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Thread: Long Gun Open Carry Laws or Precedents

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    Long Gun Open Carry Laws or Precedents

    Can you point me in the direction of any laws or court cases related to the open carrying of long guns in NC? I recently purchased a motorcycle and would like to carry my rifle with me on longer in-state trips just the same as I do in my 4-wheeled vehicles, but don't want to be unsure of myself should any confrontation result from the unusual sight of a mid-20's fit white military-style dude on a sporty red naked bike with a rifle case attached to it.

    I know the rifle would be cased most of the time but, should I need to leave the bike in case of an accident or technical problem, I can imagine a few scenarios where I would want to take the gun with me. The case would be attached to the bike, probably mounted on one of the passenger peg supports or something, so if I did have to leave the bike for whatever reason, I'd probably just end up slinging the rifle on my back. Same concerns as with on the bike- I don't want to be unsure of myself should any confrontation with law enforcement pop up. Obviously if this is illegal I won't be doing it at all, but if it is legal I need to know that and not let myself be bullied by whatever local cops.

    I'm not trying to start a conversation or debate about carrying long guns, but I know some of you are very savvy with the applicable laws and related court cases and hope somebody can post up a few links to some pertinent information. Thanks in advance!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Plenty of sharp people in NC, so expect to see a response shortly from those more knowledgeable than I.

    Just to preempt any concerns about "long gun" carry, no succinct exchange regarding how to stay within the law will be considered off-topic or a rule violation as it pertains to the question posed. Please don't diverge from these limits.
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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDFbound View Post
    Can you point me in the direction of any laws or court cases related to the open carrying of long guns in NC? I recently purchased a motorcycle and would like to carry my rifle with me on longer in-state trips just the same as I do in my 4-wheeled vehicles, but don't want to be unsure of myself should any confrontation result from the unusual sight of a mid-20's fit white military-style dude on a sporty red naked bike with a rifle case attached to it.

    I know the rifle would be cased most of the time but, should I need to leave the bike in case of an accident or technical problem, I can imagine a few scenarios where I would want to take the gun with me. The case would be attached to the bike, probably mounted on one of the passenger peg supports or something, so if I did have to leave the bike for whatever reason, I'd probably just end up slinging the rifle on my back. Same concerns as with on the bike- I don't want to be unsure of myself should any confrontation with law enforcement pop up. Obviously if this is illegal I won't be doing it at all, but if it is legal I need to know that and not let myself be bullied by whatever local cops.

    I'm not trying to start a conversation or debate about carrying long guns, but I know some of you are very savvy with the applicable laws and related court cases and hope somebody can post up a few links to some pertinent information. Thanks in advance!
    I suppose I would start here:

    "SUBCHAPTER IX. OFFENSES AGAINST THE PUBLIC PEACE."
    http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislat...rticle_35.html

    "Firearm Regulation."
    http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislat...ticle_53B.html

    Not so sure about LG OC cases, but I would presume that they would follow handgun OC.

    One thought (and keep in mind, IANAL), is that the cased long gun MIGHT be considered concealed if it is no obviously a long gun. Just my $0.02, and not sure it is even worth that much.
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Regular Member Jamesm760's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolina guy View Post
    One thought (and keep in mind, IANAL), is that the cased long gun MIGHT be considered concealed if it is no obviously a long gun. Just my $0.02, and not sure it is even worth that much.
    I will agree with Carolina Guy. I too believe a cased gun while on a motorcycle would be considered concealed. I2ANAL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesm760 View Post
    I will agree with Carolina Guy. I too believe a cased gun while on a motorcycle would be considered concealed. I2ANAL.
    I have to believe that in the situations I described, the gun would be treated as in any other situation in which a gun is transported in a protective case. As long as it is cased, it is simply being safely transported in/on my main vehicle for transportation. I think a law enforcement officer would have a hard time getting anything to stick to me as long as I didn't have it on any grounds where it is strictly forbidden. People legally transport cased firearms in their vehicles at all times. The fact that it is on a motorcycle should make it obvious that it is not on or about my person, as I would have to stop and park the bike, dismount, and unlock the case before gaining access to the rifle. Ease of access is easier when carried in a 4-wheeled vehicle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TDFbound View Post
    I have to believe that in the situations I described, the gun would be treated as in any other situation in which a gun is transported in a protective case. As long as it is cased, it is simply being safely transported in/on my main vehicle for transportation. I think a law enforcement officer would have a hard time getting anything to stick to me as long as I didn't have it on any grounds where it is strictly forbidden. People legally transport cased firearms in their vehicles at all times. The fact that it is on a motorcycle should make it obvious that it is not on or about my person, as I would have to stop and park the bike, dismount, and unlock the case before gaining access to the rifle. Ease of access is easier when carried in a 4-wheeled vehicle.
    Likewise.

    I have OCd, carried in a hard case, and in a saddle holster; I've gotten a couple looks from LEO, but no stops or anything said. OC has been via a sling over my shoulder, strapped on across the rear seat, and in the saddle rig. Transport has been in a hard case strapped across the rear seat.

    I have never found anything specifically directed to long guns as far as OC goes (other than it being recognized as normal for long guns to be in a rear window rack in pickups), or for long guns on motorcycles.

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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDFbound View Post
    I have to believe that in the situations I described, the gun would be treated as in any other situation in which a gun is transported in a protective case. As long as it is cased, it is simply being safely transported in/on my main vehicle for transportation. I think a law enforcement officer would have a hard time getting anything to stick to me as long as I didn't have it on any grounds where it is strictly forbidden. People legally transport cased firearms in their vehicles at all times. The fact that it is on a motorcycle should make it obvious that it is not on or about my person, as I would have to stop and park the bike, dismount, and unlock the case before gaining access to the rifle. Ease of access is easier when carried in a 4-wheeled vehicle.
    I agree with you, they should be taken for exactly what it is...a properly stored long gun. In fact, if it is locked, US v Black would likely protect you unless you voluntarily open the case for a LEO who does not have RAS to search.

    http://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinions...d/115084.p.pdf

    Again, just my $0.02 (non-inflation adjusted opinion)
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDFbound View Post
    I have to believe that in the situations I described, the gun would be treated as in any other situation in which a gun is transported in a protective case. As long as it is cased, it is simply being safely transported in/on my main vehicle for transportation. I think a law enforcement officer would have a hard time getting anything to stick to me as long as I didn't have it on any grounds where it is strictly forbidden. People legally transport cased firearms in their vehicles at all times. The fact that it is on a motorcycle should make it obvious that it is not on or about my person, as I would have to stop and park the bike, dismount, and unlock the case before gaining access to the rifle. Ease of access is easier when carried in a 4-wheeled vehicle.
    Unless the case is locked it is concealed. NC considers a firearm that is readily accessible not openly carried concealed. You should read Kerner V NC, our right to OC a military style handgun is protected. I do not believe the justices made reference to long guns. Nothing against long guns, just it doesn't make much sense when we can OC a handgun. In a state like Texas I can understand it more.

    That aside years back it was not unusual for me to go hunting and carry a LG on the road to and from the field. I have never done that in a city though. There was a case in Charlotte of a LG arrest that was discussed here a couple years back, you may want to do a search and see if you can find it. Unless somebody remembers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Unless the case is locked it is concealed. NC considers a firearm that is readily accessible not openly carried concealed. You should read Kerner V NC, our right to OC a military style handgun is protected. I do not believe the justices made reference to long guns. Nothing against long guns, just it doesn't make much sense when we can OC a handgun. In a state like Texas I can understand it more.

    That aside years back it was not unusual for me to go hunting and carry a LG on the road to and from the field. I have never done that in a city though. There was a case in Charlotte of a LG arrest that was discussed here a couple years back, you may want to do a search and see if you can find it. Unless somebody remembers.
    Thanks for the reference to a possible older thread- I'll do some digging and see what pops up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Unless the case is locked it is concealed. NC considers a firearm that is readily accessible not openly carried concealed. You should read Kerner V NC, our right to OC a military style handgun is protected. I do not believe the justices made reference to long guns. Nothing against long guns, just it doesn't make much sense when we can OC a handgun. In a state like Texas I can understand it more.

    That aside years back it was not unusual for me to go hunting and carry a LG on the road to and from the field. I have never done that in a city though. There was a case in Charlotte of a LG arrest that was discussed here a couple years back, you may want to do a search and see if you can find it. Unless somebody remembers.
    Yeah, not trying to debate whether or not to carry a long gun, and I agree that a handgun is much more practical for everyday carry.

    I highly doubt that a successful argument could be made for saying the rifle is "readily accessible" when several steps are required to access it regardless of whether or not is locked. A lock could realistically add 0-5 seconds to an already 10-15 second long process of stopping the bike, dismounting, and moving in position to open/unlock the case, and I doubt anybody could prove that 15 seconds is "readily accessible" and 18 seconds is not.

    Anyways, that's just speculation, but I'd feel comfortable arguing that in front of a judge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    <snip>
    Nothing against long guns, just it doesn't make much sense when we can OC a handgun.
    I can see why someone would want to carry a shotgun or rifle over a handgun....

    accuracy for one, power is another (a 308 rifle would have better penetration than a 9mm handgun), range is another (150 feet is an easy shot v. a 25 foot easy shot)

    And of course, ownership of what the carrier has (maybe does not own a handgun)

    You want protection, carry a 9mm handgun .... want great protection, carry a AR10 ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I can see why someone would want to carry a shotgun or rifle over a handgun....

    accuracy for one, power is another (a 308 rifle would have better penetration than a 9mm handgun), range is another (150 feet is an easy shot v. a 25 foot easy shot)

    And of course, ownership of what the carrier has (maybe does not own a handgun)

    You want protection, carry a 9mm handgun .... want great protection, carry a AR10 ....
    Except for hunting/hiking I find a long gun cumbersome. It would be darn near useless on a MC or even a car. I don't plan on being in a defensive situation where I need a 150 yard shot, even 25 yards the shot could be avoided in most cases(75 feet). If a person has to deal with bears on the highway maybe, but not likely. A handgun would definitely have the advantage on a motorcycle.

    I support the right to open carry a LG, for me it is not practical. YMMV

    Bob Munden was known to take 300 yard shots with a snub nose handgun.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 12-29-2013 at 02:55 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Reminder of my post immediately following the OP:

    "Just to preempt any concerns about "long gun" carry, no succinct exchange regarding how to stay within the law will be considered off-topic or a rule violation as it pertains to the question posed. Please don't diverge from these limits."

    This thread is limited to whether such is legal in NC, but not available to discuss the merits or preferences of long gun carry.
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    It has been remarked that a double-barrel gun, or any other gun, cannot in this country come under the description of "unusual weapons," for there is scarcely a man in the community who does not own and occasionally use a gun of some sort. But we do not feel the force of this criticism. A gun is an "unusual weapon," wherewith to be armed and clad. No man amongst us carries it about with him, as one of his every day accoutrements—as a part of his dress—and never, we trust, will the day come when any deadly weapon will be worn or wielded in our peace-loving and law-abiding State, as an appendage of manly equipment. But although a gun is an "unusual weapon," it is to be remembered that the carrying of a gun, per se, constitutes no (sic) offence. For any lawful purpose—either of business or amusement—the citizen is at perfect liberty to carry his gun. It is the wicked purpose, and the mischievous result, which essentially constitute the crime. He shall not carry about this or any other weapon of death to terrify and alarm, and in such manner as naturally will terrify and alarm a peaceful people.[6]

    State v. Robert S. Huntley
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    It has been remarked that a double-barrel gun, or any other gun, cannot in this country come under the description of "unusual weapons," for there is scarcely a man in the community who does not own and occasionally use a gun of some sort. But we do not feel the force of this criticism. A gun is an "unusual weapon," wherewith to be armed and clad. No man amongst us carries it about with him, as one of his every day accoutrements—as a part of his dress—and never, we trust, will the day come when any deadly weapon will be worn or wielded in our peace-loving and law-abiding State, as an appendage of manly equipment. But although a gun is an "unusual weapon," it is to be remembered that the carrying of a gun, per se, constitutes no (sic) offence. For any lawful purpose—either of business or amusement—the citizen is at perfect liberty to carry his gun. It is the wicked purpose, and the mischievous result, which essentially constitute the crime. He shall not carry about this or any other weapon of death to terrify and alarm, and in such manner as naturally will terrify and alarm a peaceful people.[6]

    State v. Robert S. Huntley
    That reminds me of the GAttTotP commonlaw crap. The only meaningful piece of that paragraph is the sentence I put in bold.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDFbound View Post
    That reminds me of the GAttTotP commonlaw crap. The only meaningful piece of that paragraph is the sentence I put in bold.
    From what I take from the ruling is that open carry of any gun is legal as long as there is not behavior to alarm the public. IMO that would be waving the gun, yelling at people while carrying a gun, ya know acting nuts. NOW some police may interpret it completely different than I do. I do know that the Kerner ruling points specifically to handguns, which would make it hard to use for a long gun.

    IMO legal, but rolling the dice.
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    The 2nd Amendment includes both hand guns and long guns, i.e. arms suitable for militia purposes..

    Amendment II

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


    NC law according to AG.

    http://www.ncdoj.com/getdoc/32344299...-gun-Laws.aspx

    The prohibition to carrying concealed weapons applies not only to handguns and other weapons commonly thought of as being easily hidden, but also to “long guns” as well. Therefore, shotguns and rifles concealed behind the seat of pickup trucks, and elsewhere in other vehicles, could similarly violate North Carolina law. As to those vehicles with no easily discernible trunk area (e.g., SUVs, vans, etc.), it becomes a factual determination of when the weapon is within ready and easy access to an occupant of the vehicle. If the weapon is concealed near, in close proximity to, or within the convenient control and access of an occupant, which would allow him/her to use the weapon quickly, then a fair probability exists that the occupant is in violation of the law. Therefore, care must be exercised by any occupant of any vehicle to ensure that weapons are securely locked away in as remote an area as possible, in relation to the passenger compartment of the vehicle. It is important to emphasize that these prohibitions apply to passengers, as well as drivers of any vehicle.
    Last edited by American Patriot; 12-29-2013 at 08:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by American Patriot View Post
    The 2nd Amendment includes both hand guns and long guns, i.e. arms suitable for militia purposes..

    Amendment II

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
    No one here disagrees with that - quite to the contary.

    However, OCDO postings/threads are specifically limited to promoting and defending the right to carry handguns as we go about our normal everyday lives - the exceptions to this are few.

    (14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry. Exception: This rule does NOT apply to discussions about long gun carry in jurisdictions which ban handgun carry but not long gun carry and thus require long gun carry as a matter of public policy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    No one here disagrees with that - quite to the contary.

    However, OCDO postings/threads are specifically limited to promoting and defending the right to carry handguns as we go about our normal everyday lives - the exceptions to this are few.
    I feel I've gotten some good references to help answer my original questions, and have saved some of the court cases for future reference. If you feel the thread has gotten out of control, feel free to close it. Lol sorry for being the root cause of yet another handgun vs long gun debate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TDFbound View Post
    I feel I've gotten some good references to help answer my original questions, and have saved some of the court cases for future reference. If you feel the thread has gotten out of control, feel free to close it. Lol sorry for being the root cause of yet another handgun vs long gun debate.
    Not a problem. People here are passionate about their rights and it shows - that is a good thing.

    From my personal perspective, I don't care what you carry as long as you do so responsibly and legally. Seldom is more than a gentle nudge needed to redirect the traffic - the good people here help greatly with that.

    Good luck on your ride - may the wind always be at your back.
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    You should read Kerner V NC, our right to OC a military style handgun is protected. I do not believe the justices made reference to long guns.
    What is a military style handgun?

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pirateguy191 View Post
    What is a military style handgun?
    Probably most all handguns, except maybe very very small handguns like the tiny pocket 22 rimfires.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pirateguy191 View Post
    What is a military style handgun?
    I would argue that a military style handgun is any handgun that can be used in an offensive and/or defensive manner.
    Last edited by TDFbound; 01-19-2014 at 12:58 PM.

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    "Military-style semi-automatic firearms do not differ materially from non-military style semi-automatic firearms (one bullet is fired for each pull of the trigger) and are no more powerful than other semi-automatic weapons.
    http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcassaul.html

    Military style guns is simply a scare tactic for which there is no basis in fact.

    The military will use whatever works - so should we.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDFbound View Post
    I would argue that a military style handgun is any handgun that can be used in an offensive and/or defensive manner.
    Per Kerner the state, or local government can restrict carry on size. The wording as to military handguns has to do with those guns that are not easily concealed. The restriction in Chapel Hill I believe is 8 inches, and that is measrued from the tip of the barrel to the rear of the slide, plus the measurement from the top of the handgun to the heal. Most compacts are according to that restriction legal. The military term used in Kerner was 90 years ago 1921. Before the hype of today.

    I believe there are federal rulings also to support that citizens have access to military weapons. NRA brought us this mess with the NFA. and then GCA. Before that citizens had access to all weapons that the military uses. This is the true intention of 2A, not self defense as the courts would have us believe. It is a check against tyranny and for that to be effective we must have access to the same weapons. Not many soldiers are issued or carry a NAA pocket revolver.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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