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Thread: Inside Man - Guna CNN

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Inside Man - Guna CNN

    Inside Man- Guns on CNN right now. Good show so far, has shown guns in a good light so far. They just had the host working in a gun shop and now hes at the range just shooting stuff. They even had a clip with a bunch of women and young kids shooting at the range.

    Side note.... the Gun Store owner just said even if you had the license a MP5 costs 15-20 THOUSAND dollars?? What?
    Last edited by Primus; 12-30-2013 at 01:17 AM.

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    Regular Member BrianB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Inside Man- Guns on CNN right now. Good show so far, has shown guns in a good light so far. They just had the host working in a gun shop and now hes at the range just shooting stuff. They even had a clip with a bunch of women and young kids shooting at the range.

    Side note.... the Gun Store owner just said even if you had the license a MP5 costs 15-20 THOUSAND dollars?? What?
    That's about right - for the unwashed masses. Actual price is around $800-$900 for a government agency I believe. But due to the Hughes amendment new machineguns have not been able to be made for civilian ownership since May of 1986. Therefore however many registered machineguns there were in this country in May of 1986 is all there will ever be. In truth the number is going down because they occasionally are stolen or destroyed. Fixed or declining supply coupled with increased demand equals crazy prices. A Colt M16A1 in excellent condition is about $22,000. A Colt Commando M16A2 is well over $30,000. Brand new for an agency they are less than $1K. A registered drop in auto sear for an AR15, like the ones you could buy in the early 80's for $40, but registered and therefore legal to use to convert an AR15 to full auto -- around $25,000.

    Of course this also means that newer models of machineguns are completely unavailable to civilians (if they weren't produced before May of 1986).

    Some day I see a constitutional challenge to 18 USC 922(o) being able to be successful, but I don't think that day has come just yet.
    Last edited by BrianB; 12-30-2013 at 01:34 AM.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info I had no idea the prices were that high. My mouth dropped when the guy said it. I need to get my green license.. even a tommy gun would be cool to have and I'm pretty sure they are alot cheaper.

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    Regular Member BrianB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Thanks for the info I had no idea the prices were that high. My mouth dropped when the guy said it. I need to get my green license.. even a tommy gun would be cool to have and I'm pretty sure they are alot cheaper.
    What's a "green license"? A "transferable" (made pre May 1986) Thompson will probably set you back about $24,000.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianB View Post
    What's a "green license"? A "transferable" (made pre May 1986) Thompson will probably set you back about $24,000.
    Its the MA machine gun license. MGL 140 ss 131:

    (o) No person shall be issued a license to carry or possess a machine gun in the commonwealth, except that a licensing authority or the colonel of state police may issue a machine gun license to:

    (i) a firearm instructor certified by the municipal police training committee for the sole purpose of firearm instruction to police personnel;

    (ii) a bona fide collector of firearms upon application or upon application for renewal of such license.

    https://malegislature.gov/Laws/Gener...140/Section131

    Some call it a green license because it has a green strip on it.

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    Regular Member BrianB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Its the MA machine gun license. MGL 140 ss 131:

    (o) No person shall be issued a license to carry or possess a machine gun in the commonwealth, except that a licensing authority or the colonel of state police may issue a machine gun license to:

    (i) a firearm instructor certified by the municipal police training committee for the sole purpose of firearm instruction to police personnel;

    (ii) a bona fide collector of firearms upon application or upon application for renewal of such license.

    https://malegislature.gov/Laws/Gener...140/Section131

    Some call it a green license because it has a green strip on it.
    Ah. Interesting. Almost surprised they allow it at all. Here in Florida the state has no part of the picture. They allow whatever you want so long as it is properly registered with the feds.

    If you're interested in getting into machineguns the Mac 11 9mm SMGs are about the most cost effective way to get into it. They were abundantly manufactured and can generally be had for well under $5000. Even this seems insane. At one point the assets of the defunct SWD were sold at auction and the M11 SMGs were sold off by the pallet for around $9 each. I bought my first M11 SMG in 1998 for $279, brand new in the box. Crazy.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianB View Post
    Ah. Interesting. Almost surprised they allow it at all. Here in Florida the state has no part of the picture. They allow whatever you want so long as it is properly registered with the feds.

    If you're interested in getting into machineguns the Mac 11 9mm SMGs are about the most cost effective way to get into it. They were abundantly manufactured and can generally be had for well under $5000. Even this seems insane. At one point the assets of the defunct SWD were sold at auction and the M11 SMGs were sold off by the pallet for around $9 each. I bought my first M11 SMG in 1998 for $279, brand new in the box. Crazy.

    Way cheaper on the free I mean Black Market.

    Which is what these government infringements create.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Thanks for the info I had no idea the prices were that high. My mouth dropped when the guy said it. I need to get my green license.. even a tommy gun would be cool to have and I'm pretty sure they are alot cheaper.

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    Now you understand the violence associated with drug dealing. Its the prohibition that makes prices artificially high and dealing so profitable.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Now you understand the violence associated with drug dealing. Its the prohibition that makes prices artificially high and dealing so profitable.
    Negative. If that was the case then guys would be getting murdered for having or selling tommy guns. There would be "turf wars" over what gun stores get to sell the banned weapons. The price alone isnt enough to cause violence and the fact it is banned isn't enough. Its the people who want to buy and sell said product. People who buy and sell said tommy gun are willing to wait and save the 25000 to buy one or go without. The people who buy and sell heroin or crack are more likely to go rob the next convenience store to get money for their next hit.

    Much more complicated then "ban equals violence".

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post

    Much more complicated then "ban equals violence".

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    In this case you are correct, but in general black markets draw scum which equals more violence. The demand for machine guns, I'm thinking, is pretty low. Criminals want handguns. Law abiding people would eagerly buy select fire rifles, but in reality they would use them in SA mode. Full auto is inaccurate and expensive.

    To the larger topic, I bet NFA owners wouldn't want the unconstitutional infringements on faster shooting guns lifted. The value of their investments would drop off the cliff. Given the low demand for full autos and the Hollywood generated myth that full auto's are WMD's, I see the infringements as here to stay.

    Suppressors are a different story. I see the federal restrictions lifted and them returning to hardware store shelves, where they were 40 years ago, and where they still are in certain places in Europe. I think we'll overcome Hollywood there.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member ron73440's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Inside Man- Guns on CNN right now. Good show so far, has shown guns in a good light so far. They just had the host working in a gun shop and now hes at the range just shooting stuff. They even had a clip with a bunch of women and young kids shooting at the range.

    Side note.... the Gun Store owner just said even if you had the license a MP5 costs 15-20 THOUSAND dollars?? What?
    The show looked interesting at first, but it didn't take him very long to call the NRA an arm of the gun manufacturers and quote the "90%" thing like it was Scripture.

    Overall, I wondered why I wasted my time when I should have known the direction the show was going to go.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ron73440 View Post
    The show looked interesting at first, but it didn't take him very long to call the NRA an arm of the gun manufacturers and quote the "90%" thing like it was Scripture.

    Overall, I wondered why I wasted my time when I should have known the direction the show was going to go.
    I didn't get to watch the whole thing. Most of the first half and then bits and pieces after.

    He showed the gun shop in a very good light. They let him speak his mind and his stance and didn't remotely make him look crazy like antis usually do.

    I think the point of the show was to show that there's a lot of guys right in the middle of the fight. A bunch of guys like guns but are ok with background checks and bans on certain guns.

    They interviewed that one guy who said the "5-10 rounds is used to get you out of the bad situation when younger to 30 rounds you are more on the offense then defense."

    Did anyone catch the cite for the "11,000" homicides with guns in 2012? The host said it but didnt say where he got 11000 from.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    I didn't get to watch the whole thing. Most of the first half and then bits and pieces after.

    He showed the gun shop in a very good light. They let him speak his mind and his stance and didn't remotely make him look crazy like antis usually do.

    I think the point of the show was to show that there's a lot of guys right in the middle of the fight. A bunch of guys like guns but are ok with background checks and bans on certain guns.

    They interviewed that one guy who said the "5-10 rounds is used to get you out of the bad situation when younger to 30 rounds you are more on the offense then defense."

    Did anyone catch the cite for the "11,000" homicides with guns in 2012? The host said it but didnt say where he got 11000 from.

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    There were 8,600 homicides in 2011 and less in 2012, though I couldn't find the exact # for 2012. The 11,000 # may include justifiable homicides, I don't know.

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr...e-data-table-8
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Regular Member ron73440's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    I didn't get to watch the whole thing. Most of the first half and then bits and pieces after.

    He showed the gun shop in a very good light. They let him speak his mind and his stance and didn't remotely make him look crazy like antis usually do.

    I think the point of the show was to show that there's a lot of guys right in the middle of the fight. A bunch of guys like guns but are ok with background checks and bans on certain guns.

    They interviewed that one guy who said the "5-10 rounds is used to get you out of the bad situation when younger to 30 rounds you are more on the offense then defense."

    Did anyone catch the cite for the "11,000" homicides with guns in 2012? The host said it but didnt say where he got 11000 from.

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    He kept saying he was in the middle, but was 100% in favor of the gun control legislation that didn't make it out of the senate and also 100% sure the NRA was a big money lobbying firm with no metion of how many millions of us opposed the bills or how many members the NRA has.
    What I told my wife when she said my steel Baby Eagle .45 was heavy, "Heavy is good, heavy is reliable, if it doesn't work you could always hit him with it."-Boris the Blade

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    I think the point of the show was to show that there's a lot of guys right in the middle of the fight. A bunch of guys like guns but are ok with background checks and bans on certain guns.
    I've seen this show several times - it was first aired a couple of months ago. I THOUGHT IT WAS ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING.

    The PRIMARY purpose of the show was to condition the sheeple to accept the coming Obamaban - new legislation the requires some kind of mental health evaluation to be able to buy a gun or perhaps required of all gun owners to own the guns they already have. Some kind of National Gun Ownership ID Card.

    Did you notice how many times they referred to how easily one can buy a gun without a mental health evaluation, even with the current background system? The host was aghast that you could simply walk into a gun store and buy a gun in just 5 minutes without there being any way to know if you are mentally-ill or not.

    They implied that mental illness constitutes the biggest part of the gun-violence problem.

    They even interviewed a gun show attendee who stated that there should be a mental health evaluation before being allowed to purchase a gun.

    That is the big debate going on right now.

    Check out this site which has a poll showing that 78% of the respondents answered YES to the question, "Should gun buyers be required to pass mental health tests?"

    http://www.debate.org/opinions/shoul...l-health-tests

    The proposed mental health background check/evaluation is a slippery slope for a variety of reasons - not the least of which is the fact that psychiatry is a complete pseudo-science.

    And just who do you all think will be doing these exams? How about a government psychiatrist? Do you really want to trust your gun rights to some sick government shrink??? Not me.

    I wrote about the black art of psychiatry and how it will be used to take away the gun rights of literally tens of millions of Americans in my thread at:

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...tion-s-website

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    Quote Originally Posted by Augustin View Post
    And just who do you all think will be doing these exams? How about a government psychiatrist? Do you really want to trust your gun rights to some sick government shrink??? Not me.

    I wrote about the black art of psychiatry and how it will be used to take away the gun rights of literally tens of millions of Americans in my thread at:

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...tion-s-website
    Who will decide if we're sane? Silly goose, why, psychiatrists like Major Nadal Hasan:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidal_Malik_Hasan

    Psychiatry is largely just a tool of the state.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Who will decide if we're sane? Silly goose, why, psychiatrists like Major Nadal Hasan:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidal_Malik_Hasan
    That's a good one! It made me laugh.

    But then again, if the Department of Homeland Security hired former Stasi chief Markus Wolfe and former head of the KGB General Yevgeni Primakov to implement CAPPS II and the coming biometric National ID Card System to be used as an internal passport, I suppose it makes perfect sense to hire Hasan to head the Obamaban Mental Health Gun Ownership Verification System.

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Augustin View Post
    That's a good one! It made me laugh.

    But then again, if the Department of Homeland Security hired former Stasi chief Markus Wolfe and former head of the KGB General Yevgeni Primakov to implement CAPPS II and the coming biometric National ID Card System to be used as an internal passport, I suppose it makes perfect sense to hire Hasan to head the Obamaban Mental Health Gun Ownership Verification System.
    LOL. Please don't give them ideas!
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  19. #19
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Negative. If that was the case then guys would be getting murdered for having or selling tommy guns. There would be "turf wars" over what gun stores get to sell the banned weapons. The price alone isnt enough to cause violence and the fact it is banned isn't enough. Its the people who want to buy and sell said product. People who buy and sell said tommy gun are willing to wait and save the 25000 to buy one or go without. The people who buy and sell heroin or crack are more likely to go rob the next convenience store to get money for their next hit.

    Much more complicated then "ban equals violence".

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    LOL....are you saying people are not getting killed in the black market for prohibited guns?

    The double speak in your post is humorous, the "turf" wars in the drug war is created because you can't go to you local legal drug store and buy your product. Like you can with other legal over the counter drugs like alcohol and caffeine.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    LOL....are you saying people are not getting killed in the black market for prohibited guns?

    The double speak in your post is humorous, the "turf" wars in the drug war is created because you can't go to you local legal drug store and buy your product. Like you can with other legal over the counter drugs like alcohol and caffeine.
    I think he's saying few people are killed over prohibited guns. Certainly many more people are killed over gangster silliness and drugs than guns. In 2000, I watched a documentary that said the street price in LA for a full auto AK was $300. A legal one is many thousands of $
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    I think he's saying few people are killed over prohibited guns. Certainly many more people are killed over gangster silliness and drugs than guns. In 2000, I watched a documentary that said the street price in LA for a full auto AK was $300. A legal one is many thousands of $
    Correct that's partially what I was saying.

    What I was saying is that ban doesn't equal violence. There are many many things that are banned that don't have a violent following with it. You needs to have a vast demand then a restriction for violence to flourish as well as many other socioeconomic aspects. While drugs are banned everywhere there are certain types that flourish in certain areas and that are linked to more violence then others.

    Again just saying that ban doesn't equal automatic violence. The violence isn't derived from the ban. It may be a contributing factor but not the sole factor .

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    I think he's saying few people are killed over prohibited guns. Certainly many more people are killed over gangster silliness and drugs than guns. In 2000, I watched a documentary that said the street price in LA for a full auto AK was $300. A legal one is many thousands of $
    I agree. But his point that the ban wasn't a major contributing factor to the killings is silly. Him correlation of it to firearms is a misdirection.

    The reason more people are not killed in this country over guns in my opinion is that most people are not desiring full autos and when they want them they can actually get them fairly inexpensive compared to the legal market.

    When it comes to illegal drugs, there is a huge demand for that, the unconstitutional prohibition, by the feds feeds the economic rule of supply and demand, so huge amounts of money are on the line for items that cost pennies to produce.

    The violent response of the state to those who are involved in the free market, uh I mean black market, suppressed by the state ups the ante tremendously.

    The reality of the most deaths, contrary to his allusion, in the prohibition is criminals killing criminals not people invading homes to steal for their addiction.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  23. #23
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I agree. But his point that the ban wasn't a major contributing factor to the killings is silly. Him correlation of it to firearms is a misdirection.

    The reason more people are not killed in this country over guns in my opinion is that most people are not desiring full autos and when they want them they can actually get them fairly inexpensive compared to the legal market.

    When it comes to illegal drugs, there is a huge demand for that, the unconstitutional prohibition, by the feds feeds the economic rule of supply and demand, so huge amounts of money are on the line for items that cost pennies to produce.

    The violent response of the state to those who are involved in the free market, uh I mean black market, suppressed by the state ups the ante tremendously.

    The reality of the most deaths, contrary to his allusion, in the prohibition is criminals killing criminals not people invading homes to steal for their addiction.
    So your a criminal apologist I guess.

    "Its not the things fault for robbing that convenience store or shooting some kid its the governments fault for making the drugs he sells illegal".

    From what I can tell your not a dumb guy. So you must just hate the .gov so much it makes u say things like that.



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  24. #24
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    So your a criminal apologist I guess.

    "Its not the things fault for robbing that convenience store or shooting some kid its the governments fault for making the drugs he sells illegal".

    From what I can tell your not a dumb guy. So you must just hate the .gov so much it makes u say things like that.



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    What tripe! Dishonest twisting of what was said.

    Your failure to approach the root cause of many of the problems is your failure alone.

    I don't apologize for "criminals", I realistically realize that folks like you are making criminals out of people. Your unconstitutional war on people disguised at a "drug war" (there can be no such thing since drugs are inanimate objects) is a major root of crime.

    Your insinuations that I would approve of theft because I don't approve of your war, is a ridiculous assumption, a logic fail, and more asshatery.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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