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Thread: Taking a trip to NC

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    Taking a trip to NC

    Hello, I'm an OCer from Michigan, and I will be traveling to NC in January It's still a few weeks out, but I figure I should start looking up what laws I will need to follow.

    I'm looking for:
    Summary of laws with citations
    Dos and Don'ts of OC
    Dos and Don'ts of CC
    Any other good information you think I may need.

    I have a Michigan CPL (Concealed Pistol License)

    Thanks.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Ah, I didn't realize that sticky would be what I was looking for. Thank you.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigt8261 View Post
    Ah, I didn't realize that sticky would be what I was looking for. Thank you.
    Your welcome! Hope you enjoy your visit.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Question, under:
    Places Where Firearm Are Prohibied: North Carolina law prohibits any person from Openly Carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol into:
    Does that mean CC is ok? In Michigan we have a list of places where CC is illegal but OC is ok.

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    It would appear that I need to be exempt from the provisions in 14-269 Carrying concealed weapons. (IE. a LEO), which I am not.

    So to me, the answer seems to be no. No form of carry would be legal for myself in the places listed in that portion of the pamphlet.

  7. #7
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigt8261 View Post
    Question, under:

    Does that mean CC is ok? In Michigan we have a list of places where CC is illegal but OC is ok.
    State parks you can CC with permit, federal buildings are off limits. Restaurants where alcohol is sold and consumed you can CC with a permit. Parades, funerals CC with a permit. Chapel Hill the firearm must be larger than 8 inches, measured from the base of the butt to the top, then adding the back of firearm to the muzzle. Most firearms are longer then 8 inches even compacts. GFSZ I am not sure, I don't think we have a court ruling determining that a out of state permit as a exception. While concealed and with a permit NC is a must notify state, only for CC though. You do not have to ID yourself for OC per US V Black. Keep in mind that in NC a permit only allows you to conceal a handgun. A fixed blade knife is a no no as well as other weapons concealed. Pocket knifes are OK, as long as they are not large, and OC of knifes is OK also. Signs have force of law in NC, with a charge of trespassing.

    If I missed anything others should chime in.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 12-30-2013 at 11:28 AM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    I guess I don't understand how that works for places where alcohol is sold and consumed


    14-269.3. Carrying weapons into assemblies and establishments where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed.

    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
    (b) This section shall not apply to the following:
    (1) A person exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14-269;
    (2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment;
    (3) A person participating in the event, if he is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event; and
    (4) A person registered or hired as a security guard by the owner, lessee, or person or organization sponsoring the event. (1977, c. 1016, s. 1; 1981, c. 412, s. 4, c. 747, s. 66; 1993, c. 539, s. 165; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c).)
    I don't see how I would be exempted (non LEO)
    14-269. Carrying concealed weapons.

    [...]

    (b) This prohibition shall not apply to the following persons:

    (1) Officers and enlisted personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States when in discharge of their official duties as such and acting under orders requiring them to carry arms and weapons;

    (2) Civil and law enforcement officers of the United States;

    (3) Officers and soldiers of the militia and the National Guard when called into actual service;

    (4) Officers of the State, or of any county, city, town, or company police agency charged with the execution of the laws of the State, when acting in the discharge of their official duties;

    (4a) Any person who is a district attorney, an assistant district attorney, or an investigator employed by the office of a district attorney and who has a concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter or considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24; provided that the person shall not carry a concealed weapon at any time while in a courtroom or while consuming alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance or while alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance remains in the person's body. The district attorney, assistant district attorney, or investigator shall secure the weapon in a locked compartment when the weapon is not on the person of the district attorney, assistant district attorney, or investigator;

    (4b) Any person who meets all of the following conditions:

    a. Is a qualified retired law enforcement officer as defined in G.S. 14-415.10.

    b. Is the holder of a concealed handgun permit in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter.

    c. Is certified by the North Carolina Criminal Justice Education and Training Standards Commission pursuant to G.S. 14-415.26;

    (4c) Detention personnel or correctional officers employed by the State or a unit of local government who park a vehicle in a space that is authorized for their use in the course of their duties may transport a firearm to the parking space and store that firearm in the vehicle parked in the parking space, provided that: (i) the firearm is in a closed compartment or container within the locked vehicle, or (ii) the firearm is in a locked container securely affixed to the vehicle;

    (5) Sworn law-enforcement officers, when off-duty, provided that an officer does not carry a concealed weapon while consuming alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance or while alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance remains in the officer's body;

    (6) State probation or parole certified officers, when off-duty, provided that an officer does not carry a concealed weapon while consuming alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance or while alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance remains in the officer's body.
    What am I missing or misinterpreting?

  9. #9
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigt8261 View Post
    I guess I don't understand how that works for places where alcohol is sold and consumed



    I don't see how I would be exempted (non LEO)


    What am I missing or misinterpreting?


    14-269. Carrying concealed weapons.

    [...]

    (b) This prohibition shall not apply to the following persons:

    (1) Officers and enlisted personnel of the Armed Forces of the United States when in discharge of their official duties as such and acting under orders requiring them to carry arms and weapons;

    (2) Civil and law enforcement officers of the United States;

    (3) Officers and soldiers of the militia and the National Guard when called into actual service;

    (4) Officers of the State, or of any county, city, town, or company police agency charged with the execution of the laws of the State, when acting in the discharge of their official duties;

    (4a) Any person who is a district attorney, an assistant district attorney, or an investigator employed by the office of a district attorney and who has a concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter or considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24; provided that the person shall not carry a concealed weapon at any time while in a courtroom or while consuming alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance or while alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance remains in the person's body. The district attorney, assistant district attorney, or investigator shall secure the weapon in a locked compartment when the weapon is not on the person of the district attorney, assistant district attorney, or investigator;

    (4b) Any person who meets all of the following conditions:

    a. Is a qualified retired law enforcement officer as defined in G.S. 14-415.10.

    b. Is the holder of a concealed handgun permit in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter.

    c. Is certified by the North Carolina Criminal Justice Education and Training Standards Commission pursuant to G.S. 14-415.26;

    (4c) Detention personnel or correctional officers employed by the State or a unit of local government who park a vehicle in a space that is authorized for their use in the course of their duties may transport a firearm to the parking space and store that firearm in the vehicle parked in the parking space, provided that: (i) the firearm is in a closed compartment or container within the locked vehicle, or (ii) the firearm is in a locked container securely affixed to the vehicle;

    (5) Sworn law-enforcement officers, when off-duty, provided that an officer does not carry a concealed weapon while consuming alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance or while alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance remains in the officer's body;

    (6) State probation or parole certified officers, when off-duty, provided that an officer does not carry a concealed weapon while consuming alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance or while alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance remains in the officer's body.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    But ...

    (4b) Any person who meets all of the following conditions:

    a. Is a qualified retired law enforcement officer as defined in G.S. 14-415.10.

    b. Is the holder of a concealed handgun permit in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter.

    c. Is certified by the North Carolina Criminal Justice Education and Training Standards Commission pursuant to G.S. 14-415.26;
    The way I read it, I don't meet all of those conditions.

  11. #11
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigt8261 View Post
    But ...



    The way I read it, I don't meet all of those conditions.
    You don't have to meet all exceptions, just one. And as you have a permit, you do.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    You don't have to meet all exceptions, just one. And as you have a permit, you do.
    Forgive me for being so persistent. Why would I not have to meet all of the conditions when the plain reading of the statute (as I'm reading it) says I do?
    Last edited by bigt8261; 12-30-2013 at 11:42 AM.

  13. #13
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigt8261 View Post
    Forgive me for being so persistent. Why would I not have to meet all of the conditions when the plain reading of the statute (as I'm reading it) says I do?
    That may be the old law, I'll have to dig. But there is no need to have a CHP if a LEO.

    This is from NCDOJ

    Other States' Permits Honored Here

    Effective December 1, 2011, North Carolina automatically recognizes concealed carry permits issued in any other state.

    Out-of-state permit holders should familiarize themselves with North Carolina’s laws.

    For example, in North Carolina, concealed handguns may not be carried:
    In law enforcement or correctional facilities such as a prison;
    In any space occupied by state or federal employees, including state and federal courthouses;
    In schools or on school grounds*;
    In areas of assemblies, parades, funerals or demonstrations**;
    In any place where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed (such as some restaurants) if the premises are posted as prohibited;
    In any area where concealed handguns are prohibited by federal law;
    In any place of business that has posted a sign banning concealed weapons on its premises;
    By any person while consuming alcohol or while under the influence of alcohol or any controlled
    substances (unless obtained legally and taken as directed by a physician).

    I thought I found it but what I found was the section for storing a handgun on educational property.

    Here it is.
    SECTION 3. G.S. 14-269.3(b) reads as rewritten:
    "(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
    (1) A person exempted from the provisions of G.S. 14-269;G.S. 14-269.
    (2) The owner or lessee of the premises or business establishment;establishment.
    (3) A person participating in the event, if he the person is carrying a gun, rifle,
    or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee, or person or organization
    sponsoring the event; andevent.
    (4) A person registered or hired as a security guard by the owner, lessee, or
    person or organization sponsoring the event.
    (5) A person carrying a handgun if the person has a valid concealed handgun
    permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter, has a
    concealed handgun permit considered valid under G.S. 14-415.24, or is
    exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to G.S. 14-415.25. This
    subdivision shall not be construed to permit a person to carry a handgun on
    any premises where the person in legal possession or control of the premises
    has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed
    handgun on the premises in accordance with G.S. 14-415.11(c)."
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 12-30-2013 at 11:58 AM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    I found the webpage where it says that. In the paragraph above that list there is a link to NC Firearm Laws. http://www.ncdoj.gov/getdoc/32344299...-gun-Laws.aspx

    On page 19 it says:
    Although a person may have a permit to carry a concealed weapon, permittees are not uthorized to carry the permitted weapon anywhere they desire. The weapon may not be carried in the following areas:
    1. Any area prohibited by N.C.G.S. 14-269.2, 14-269.3, 14-277.2, or 120-32.1. (school grounds, areas where alcohol is sold and consumed, state property, legislative buildings, and public gatherings, such as parades);
    2. Areas prohibited by G.S. 14-269.4 (certain state properties);
    3. In an area prohibited by rules adopted under G.S. 120-32.1.
    4. Any area prohibited by 18 USC 922 or any other federal law;
    5. Any law enforcement agency or correctional facility;
    6. A building housing only st ate or federal offices;
    7. An office of the state or federal government that is not located in a building exclusively occupied by the state or federal government;
    8. Any premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspi cuous notice, or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.
    Clear as mud.
    Last edited by bigt8261; 12-30-2013 at 01:14 PM.

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    also on pg 37:

    E. IS IT LAWFUL TO CARRY A WEAPON TO A BAR OR SIMILAR ESTABLISHMENT FOR PURPOSES OF PROTECTION?
    ANSWER:
    As a general rule, no. North Carolina General Statutes generally forbid a person to carry a weapon into an assembly where an admission fee has been charged, or a place where alcoholic beverages are sold and consumed. There is a limited exception for those in possession of a lawfully issued concealed handgun permit. However, even these permitees may not carry onto such a premises if a notice has been posted prohibiting such carry and they may not consume any alcohol. A more detailed discussion of these areas is contained in section III. E. of this publication.
    A more detailed discussion is in section III E. The problem is, that paragraph is referencing itself. That was section III E!!! *sigh.

  16. #16
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    howdy, what part of NC are you planning on traversing?

    normal caveat - I am not an attorney nor representing myself as one.

    for your reading pleasure I have attached the link to the NC Attorney General's 2013 tome on their perspective of NC Firearm laws. The honorable John Aldridge, retired Dep AG and someone who has worked within the AG working on Firearm concerns, did an excellent job compiling the document as it is written quite well and to be honest is what is presented from NC's DoJ to their unique population.

    http://www.ncsheriffs.org/documents/...rms%20Laws.pdf

    so instead of wading through the NC statutes, you might wish to take a gander at section III, beginning on page 11, of this document and read through it as i believe you will discern the answers to some, if not all, of your ongoing queries.

    of particular interest is section III D, Transporting weapons, beginning on page 22 as it is chock'd full of information not readily found specifically in the statutes but germane to transporting firearms within the Tarheel state. and things that you should be aware of.

    holler if you have further clarifications as you have seen WW, et al., will provide guidance to the best of our abilities.

    and depending on your destination within NC perhaps a bite to eat could be shared during your visit.

    safe sojourn

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 12-30-2013 at 03:55 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

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  17. #17
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigt8261 View Post
    also on pg 37:

    A more detailed discussion is in section III E. The problem is, that paragraph is referencing itself. That was section III E!!! *sigh.
    no, you are lost in the document... you are in section VIII commonly asked questions verses section III E which is above beginning on page 23.!

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 12-30-2013 at 04:02 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    howdy, what part of NC are you planning on traversing?

    normal caveat - I am not an attorney nor representing myself as one.

    for your reading pleasure I have attached the link to the NC Attorney General's 2013 tome on their perspective of NC Firearm laws. The honorable John Aldridge, retired Dep AG and someone who has worked within the AG working on Firearm concerns, did an excellent job compiling the document as it is written quite well and to be honest is what is presented from NC's DoJ to their unique population.

    http://www.ncsheriffs.org/documents/...rms%20Laws.pdf

    so instead of wading through the NC statutes, you might wish to take a gander at section III, beginning on page 11, of this document and read through it as i believe you will discern the answers to some, if not all, of your ongoing queries.

    of particular interest is section III D, Transporting weapons, beginning on page 22 as it is chock'd full of information not readily found specifically in the statutes but germane to transporting firearms within the Tarheel state. and things that you should be aware of.

    holler if you have further clarifications as you have seen WW, et al., will provide guidance to the best of our abilities.

    and depending on your destination within NC perhaps a bite to eat could be shared during your visit.

    safe sojourn

    ipse
    That's the same link I posted. Thanks for pointing out section III D.

    OK, I think I figured out the alcohol thing. I found the correct section III E, which included an extra piece that the statute posted above (14-269.3 as cited) does not include.

    The following MAY carry a firearm
    d. A person carrying a handgun if the person has a valid concealed handgun permit or is exempt from obtaining a permit pursuant to G.S. 14-415.25. Note, however, this allowance does not allow a person to carry a handgun on any premises where the person in legal possession or control has posted a conspicuous notice prohibiting the carrying of a concealed handgun on the premises.
    It looks like this is from H937 which was signed in August, but the changes have not made their way to the gov's version posted online that I cited above.

    H937 as signed http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2013/B...PDF/H937v6.pdf

    Bottom line, OK to carry where alcohol is served and consumed. Glad I finally got that sorted out. Sorry for the hassle.

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    We will be in the Pilot Mountain area north of Winston-Salem.

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    This site will give all the states.....click on NC or any of the others for information. HANDGUNLAW

    I will be in Pilot Mtn. in April. Spent a lot of time in GR and SW MI.

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    Bear in mind that the signs are not always as conspicuous as they should be, IMO.

    I was in and out of the Greensboro Sportsplex several times recently before I noticed that there was actually a firearms-related sign on the front door.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrMark View Post
    Bear in mind that the signs are not always as conspicuous as they should be, IMO.

    I was in and out of the Greensboro Sportsplex several times recently before I noticed that there was actually a firearms-related sign on the front door.
    The statute says "conspicuous notice", is there any standard to that? If the sign was not conspicuous, is there any history of carriers being charged?

    In Michigan, signs do not hold weight of law, however you can still be trespassed, but they will need to be able to prove that it's likely you saw the sign if they want to skip your warning.

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