements under section 1-225 of the Act.

Also, under section 1-225 of the Act that states, in part:

(e) No member of the public shall be required, as a condition to attendance at a meeting of any such body, to register the member’s name, or furnish other information, or complete a questionnaire or otherwise fulfill any condition precedent to the member’s attendance.

I traveled a great distance to attend the meeting and arrived at the building about 5 minutes before the commencement of the meeting; however I was not allowed entry into the building that was housing the meeting past the “lobby” of the building.
I had with me a video recorder and voice recorder with me when I entered the “lobby” of the building. I was met by a nice gentleman who was standing by a metal detector. Now metal detectors have been in existence long before the Act was voted on by our legislature and the legislature knew of their existence and purpose before the Act was voted on when it was first passed into law and also upon other votes to update the law since that time period. Since the Act was passed the legislature declined to change 1-225(e) to allow a governmental body to require a person to go through a metal detector or any other security procedure; in fact the legislature still highlights that a person cannot “..fulfill ANY condition precedent to the member’s attendance..”. The legislature is also aware that many meetings are held in government buildings on government land as opposed to outdoors. The JRC could hold its meetings in a public library, outside, anywhere really but choose to have it in a building that has certain security measures.

The Act also prohibits that a person cannot be subjected to a “questionnaire” to be completed as a condition of entry to a meeting. However, I was presented with both a written and oral questionnaire to be completed upon gaining the extremely limited access to the building’s lobby.

Some of the interrogatories included, but were not exclusive to, questions like:
Where are you going?
What are you here for?
What is your name?
Can you show me ID?
Can you pass through this metal detector?
Can you leave your video recorder and voice recorder outside of the building?
Can you put your property in this container?
Can you fill out this form that contains numerous inquiries?

I interrupted the gentleman from continuing asking questions and asked if I needed to comply with every request that he presented prior to gaining access. He stated yes.

When accessing or traveling to access an open meeting I don’t feel that I should treated as a prisoner; I am a freeman, an American. I cannot allow such treatment to pass by without complaint and to petition the government for redress.


Therefore, I am filing this complaint regarding numerous violations of CGS Chapter 14 and request for any and all relief available under the Act.

A complaint I filed when I saw that a courthouse was having a meeting, as is defined by our open meetings provisions of the FOIA Act .. I had a previous issue with security at another courthouse earlier.
I was denied entry into the bldg when I refused to comply with the various "security measures". Shortly after I filed the complaint, I got this back from the Chief Judge that decides security matters for all courthouses in the state, body of email rec. in March, below:

I wanted to let you know that we have discussed the issue that you brought to our attention, namely, that the judicial marshals in New Britain did not allow you to bring your camera into the courthouse. As we discussed, the Use and Possession of Electronic Devices in Superior Court Facilities allows persons to have a number of electronic devices, including devices that can broadcast, record or take photographs. A directive will be going out to the marshals instructing them to allow persons to bring electronic devices that are listed in the policy into all state courthouses.

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention and for your patience in getting it resolved.


Regards,


Melissa A. Farley, Esq.

Executive Director

External Affairs Division

State of Connecticut Judicial Branch

231 Capitol Avenue

Hartford, CT 06105


I'm sure my complaint regarding open meetings prompted the response obtained this month..as my initial contact was back in NOV 13.

I have a slam dunk winner case ... they know it and now will say "ahhhh, just drop the case -- see, we changed how our policy is implemented"

Now there is no common law right to attend meetings and most meetings of the judiciary branches are exempt anyway; but not all.

So when attacking these hurdles to access to buildings ~ one avenue to examine is your open meeting provisions. They may afford you broad authority in being protected from harassment.

I fought the law and the law did not win .... I was always kind and polite ... no need for hysterics ... one must realize that one may be on the wrong end of the law too....if so, I try to change the law...

I went to the old Floyd County Court House today. They still have their signs on the front doors that reads... "NO WEAPONS ALLOWED IN THIS BUILDING" This building only houses the county fiscal court, PVA, Sheriff's office, county clerk, and Assistant County Attorney's office. They still refuse to remove their sign. I went into the building today to use the bathroom and after stepping out of the bathroom stall. I was met inside the bathroom by two deputy sheriff's. I didn't even get to wash my hands after taking a piss. I was told if I came back inside the building that I would be arrested. They know their sign isn't legal and yet they continue to enforce their local laws and violate state law. I tried talking to the deputies and informing them that the sign wasn't legal. They told me that they had to enforce what the judges had in place in the county justice center. A totally different building from the fiscal court house. I asked them since when did judges write their own laws that violate state laws. They told me again if I came back into the building that I would be arrested. I have been in this building numerous times before. This was the first time I was ever talked down to like a dog.

Can anyone help me on this situation? You can't reason with the county fiscal court or the county judge executive. Please someone help...

09jisaac said:

Gutshot, I'll see about this. As far as I know though, the judicial center houses just the courts.

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I would just highlight that I went to a courthouse recently and was demanded to a) sign in, providing a significant amt of information (ie written interrogatories) b) go through a metal detector c) answer a set of verbal interrogatories. I refused all of the requests and was denied access.

However, I was there to attend a public meeting, one of many held in courthouses. And our FOIA Act, CGS Sec. 1-225 states, in part:

(e) No member of the public shall be required, as a condition to attendance at a meeting of any such body, to register the member’s name, or furnish other information, or complete a questionnaire or otherwise fulfill any condition precedent to the member’s attendance.


And I have been investigating the need to show ID, go through metal detectors, etc for gaining access to public buildings. Appears as if the 4th amend is no barrier to most of these activities by the gov't but some courts have been starting to discuss 5th amendment issues. I don't think that the 5th amendment hurdles have been fully adjudicated yet.

I have written to my state agency that handles state, non-judicial, bldgs and expect a reply to my 5th amendment argument and other arguments.

As for the meeting within a court building, I have a civil complaint filed and am awaiting a hearing.

When does the fiscal court meet? Perhaps you or a few of us could attend the meeting, unarmed, and address the situation. I think it would do a lot of good to record their response and get it in their meeting minutes. Do you know what ordinances are on the book there?

I finally after constantly calling. I managed to get in touch with the attorney general's office. I also got in touch with my good friend and state representative Greg Stumbo. I told them what was going in Floyd County and they both said that they would be taking care of the matter. That the signs were not legal and they would get on this matter right away. I had the Floyd County Judge Executive come up to me and talk to me personally. He said that those signs were not his doing. He said it was the Sheriff's Office that put those signs on the doors of the old court house. He did apologize for how I was treated. He said that we couldn't clean up the county until the Sheriff's Office was cleaned out first. He told me that is why he decided to not run for judge exec. anymore. Everything he wanted to do for the betterment of the county. That the magistrates and the Sheriff would knock him out of it. I told Greg Stumbo that the building should be renamed. There is a statue of former Kentucky Governor Bert T. Combs in front of the old court house. I told Greg that the building should be renamed in his honor. He said he liked the idea and would see about possibly changing the name. I think things will finally go right and the corrupt Sheriffs Office will be mad as hell when they are told to take the signs down. Today is a good day. I will let you all know of further details.

Gutshot, I did do just as you stated above. These county officials are down right dumb as hell and corrupt as hell. They think they are above state law. You can't talk to them. I have tried to talk to the county attorney, the magistrates, and the sheriff. I was amazed that the county judge exec. came up to me and agreed with me outside the old court house.

Langzaiguy, I have been to the fiscal court. When you talk to them. They just sit and nod their heads and don't say a word. The only words that come out of their mouths are as follows... "You need to pull your head out of the clouds and out of your ass and get your facts straight." You cannot reason with them.