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Thread: What to do after a defensive shooting

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    What to do after a defensive shooting

    The most important article you will read: What to do after a defensive shooting

    This article, as written, hopefully will help bring us a sense of order and understanding on how to better prepare ourselves for handling, or even responding to a shooting event and its aftermath.

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/30/the-most-important-article-you-will-read-what-to-do-after-a-defensive-shooting/
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-28-2013 at 02:33 PM. Reason: fixed link
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    Regular Member Griz's Avatar
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    need to loose an "http://" in the link

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/30/th...ive-shooting/#!

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Griz View Post
    need to loose an "http://" in the link

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/30/th...ive-shooting/#!
    Done. Appreciate it.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Why call the police? If the intruder is dead, I like the idea of duct taping the corpse to a lawn chair and put him out on the curb with a note : this is what happens when you are a thief

    The article says: Everything you say can, and usually will be used against you in a court of law. Even if you are in-the-right.

    Then the next freaking sentence: Advise the officers....

    You say NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING

    You call your lawyer FIRST and have him call the cops if need be....

    You can arrest someone yourself and have you and your lawyer take him to the DA's office ... another option

    Why call the police and INVITE them into your house...for a nice search...

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    I wouldn't even say as much as the author suggests. In the 911 call, I will say that a man has been shot and that we need police and an ambulance. I will not say that I shot him. The advice on telling the dispatcher how I am dressed is good; that I will use. When the cops get there, I want them to recognize me as the caller, meaning that they are far more likely to assume that I am a GG. I will tell the dispatcher that I am armed so the police don't freak out when they arrive, but are prepared to tell me what they want me to do with my gun.

    Even after the officers arrive, I will not say that I shot the man. I will only relate what the attacker did and keep repeating the refrain that I believed myself to be in imminent mortal danger. Period. I will leave it to the officers to conclude that I shot the man. I do not want unfortunate phrasing to get the officers thinking wrong. However, I want to get my apprehension out there on the official record instantly. That is the ONE important fact to my claim of self-defense, the only fact about me that I feel needs to be out there immediately.

    Everything else can wait for the legal wranglers.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    interesting read...however

    dial 911 only, no attorney or friends phone number on my fone after an event.

    1. Operator 'i feared for my life and need immediate emergency assistance with my location.'
    2. Setting the phone on the ground line open. (not playing 20 questions)
    3. awaiting LE arrival being found standing in ready position significantly away but in sight from the disabled threat but with firearm at ready incase someone else decides to enter the situation.
    4. mantra recited to LE after their arrival: 'i feared for my life and i need immediate medical attention!' repeat as necessary to get medical personnel on scene for you!
    5. awaiting medial assistance for ride to hospital and away from the immediate area.

    asking hospital staff to call my attorney and tell him where i am located.

    safe haven (my location is the master bathroom) addition...using an old cell phone, double stick it in an reasonably hidden location (3/4 back in a medicine drawer) while leaving it plugged in for use to dial 911 (old cell phones can still dial 911 without any other service). this way i do not need to locate my phone in case of a home invasion and if the BG finds the my phone next to the bed they will presume I am w/o communication capabilities to the outside world.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 12-28-2013 at 07:31 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    You would wait for the police to arrive with a gun in your hand? That seems... dangerous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    You would wait for the police to arrive with a gun in your hand? That seems... dangerous.
    Yes, I would. The 911 dispatcher will be informed that I have a gun so that the responding cops will know and will not be surprised. I will have the gun in my hand until they arrive. I will follow their directions, most likely to put it down, when they arrive and have taken responsibility for securing the scene.


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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    You would wait for the police to arrive with a gun in your hand? That seems... dangerous.
    That is a good point.

    If outside, as soon I sight the first police car responding, I would place my firearm at my feet, keep my hands open and visible, and then do what the officer wants. "That man/woman (pointing at suspect) attacked me and caused me to fear for my life." would be, other than identifying myself as the law requires, my only direct communication to the police.

    If inside my home, the only variation to the "outside" scenario would be that I would wait until the officer was at my door and, before opening it to him/her, would then place the firearm on the floor and move away from it. Again, keep hands open and visible, obey the officer's commands, and say nothing other than as outlined. If it is at all possible, make sure you have one or more other firearms in a location in your home that the police will not be likely to search. My reasoning is that it is highly probable that the police will not only search your home after a defensive shooting but will seize any and all firearms and ammunition they find. You do not want to be left defenseless.

    There were some very good points about dealing with the media. Basically say nothing to them. That is one of the things you are paying an attorney for.

    Another good point concerned family and friends of the person against whom you defended yourself. In today's society, you can expect, at the least, a lot of threats and posturing. At the worst, you will see attempts at retaliation.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    if i needed to use my firearm for self defence, it would be used to mitigate the threat.

    I am not going near the agressor i just used my handgun on, nor am i going to be an egotist and know my self defence actions 'surely killed' the aggressor. therefore my stance will be from where i fired, my firearm will remain in my hands - in the ready position, awaiting instructions from the first responders!

    as long as the first responders find me, w/firearm pointed at the aggressor, it can go into their reports that way!

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    if i needed to use my firearm for self defence, it would be used to mitigate the threat.

    I am not going near the agressor i just used my handgun on, nor am i going to be an egotist and know my self defence actions 'surely killed' the aggressor. therefore my stance will be from where i fired, my firearm will remain in my hands - in the ready position, awaiting instructions from the first responders!

    as long as the first responders find me, w/firearm pointed at the aggressor, it can go into their reports that way!

    ipse
    The only problem I see with that is that officers responding to a "shots fired" call are going to be as nervous as a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. I don't want to give them even more reason to be nervous by seeing me standing there with my firearm in my hand.

    You're right about not going near the aggressor. I can also see keeping the firearm in my hands and in the ready position until the cop(s) get close, but not within range. I don't want a gun in my hand with nervous cops around.
    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

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    Good advice, but in reality how many people would be able to stay calm and focused in a defensive shooting. Everyone can have a plan and feel prepared to handle a situation, but when it happens most can't keep it together to remember what they should do.

    I am not directing this at anyone in particular, just people in general.

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    You make sure you perform effectively under pressure by practicing, making reactions as automatic as possible. These discussions are the practice.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    as my olde public speaking prof used to say...

    stand in front of a mirror and practice to yourself with a script in hand so you see your own reactions then lose the script and practice some more till the speech comes naturally.

    then ask a 'good' friend whom you trust explicitly to 'question' you like they believe the police would do...put a wager of dinner if you break your script - you'll know...

    and repeat every quarter...

    remember you only have a couple of lines...see my previous post!

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Simple problem, simple solution-
    Shoot, shovel, shut up.
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    Regular Member conandan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan 5 View Post
    Simple problem, simple solution-
    Shoot, shovel, shut up.
    +1

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I would call for a ambulance for myself, let the ambulance personnel notify the police. Once in their care I would refuse to talk to them. They will take over from there, there job is to care for me, and should only be allowed to talk to me with doctors permission. The hospital's job is to care for the patient, not assist police. This is why LEOs should not serve as EMTs, it is a conflict of interest.

    "Emergency services what is the nature of your call"

    "I am ill, I need a ambulance, I am at *****. I have a heart condition, and a heart implant. I am allergic to penicillin, and cipro."

    "Help is on the way, please sit or lay down until they arrive. Is there other people there with you?

    "Yes, there is another person in need of medical attention".

    That is as far as I would go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I would call for a ambulance for myself, let the ambulance personnel notify the police. Once in their care I would refuse to talk to them. They will take over from there, there job is to care for me, and should only be allowed to talk to me with doctors permission. The hospital's job is to care for the patient, not assist police. This is why LEOs should not serve as EMTs, it is a conflict of interest.

    "Emergency services what is the nature of your call"

    "I am ill, I need a ambulance, I am at *****. I have a heart condition, and a heart implant. I am allergic to penicillin, and cipro."

    "Help is on the way, please sit or lay down until they arrive. Is there other people there with you?

    "Yes, there is another person in need of medical attention".

    That is as far as I would go.
    That's sounds like a good idea. But I don't think I would trust the paramedics to be a buffer between me and LEO's. Once they hook you up and get your vitals they will know you are ok. Unless you really do have a condition. What's to stop them from telling the officers he is ok you can talk to him now.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conandan View Post
    That's sounds like a good idea. But I don't think I would trust the paramedics to be a buffer between me and LEO's. Once they hook you up and get your vitals they will know you are ok. Unless you really do have a condition. What's to stop them from telling the officers he is ok you can talk to him now.
    That is not for the paramedics to determine. The doctors on the other end of their communication would have to make that choice. And they always error on the side of safety.

    I have never seen a ambulance fail to transport unless the patient refused to go.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I would call for a ambulance for myself, let the ambulance personnel notify the police. Once in their care I would refuse to talk to them. They will take over from there, there job is to care for me, and should only be allowed to talk to me with doctors permission. The hospital's job is to care for the patient, not assist police. This is why LEOs should not serve as EMTs, it is a conflict of interest.

    "Emergency services what is the nature of your call"

    "I am ill, I need a ambulance, I am at *****. I have a heart condition, and a heart implant. I am allergic to penicillin, and cipro."

    "Help is on the way, please sit or lay down until they arrive. Is there other people there with you?

    "Yes, there is another person in need of medical attention".

    That is as far as I would go.
    ww...a good friend who i trust and who runs EMT for local EMS says if they walk in and find a gunshot victim, w/o the police there they will immediately leave w/o rendering aide and drive a distance away until the scene is secure and protected by police.

    i am unable to verify if this is standard policy but an working on it...will keep you apprised.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 02-02-2014 at 01:59 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    ww...a good friend who i trust and who runs EMT for local EMS says if they walk in and find a gunshot victim, w/o the police there they will immediately leave w/o rendering aide and drive a distance away until the scene is secure and protected by police.

    i am unable to verify if this is standard policy but an working on it...will keep you apprised.

    ipse
    They might but they will still be on the scene when police arrive, and attend to the injured, being me. Besides they will not know if they have a gunshot victim until they examine them. Unless it is a head shot.

    This is why I would not offer information in anyway that there was, is, or was part of a shooting. As far as the EMTs know they have a sick patient. AFA me being armed, I have already been in that situation, and it did not phase the EMTs a bit. My wife took control of the firearm, but once at the hospital the nurses secured the gun. It was returned to me as soon as I was discharged.

    The only thing that EMTs could testify to or tell police is they found a gunshot victim. I would not even tell the EMTs I discharged a firearm.

    You(general you) are not required by law to give up any information to anybody. Police or EMTs, or even hospital. It is only a crime if you attempt to cover up evidence, or lie to police. And unless things have changed once you are under a doctors care the doctor cannot release anything you tell them without your permission.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 02-02-2014 at 02:14 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    ww...a good friend who i trust and who runs EMT for local EMS says if they walk in and find a gunshot victim, w/o the police there they will immediately leave w/o rendering aide and drive a distance away until the scene is secure and protected by police.

    i am unable to verify if this is standard policy but an working on it...will keep you apprised.

    ipse
    During my Range Safety Officer training, we had a doctor and an EMT in the class. The instructor said that if you had a gunshot injury on the range to call it in as an accidental shooting injury during a training event. Otherwise, the responding medical personnel will wait for LE to report that the scene is secure before entering the area. The doctor and EMT both agreed, and reinforced that if you just call it in as a shooting that they will assume it is an "active shooter" incident until LE clears the scene, placing unwanted delay between the call and needed medical attention.
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  23. #23
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    During my Range Safety Officer training, we had a doctor and an EMT in the class. The instructor said that if you had a gunshot injury on the range to call it in as an accidental shooting injury during a training event. Otherwise, the responding medical personnel will wait for LE to report that the scene is secure before entering the area. The doctor and EMT both agreed, and reinforced that if you just call it in as a shooting that they will assume it is an "active shooter" incident until LE clears the scene, placing unwanted delay between the call and needed medical attention.
    I never mentioned calling it in as a shooting, active or negligent. EMTs would not know that there is a shooting until they discover gunshots. For that they have to be on the scene doing a examination. Unlike TV myths gunshots wounds are not obvious blocks away.

    Often EMTs got to the scene before I did, very often, and I never saw them hold back care. During a active shooting of course. Or in some cases the police force EMTs to hold back, as in the case where they were the shooters. Naturally under a active shooting they are going to hold back. Duuhhhhhhhhhh!

    I have been transported by ambulance several times, and once by med vac. All times I was armed and a gun was clearly on my person. All done without the police being there, or EMTs running away screaming like little girls.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
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    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
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  24. #24
    Regular Member JustaShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I never mentioned calling it in as a shooting, active or negligent. <rest of the irrelevant post snipped for brevity>
    Perhaps you missed that I was not referring to nor replying to your post.
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  25. #25
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustaShooter View Post
    Perhaps you missed that I was not referring to nor replying to your post.
    Since you followed my posting about calling paramedics it looked a lot like it to me. But then if you want to deny, go for it.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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