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Thread: Primer on Why open carry

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Primer on Why open carry

    Said succinctly - covers all of the main points.

    I submit that if this is not perfection in describing the why of open carry, it is most nearly so.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaM-G5YOAmU#t=33m30s
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    Here is a link that starts the video at the open carry part.

    http://youtu.be/HaM-G5YOAmU?t=33m30s
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

  3. #3
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    This on is 95% good

    Does Open Carry have practical merits? Does it have a hidden legal benefit? We take a close look and Open vs. Concealed Carry.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CfA6azF3Dw

    My only point of contention with this offering is that the host is weak on OCing where you are the only one doing so.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Now a word from the other side of OC vs CC

    First they say that they are not going call call OCers stupid, but the title is "Open Carry is Stupid" - that should give you a clue

    You will either laugh or cry at their "expert" arguments - just remember that their opinions are expelled from one of their body orifaces

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLLxkMrBsFA
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    First they say that they are not going call call OCers stupid, but the title is "Open Carry is Stupid" - that should give you a clue

    You will either laugh or cry at their "expert" arguments - just remember that their opinions are expelled from one of their body orifaces

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLLxkMrBsFA
    GS, I now hate you for posting that link.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
    "Evil often triumphs, but never conquers." Joseph Roux
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    GS, I now hate you for posting that link.
    Don't shoot the messenger - I'm just showing the enemy within.....
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member NewZealandAmerican's Avatar
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    Open Carry vs Conceal Carry

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Said succinctly - covers all of the main points.

    I submit that if this is not perfection in describing the why of open carry, it is most nearly so.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaM-G5YOAmU#t=33m30s
    Kia ora, G'day Grapeshot, thanks so much for all you do for Liberty and Open Carry! Thought you might like this from a guy called "Mainsail" on a different forumn. I think his article is very imformative and a useful resource for open carry!



    The Open Carry Argument by Mainsail
    http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-...-argument.html

    My primary goal when I’m out and about, besides whatever I went out and about to do, is to go about peaceably and not be the victim of a violent crime. To that end I carry a firearm whenever I go out as well as follow all the other standard safety practices like maintaining situational awareness, staying out of high crime areas, and avoiding confrontation. I also have a larger overall goal of making it through my life without shooting anyone. Simply put, I don’t want to be responsible, legally or morally, for another’s death. Those two goals might appear at first blush to be mutually exclusive, and with concealed carry it would be a difficult set of goals to realize.

    Carry of any firearm or other weapon for defensive purposes is a solemn responsibility. Those of us that do (openly or concealed) are mortified by the idea, constantly promoted by the pacifists, that our behavior is more reckless because we are armed. In other words, because we carry a handgun we take more risks than we would if we were unarmed. While it would be dishonest to claim we are all responsible gun owners, it is my belief that the vast majority of us are. Regardless of what or how you carry, you need to come to the realization that you are setting yourself up to lose. Whenever you are placed in a defensive situation, you will always lose; it’s only the degree of loss that’s negotiable. Ayoob hits on this in his book, In the Gravest Extreme. He suggests tossing the robber a small wad of cash and moving off, even if you could prevail with a weapon. There’s a very good reason for this. Regardless of how skilled you are at drawing your weapon, you are going to lose. It may be only a minor loss, like being very shaken up and not sleeping well for a few days, or it may be a major loss, like becoming fertilizer, or (most likely) it may be somewhere in-between, but you always lose. Your life will not be the same even if you prevail.

    Carrying a concealed firearm presents to a criminal that I am unarmed. Every study I’ve ever read, not most but every study, says that criminals will avoid an armed person or home when selecting a victim. That only makes sense, right? Robbers, rapists, or carjackers might be dumb and opportunistic, but they have the same instinctual sense of self preservation we all have. Hyenas don’t attack lions to steal the gazelle the lions have just killed. It’s all about risk management; are the potential gains (a tasty gazelle dinner) worth the risks (pain and damage the lion’s teeth will cause), and does the hyena really need to test the lion to figure out the answer? No, the hyena can see the lion’s teeth and knows to stay well clear.

    Deterrent Value:
    When I’m carrying concealed I feel like my ‘teeth’ are hidden, and thus of no real deterrent value. If I appear unarmed then I am unarmed in the eyes of the robber, I appear as easy a target as almost anyone else out on the street. My probability of being a victim of a crime, violent or otherwise, is completely unchanged by the fact that I have hidden beneath my shirt the means to defend myself. My goal, however, is not to be a victim in the first place, remember? I don’t want to be a victim that fought back successfully and triumphed; I prefer to not be victimized at all. I recognize that there are some people who (think they) want to be victimized so they can whip out their concealed firearm and ‘surprise’ the mugger; that is, in my opinion, foolish immaturity. Concealed carry is good; it throws a wrench in the works for criminals who might see the teeming masses as a smorgasbord of financial gain. This deterrent effect is, nonetheless, indirect and often nil. At some point the thug will weigh the risks vs. the gains; is his current desperation for money/drugs/booze/gold grille greater than the gamble that one of those people might be carrying a gun? If he decides to play the odds, which helped along with surprise tip the scale in his favor, he will attack. Will his attack allow enough time for me to draw my concealed firearm to affect a defense? Maybe, but then again, maybe not.

    Remember, I don’t want to be a victim and I don’t want to shoot anyone. So how do I realize both goals; or how do I make them inclusive? I can do that through open carry. By making it clear and obvious that I am armed, that I have teeth, I tip the risk scale to the point that the criminal’s gains are far outweighed by the risk. There is no ambiguity when the thug is doing his risk assessment, there’s something right there in plain sight that can quickly and painfully change or terminate his life. You may not think his life has much value, but as I mentioned before, he has the same sense of self preservation as any other living creature and to him it’s every bit as valuable as yours is to you. It would be foolish to ignore this indisputable fact when you develop your overall tactical strategy.

    The Five Stages of Violent Crime
    I am a firm believer in this defense theology and urge anyone who carries a firearm for protection (and even those who do not) to follow the link and read it carefully. Please, for your and your family’s sake, read that. Drill down into the hyperlinks for better explanations; absorb as much information as you can. A violent crime does not begin at the point where one person with ill intent draws a weapon or attacks another.
    Quote:
    The Five Stages of Violent Crime:
    Crime and violence are processes that take time to develop. The attack is not the first step, the preliminary triangle must be built. There are five distinct stages that are easily identified:
    1) Intent
    2) Interview
    3) Positioning
    4) Attack
    5) Reaction

    I do not believe the act begins after the BG has made his intentions known by drawing on you (attack); it began when he formed the intent. Well, there’s not a lot I can do personally to stop another’s intent, so I need to look a little farther along in the sequence and try to derail that train before it gets to the attack. For the sake of argument, let’s remove weapons from the equation for just a moment. A 5’2” unarmed attacker isn’t going to choose a 6’6” victim over a 5’1” victim, right? He’s going to attack the easier target. Now let’s come back to the reality of violent crime and add back the weapons. Concealed carry presumes it is better to wait until the opponent has drawn his knife or gun and then try to ‘fix’ the situation. It’s seems a bit foolish to promote the idea that it’s better to attempt to stop a violent crime in the fourth stage when you could instead prevent it in the second. A concealed weapon cannot deter an attack at the ‘interview’ stage; it’s completely ineffectual in that role. Open carry is the only method that provides a direct deterrent. Let’s say the bad-guy missed the openly carried pistol and holster during the interview stage, and has proceeded to the ‘positioning’ stage. Chances are pretty good he’ll see it at some point then, right? Then, let’s say the planets have all aligned just so and he, for whatever reason, has begun his attack despite your openly carried sidearm. At this point, the OCer is on level footing with the CCer, the attack has begun. Who has the advantage? Well, I’m going to say that with all things being equal (skill level and equipment) the OCer has a speed of draw advantage over the CCer.

    First One To Be Shot:
    There are some who criticize open carry and claim it will make you more of a target or ‘the first one shot’ when a robber walks into the 7-11, despite the absolute lack of credible evidence that this has ever happened. If the robber walks in and sees that you’re armed, his whole plan has encountered an unexpected variable. In bank robberies where he might expect to see an armed guard he will have already factored that possibility into his plan, but only for the armed guard, not for open or concealed carry citizens. No robber robs a bank without at least a rudimentary plan. Nevertheless, being present for a bank robbery is an extremely remote possibility for most of us regardless of our preferred method of handgun carry, so let’s go back in the 7-11. If the robber sees someone is armed he is forced to either significantly alter the plan or abort it outright. Robbing is an inherently apprehensive occupation, and one that doesn’t respond well to instant modifications. He is not prepared to commit murder when he only planned for larceny. He knows that a petty robbery will not garner the intense police manhunt a murder would. He doesn’t know if you’re an armed citizen or a police officer and isn’t going to take the time to figure it out. Either way, if someone in the 7-11 is unexpectedly armed, how many others might be similarly adorned and where might they be? Does this unexpectedly armed individual have a partner who is likewise armed nearby, someone who is watching right now? Self preservation compels him to abort the plan for one that is less risky. So we see that the logic matches the history; open carriers are not the first ones shot because it doesn’t make sense in any common street crime scenario that they would be. If your personal self protection plan emphasizes “Hollywood” style crimes over the more realistic street mugging, it might be best to stay home.

    Surprise:
    Probably the most common condemnation of open carry comes from the armchair tacticians who believe it’s better to have the element of surprise in a criminal encounter. Although this was touched on in the previous paragraph about deterrence, I’ll expand on it specifically here because there are some important truths you need to consider before you lean too heavily on this false support. Surprise as a defensive tactic is often based on unrealistic or ill-thought out scenarios, and seems to exist only in the minds of concealed carry firearms proponents. The circumstance where several street toughs surround and taunt you for a while before robbing you, like in some Charles Bronson movie, is not realistic; the mugger wants to get in and out as fast as possible. In most cases you will have only seconds to realize what’s happening, make a decision, and react. Imagine you’re walking along the sidewalk when two gangsta looking teenagers suddenly appear at the corner coming in the opposite direction. You have only seconds to react if their intent was to victimize you. Do you draw your concealed firearm now or wait until there’s an actual visible threat? If they are just on their way to church and you pull a gun on them, you are the criminal and you will likely forever lose your firearms rights for such a foolish action. If you don’t draw and they pull a knife or pistol when they’re just a couple steps away, your only options are draw (if you think you can) or comply. Imagine staring at the shiny blade of a knife being held by a very nervous and violent mugger, three inches from your or your wife’s throat and having to decide whether or not you have time to draw from concealment. The element of surprise may not do you any good; in fact the only surprising thing that might happen is that your concealed carry pistol gets taken along with your wallet. The thug will later get a good chuckle with his buddies about how you brought a gun to a knife fight. The simple truth is that while surprise is a monumentally superior tactical maneuver, it is exclusively an offensive action, not a defensive one. What many internet commandos call ‘defensive surprise’ is nothing more than damage control, a last ditch effort to fight your way back out of a dangerous situation. I am not aware of any army that teaches using surprise as a defense against attack. No squad of soldiers goes on patrol with their weapons hidden so that they can ‘surprise’ the enemy should they walk into an ambush.

    It Will Get Stolen:
    Another common criticism of open carry is that the firearm itself will be the target of theft, prompting a criminal to attack simply to get the gun from you. Like the previous example of being the first one shot in a robbery, above, this is despite the fact that there is no credible evidence it happens. It also blindly ignores the more obvious fact that anything you possess can make you the target of a crime, be it a car, a watch, or even a female companion (girlfriend, wife, or daughter). Crooks commonly steal for only one of two reasons; to get something you have that they want, or to get something that you have so they can sell it and buy something they want. I don’t claim it could never happen; just that it’s so remote a possibility that it doesn’t warrant drastic alterations to our self defense strategies. If you believe otherwise, leave your wife, children, watch, sunglasses, jewelry, and cell phone at home, hop into your Pinto wagon, and head out to do your thing. Very often, someone critical of open carry will cite some example of a uniformed police officer whose gun was taken by a violent criminal, and yes, this does indeed happen. The argument, however, breaks down when they assume the officer was targeted solely to steal his firearm. What is more likely is that the officer was targeted merely for being a police officer and the gun was stolen as a byproduct of the attack. More often, the officer’s gun is taken during the struggle to get the suspect into custody due to an entirely unrelated matter. However, let’s suppose, for argument, that a police officer really was attacked just to get his firearm. What actions did the police department take to prevent it from reoccurring? Did they demand that their officers carry concealed? No, of course not. You should, like the police, prioritize your defense strategy for the most likely threat first, and the least likely last.

    It Scares People:
    One other statement against open carry I hear is that it damages public perception of firearms owners, or that by carrying openly we are not being good ambassadors to the public. While there are some people who have a genuine fear of firearms, due either to some horrible past experience or anti-gun indoctrination, the majority of people are either indifferent to them or quite fascinated by them. I’ve never kept track of the dozens of fellow citizens I’ve encountered who have marveled at the idea of open carry, but I do know exactly how many have expressed displeasure at it; one. People are scared of many things for many reasons; however, pretending those things do not exist only perpetuates the fear. Someone who is disturbed by open carry is going to be every bit as disturbed by concealed carry. The only effective way to overcome a fear is to come to the intellectual realization that the phobia is based on emotion and not on fact. By being a firsthand witness that a firearm was carried responsibly and peaceably, and wasn’t being carried in the commission of a crime, one who was apprehensive about firearms discovers their fear is not fact based, but emotional. Thus, open carry can be a very effectual way of helping to overcome the emotionally based fear of the firearm. After all, you’d be much more likely to believe in ghosts if you saw one rather than if you listened to a ghost story around a campfire. In other words, we give significantly more credibility to the things we experience than we do to the things we hear. The bottom line is that this argument is made by people who don’t, cant, or haven’t carried openly; those of us who do so on a regular basis have an entirely different experience.

    I’m Not Comfortable Carrying Openly:
    This is really the only reasonable argument against open carry for an individual. We all have a comfort zone for any aspect of our lives and we prefer to stay within that comfort zone. We all agree that it’s better to be armed and never need the firearm than it is to need it and not have it. There is a point where concealing your firearm becomes so problematic, due to conditions like temperature or comfort, that some choose to either leave it behind or carry in such a way that it would be difficult or impossible to draw it quickly. If it takes me five or six seconds to draw my firearm from deep concealment and I had sufficient time before hand to actually do so, I would prefer to use that five or six seconds to avoid the entire encounter. I’m glad we have concealed carry laws in most of the states; it empowers and protects not only us but the general public through the offset deterrent effect. Some of us, however, choose the more direct deterrent effect of open carry.

    Conclusion
    No, open carry is not the be-all-end-all of self defense any more than concealed carry is. The purpose of this essay is not to convince you to carry a firearm openly, but to merely point out the reasoning I used to determine that it is often the best option for me. If you think otherwise, please feel free to write an essay of your own outlining the reasoning you used. I would suggest that you avoid the intellectual mistake of emphasizing rare or unlikely defense scenarios that many of us will never experience. I believe one should prioritize for the most likely threat, not the least likely threat. I don’t put Hollywood style bank robberies high on my threat list because I rarely go into a bank and those types of robberies are very rare themselves. I live in the most crime riddled city in the northwest; the most likely threat here is some young male with a knife or gun trying to carjack me or mug me on the street, in the park, or in a parking lot. With this knowledge I build my personal self protection plan based on that manner of attack. This may not suit you, especially if you live in Hollywood.


    Here is another quote I like in support of carrying a gun, a quote that "Whitney" used in this thread http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...You-Open-Carry

    Post #8




    Why I Open Carry

    My old grandpa said to me, "Son, there comes a time in every man's
    life when he stops bustin' knuckles and starts bustin' caps and
    usually it's when he becomes too old to take an ass whoopin'."

    I don't have a gun to kill people. I have a gun to keep from being
    killed.

    I don't have a gun to scare people. I have a gun because sometimes
    this world can be a scary place.

    I don't have a gun because I'm paranoid. I have a gun because there
    are real threats in the world.

    I don't have a gun because I'm evil. I have a gun because I have
    lived long enough to see the evil in the world.

    I don't have a gun because I hate the government. I have a gun
    because I understand the limitations of government.

    I don't have a gun because I'm angry. I have a gun so that I don't
    have to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be
    prepared.

    I don't have a gun because I want to shoot someone. I have a gun
    because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed, and not on a
    sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.

    I don't have a gun because I'm a cowboy. I have a gun because, when
    I die and go to Heaven, I want to be a cowboy.

    I don't have a gun to make me feel like a man. I have a gun because
    men know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love.

    I don't have a gun because I feel inadequate. I have a gun because
    unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.

    I don't have a gun because I love it. I have a gun because I love
    life and the people who make it meaningful to me.

    "Police Protection" is an oxymoron. Free citizens must protect
    themselves. Police do not protect you from crime; they usually just
    investigate the crime after it happens and then call someone in to
    clean up the mess.

    Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old
    to take an ass whoopin'.
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    Last edited by NewZealandAmerican; 10-26-2014 at 04:19 AM.
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  8. #8
    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    I very much disagree with this:

    Regardless of how skilled you are at drawing your weapon, you are going to lose. It may be only a minor loss, like being very shaken up and not sleeping well for a few days, or it may be a major loss, like becoming fertilizer, or (most likely) it may be somewhere in-between, but you always lose. Your life will not be the same even if you prevail.
    I had to shoot a man to save my life. I was successful, regardless of the situation, and he was lucky not to be injured badly. I count that as a complete WIN for myself, and found in it great incentive to improve my odds if there should ever be another such threat. I believe I have managed that one nicely as well. See the story of that encounter here: http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/?page_id=846

    Since then, I've run into a few situations that might have gone bad if I had not had my gun. "Unreported – The Crime That Didn’t Happen" http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/?p=3570

    Yes, being able and willing to defend oneself and others is an awesome responsibility. Being forced into a position to shoot another person may very well be a life changing experience, and how one would react to that is very much an individual thing - but it certainly doesn't have to be the end of the world. I don't ever want to harm another person for any reason, but I'm not going to suffer the loss of my own life or other innocents because of exaggerated fears. I did not hesitate to pull the trigger then, and I would not hesitate if I had it to do again.
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MamaLiberty View Post
    ....

    I did not hesitate to pull the trigger then, and I would not hesitate if I had it to do again.
    I consistently say to someone who tells me they are going to buy a gun for self defense that they need to be able to say that without hesitation or qualification. If they cannot do so then they need to find another means of defending themself.

    Not so much because their gun will be taken away from them (although that is a high probality, regardless if it used against them or not) but because any hesitation decreases you chance of being successful in defending yourself. Time, distance, and movement are your friends, When you are far enough away to have the time to move away. At the bad breath distances that most self defense situations seem to take place at, you need to do something to give you the time to move far enough away while doing everything possible to stop the threat. (Having taken the time to move far enough away, you can then determine if the threat has been stopped or not.)

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    I consistently say to someone who tells me they are going to buy a gun for self defense that they need to be able to say that without hesitation or qualification. If they cannot do so then they need to find another means of defending themself.
    I concur. That consideration was the biggest factor I had to think through before deciding to carry.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  11. #11
    Regular Member J_dazzle23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MamaLiberty View Post
    I very much disagree with this:



    I had to shoot a man to save my life. I was successful, regardless of the situation, and he was lucky not to be injured badly. I count that as a complete WIN for myself, and found in it great incentive to improve my odds if there should ever be another such threat. I believe I have managed that one nicely as well. See the story of that encounter here: http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/?page_id=846

    Since then, I've run into a few situations that might have gone bad if I had not had my gun. "Unreported – The Crime That Didn’t Happen" http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/?p=3570

    Yes, being able and willing to defend oneself and others is an awesome responsibility. Being forced into a position to shoot another person may very well be a life changing experience, and how one would react to that is very much an individual thing - but it certainly doesn't have to be the end of the world. I don't ever want to harm another person for any reason, but I'm not going to suffer the loss of my own life or other innocents because of exaggerated fears. I did not hesitate to pull the trigger then, and I would not hesitate if I had it to do again.
    I think the point being made is that drawing your weapon is always a lose - lose compared to NOT having to draw it. At least that's what I gathered.

    If I was at all able to avoid a situation or d escalate, it would be far better than pulling the trigger in justified self defense.

    That being said, I agree with what you are getting at.

  12. #12
    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    I got as far as seeing the name of the poster on the YouTube video. No thanks. He has nothing to say that I want to hear.
    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

  13. #13
    Regular Member BlueSquid's Avatar
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    I'm subscribed to a lot of gun channels, I enjoy watching and reading just about all I can in regards to gun use, care, culture, etc. That being said, Yeager is someone who, while I have watched a few of his videos, I have never subscribed to. I have a hard time taking him seriously, despite all of his qualifications and history. As others have said, he just doesn't have all that much to say that I'm interested in hearing.

    In regards to the "every time you draw it's a lose," I can see the wisdom in that. I carry not because I want to use my gun. I carry so I can be honest with myself in saying that, whether or not something actually happened (and for 99% of us on this board our daily lives thankfully don't include a self defense situation), I did my best to make sure I got home to my family that day. Or that I did everything within reason to ensure my wife and my baby girl were and are safe. I've never hesitated when answering that question, Skid. I don't even consider it a question, honestly. Being active duty and spending my work days on a base that prohibits the possession of a firearm, even if left in your vehicle, I spend enough time out by myself unarmed and at a disadvantage. I'll take my chances with possibly having a few sleepless nights as the result of keeping those girls safe when I'm with them.

    But yeah, that first vid was great. Glad someone brought this thread back up to the top, I hadn't seen it until now.
    Last edited by BlueSquid; 10-29-2014 at 01:41 AM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member NewZealandAmerican's Avatar
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    Adding this article in support of open carrying also

    The Gun is Civilization

    by Marko Kloos

    Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

    In a truly moral andcivilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

    When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

    The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity inphysical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.
    There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

    People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

    Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.

    People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitutelethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

    The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

    When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation. and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

    So the greatest civilization is one where all citizens are equally armed and can only be persuaded, never forced.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 11-06-2014 at 06:28 AM. Reason: fixed - paragraphs
    (Dion Wood). MY FREEDOM PAGE[/COLOR] with valuable links to ALTERNATIVE MEDIA, Internet Radio shows and other sites to restore our FREEDOM & LIBERTYhttp://www.QRZ.com/db/KB9QFH TELEPHONE: +1(800)808-KIWI that's +1(800)808-5494 Tollfree. "NewZealander By Birth, American By The Grace Of God." See also http://www.facebook.com/NewZealandAmerican & http://RTR.org/NewZealandAmerican “IN MEMORY OF OUR GOD, OUR RELIGION, AND FREEDOM, AND OUR PEACE, OUR WIVES, AND OUR CHILDREN" (The Title Of LIBERTY)

  15. #15
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Said succinctly - covers all of the main points.

    I submit that if this is not perfection in describing the why of open carry, it is most nearly so.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaM-G5YOAmU#t=33m30s
    This man does a superb job of explaining what we all know to be fact. Thanks so much for sharing this with us.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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