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Thread: I think we need to reconsider 'cruel and unusual punishment'.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    I think we need to reconsider 'cruel and unusual punishment'.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ngo-money.html

    I want to see this shooter of the 76 y.o. grandma ripped apart by rabid weasels. Seriously. Entombed with scarab beetles. We need to start using more horrific punishments on these predators.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ngo-money.html

    I want to see this shooter of the 76 y.o. grandma ripped apart by rabid weasels. Seriously. Entombed with scarab beetles. We need to start using more horrific punishments on these predators.

    Seriously? Rabid weasels and scarab beetles is the best you've got?

    Ever hear of the Roman orator Cicero? He made his name first as a legal advocate--what we today call a lawyer. In the case that made his name, a man was framed for killing his father. Know what penalty Cicero was trying to avoid for his client? At that time the Roman penalty for patricide was to be sewn naked into a sack with a dog, snake, monkey, and some weights, and thrown into the Tiber to drown.

    How about the English penalty for high treason. Laid out by the same king that butchered Wiliam Wallace. Hanged by the neck until half-dead. Cut down, privy parts (genitals) cut off, disemboweled and the bowels burnt in front of the dying man, then beheaded.

    Oh, and let's not forget Queen Mary Tudor's favorite--burning. "The fires of Smithfield" claimed something on the order of 270 lives during her reign.

    Go and have a look at some of the execution videos out of Iran. They don't drop hang them. They choke-hang them. Some of the condemned spin, twist, arch their backs, and kick.

    We spent the better part of 2,000 years as a culture trying to move away from that stuff. What do you say we leave that stuff in the past?
    Last edited by Citizen; 12-30-2013 at 07:32 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Sorry, but did you ever hear of a older, dusty, parchment document called the US CONSTITUTION. It prohibits things like this, specifically "cruel and unusual punishments"

    As Reprehensible a BG actions are they STILL have CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTIONS and MUST be afforded DUE PROCESS.

    To deprive even the most reprehensible of these rights is to deprive EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US THESE SAME RIGHTS!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Sorry, but did you ever hear of a older, dusty, parchment document called the US CONSTITUTION. It prohibits things like this, specifically "cruel and unusual punishments"

    As Reprehensible a BG actions are they STILL have CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTIONS and MUST be afforded DUE PROCESS.

    To deprive even the most reprehensible of these rights is to deprive EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US THESE SAME RIGHTS!
    OP is asking for use to consider changing the constitution ... maybe for certain cases like this...

    Another bingo related death ... they should outlaw bingo ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    OP is asking for use to consider changing the constitution ... maybe for certain cases like this...

    Another bingo related death ... they should outlaw bingo ...
    And I am telling him not only "NO" but NO WAY IN HELL!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    And I am telling him not only "NO" but NO WAY IN HELL!
    Listen for it....we have a BINGO! Step up and claim your prize.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Amazing that nobody seems to have followed this story a little bit deeper. There are suggestions that Granny was not quite as pure as the driven snow - as a matter of fact some have suggested that the yellow snow was purer than she was.

    That does not absolve the jerks who attacked her for her BINGO money.

    And as for figuring out how to inflict significant pain and suffering on a miscreant, I suggest that you bloodthirsty amateur sadists start studying the masters. The phrase "You will wish you could die" is a real possibility, but not if you go about trying out the suggestions offered so far. I have a notebook and a toolkit in an atache case.

    And as for inflicting the maximum pain and suffering while staying within the bounds of the Constitutional prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment I offer you administrative segregation. Go read what Amnesty International and ACLU have to say against it.

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Sorry, but did you ever hear of a older, dusty, parchment document called the US CONSTITUTION. It prohibits things like this, specifically "cruel and unusual punishments"

    As Reprehensible a BG actions are they STILL have CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTIONS and MUST be afforded DUE PROCESS.

    To deprive even the most reprehensible of these rights is to deprive EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US THESE SAME RIGHTS!

    Its kinda funny how things have evolved.

    There was a big mutiny in the British navy in the 1700's. Half the port took over their ships or something. They were protesting conditions on board ships at sea. They demanded more space for hammocks (21" or something ridiculously small) was the standard. Better food or grog (rum watered down with water) or something. And, a few other things. But, something they completely omitted from their demands was an end to flogging. Apparently His Majesty's sailors considered flogging just and proper.

    Go figure.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Its kinda funny how things have evolved.

    There was a big mutiny in the British navy in the 1700's. Half the port took over their ships or something. They were protesting conditions on board ships at sea. They demanded more space for hammocks (21" or something ridiculously small) was the standard. Better food or grog (rum watered down with water) or something. And, a few other things. But, something they completely omitted from their demands was an end to flogging. Apparently His Majesty's sailors considered flogging just and proper.

    Go figure.
    Not to derail the thread but what is your understanding of a concept some have called the "Overton Window" and how it would apply to your mutiny history lesson?
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Sorry, but did you ever hear of a older, dusty, parchment document called the US CONSTITUTION. It prohibits things like this, specifically "cruel and unusual punishments"

    As Reprehensible a BG actions are they STILL have CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTIONS and MUST be afforded DUE PROCESS.

    To deprive even the most reprehensible of these rights is to deprive EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US THESE SAME RIGHTS!
    It's prohibits a punishment that is cruel AND unusual.

    Death is not unusual.

    So, if the usual death penalty was being eaten alive by fire ants then it fixes the cruel AND unusual problem.

    Yes, the person does need a proper trial, but if/when found guilty then the punishment can be executed.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    It's prohibits a punishment that is cruel AND unusual.

    Death is not unusual.

    So, if the usual death penalty was being eaten alive by fire ants then it fixes the cruel AND unusual problem.

    Yes, the person does need a proper trial, but if/when found guilty then the punishment can be executed.
    You failed to label the above as SARCASM.... Or rather, I hope your FORGOT to label it as sarcasm.

    It isn't the penalty of death that I oppose but the vindictive, malicious, depraved manner in which you suggest the goal of achieving death is achieved.
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 12-31-2013 at 01:45 AM.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    A thought ... isn't death unusual from an individual's perspective? After all, it usually only happens once so its not an everyday occurrence....

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    A thought ... isn't death unusual from an individual's perspective? After all, it usually only happens once so its not an everyday occurrence....
    In the context of mortality.... since all are mortal, ALL WILL DIE. And THIS make death a very USUAL occurrence among mortals.
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 12-31-2013 at 02:48 AM.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    In the context of mortality.... since all are mortal, ALL WILL DIE. And THIS make death a very USUAL occurrence among mortals.
    i plan on living until the Cubs win the WS .... so, forever....

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Just to stir the pot - nobody has introduced cruel and usual punishment, or maybe more simply "usual punishment."
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Jeeze what about 'rabid weasels' isn't obvious hyperbole? Nobody's advocating changing the freaking Constitution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    In the context of mortality.... since all are mortal, ALL WILL DIE. And THIS make death a very USUAL occurrence among mortals.
    Actually, empirically speaking, death is a 50/50 proposition. Over half the people who have ever lived on the face of the Earth are alive today and have never died. Therefore, since only about half the people who have ever lived have died, we can conclude from this sample, that there is a 50/50 chance that you will never die.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Actually, empirically speaking, death is a 50/50 proposition. Over half the people who have ever lived on the face of the Earth are alive today and have never died. Therefore, since only about half the people who have ever lived have died, we can conclude from this sample, that there is a 50/50 chance that you will never die.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithonus_(The_X-Files)

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Wouldn't life itself be more unusual?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Actually, empirically speaking, death is a 50/50 proposition. Over half the people who have ever lived on the face of the Earth are alive today and have never died. Therefore, since only about half the people who have ever lived have died, we can conclude from this sample, that there is a 50/50 chance that you will never die.
    Are you suggesting this 50%(to use your number) won't ever die or just haven't died YET?
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Actually, empirically speaking, death is a 50/50 proposition. Over half the people who have ever lived on the face of the Earth are alive today and have never died. Therefore, since only about half the people who have ever lived have died, we can conclude from this sample, that there is a 50/50 chance that you will never die.
    As Mr Spock was wont to say, "That is illogical."


    • Estimate on number of people that have ever lived as of 2011: 107 billion
    • Estimate on number of people alive as of 2011: 7 billion

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_p...ave_ever_lived

    That computes to just over 6.54% by my math - that's a loong way from 50%, we think.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Just to stir the pot - nobody has introduced cruel and usual punishment, or maybe more simply "usual punishment."
    I was pointing that out. That if the punishment becomes usual then it's no longer cruel AND unusual.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    cruel

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ngo-money.html

    I want to see this shooter of the 76 y.o. grandma ripped apart by rabid weasels. Seriously. Entombed with scarab beetles. We need to start using more horrific punishments on these predators.
    We could just let him spend some time with my mother in law. I think he would off him self then

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    I think the firing squad would be perfect. Utah did it within the last decade...we give someone 3 choices, shot, hung or electrocuted. Makes life simple!!

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