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  1. #1
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    What would you do?

    I know there has been a lot of talk about roadblocks. Frankly, I haven't been able to keep up with the legality of it all. All I know is that I just read an article about 'no refusal' roadblocks being set up in my state, potentially my area. I can't see how they can possibly be legal.

    Essentially, they are saying that they will set up these roadblocks, and refusal to take their tests will absolutely not be tolerated. Any attempted refusal will result in an on-call judge being called, a warrant being issued for a blood draw, and an on-site nurse drawing your blood without your consent or cooperation. So not only do they need no PC or RAS to stop you, or force you to take a test, but they can now actually issue warrants without any suspicion of a crime being committed, and force you to undergo medical procedures in order to literally fish in the blood of innocent American's for evidence to use against them.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Regular Member Super6O's Avatar
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    I saw no tolerance weekend signs in DFW. Sounds like an overstep to me but I know very little about Texas law.


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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    I know there has been a lot of talk about roadblocks. Frankly, I haven't been able to keep up with the legality of it all. All I know is that I just read an article about 'no refusal' roadblocks being set up in my state, potentially my area. I can't see how they can possibly be legal.

    Essentially, they are saying that they will set up these roadblocks, and refusal to take their tests will absolutely not be tolerated. Any attempted refusal will result in an on-call judge being called, a warrant being issued for a blood draw, and an on-site nurse drawing your blood without your consent or cooperation. So not only do they need no PC or RAS to stop you, or force you to take a test, but they can now actually issue warrants without any suspicion of a crime being committed, and force you to undergo medical procedures in order to literally fish in the blood of innocent American's for evidence to use against them.
    I'd look into the report, first. Who said what exactly--that sort of thing. First find out if there are wild exaggerations. Or, some idiot who doesn't know the law writing the story.

    If it looks legit, then call the ACLU to put a stop to it. A nice court injunction would do the trick. Followed up by ridicule of the co-conspirators in the press. Also, you could write the various driver advocacy groups in your area. AAA. Those sorts of folks.
    Last edited by Citizen; 12-30-2013 at 07:40 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  4. #4
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I'd look into the report, first. Who said what exactly--that sort of thing. First find out if there are wild exaggerations. Or, some idiot who doesn't know the law writing the story.

    If it looks legit, then call the ACLU to put a stop to it. A nice court injunction would do the trick. Followed up by ridicule of the co-conspirators in the press. Also, you could write the various driver advocacy groups in your area. AAA. Those sorts of folks.
    This is the article I'm reading... Check out the quote by the Tarrant County DA... http://keranews.org/post/hoping-crac...usal-operation

    “If you don’t consent to giving a sample of breath or blood, a search warrant will be obtained and one will be taken from you anyways," says Richard Alpert with the Tarrant County District Attorney's office. “And the program’s designed to help deter people from testing us on that point and encourage people not to drive while intoxicated."

    How interesting that the "and encourage people not to drive while intoxicated" is just sort of tacked on to the end of a "we will have our way with you, *not sure why this word isn't filtered*" type statement. We'll get our sample anyway.

    The paragraph after that quote mentions the nurses being handy to draw blood.

    To be honest, I'm pretty upset about this.

    Based on the content of the article, do you think I should contact the organizations you mentioned?

    Edit: I messed up on the blood draw and warrant correlation. The article would seem to suggest that a warrant might be made for a breath test or a blood draw, not necessarily a blood draw automatically.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 12-30-2013 at 08:22 PM.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Often the battle is not on the side of the road but in the courthouse. At least for the moment.

    Have at least one audio recorder running when you leave the house. "One is none, two is one" is worth considering, as is additional video recording capability. For under $100 you can outfit yourself quite nicely.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Jeff. State;2020432]--edited by Moderator--/QUOTE]

    That would mean that person shooting at a nurse from hundreds of yards away is a murderer.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 01-02-2014 at 09:10 AM. Reason: Rule #15
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

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    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    This is the article I'm reading... Check out the quote by the Tarrant County DA... http://keranews.org/post/hoping-crac...usal-operation

    “If you don’t consent to giving a sample of breath or blood, a search warrant will be obtained and one will be taken from you anyways," says Richard Alpert with the Tarrant County District Attorney's office. “And the program’s designed to help deter people from testing us on that point and encourage people not to drive while intoxicated."

    How interesting that the "and encourage people not to drive while intoxicated" is just sort of tacked on to the end of a "we will have our way with you, *not sure why this word isn't filtered*" type statement. We'll get our sample anyway.

    The paragraph after that quote mentions the nurses being handy to draw blood.

    To be honest, I'm pretty upset about this.

    Based on the content of the article, do you think I should contact the organizations you mentioned?

    Edit: I messed up on the blood draw and warrant correlation. The article would seem to suggest that a warrant might be made for a breath test or a blood draw, not necessarily a blood draw automatically.
    Good point. Its not really consensual if a refusal results in a warrant.

    Now, what kind of magistrate is going to accept a refusal (exercising a right) as probable cause to issue a warrant?

    It just doesn't add up.
    Last edited by Citizen; 12-30-2013 at 11:56 PM.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    That would mean that person shooting at a nurse from hundreds of yards away is a murderer.
    Or just a bad shot .... as opposed to an excellent one ..

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    People have died (embolism) from blood draws. Nurses are the worst phlebotomists I've ever encountered.

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    I deferred my comment, on what I would do, from earlier, while the thread was still focussed, until now when it has expanded a bit to more general 4A abuses.

    What I did is move away from population centers.

    An interesting map would correlate population density with rights violation density, perhaps people per square mile with rights violations per 100,000.

    My county does not have 30,000 souls and my township has half the population density of the county and zero notable or reportable crime (primarily under-age drinking with an occasional fist-fight). We have an OIC and a patrolman resident, half of whom are particularly unpleasant and commonly shunned.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    JT, are we to believe the cops believe their own propaganda? Going to prison, having their licenses confiscated, KILLING PEOPLE with their cars has not been a deterrent to DUI. It's not like they're a brain-trust or able to understand consequences.

    These stops are just to justify their own 'over-entitlement'. Follow the money - are they getting kick-backs from the Feds?

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I deferred my comment, on what I would do, from earlier, while the thread was still focussed, until now when it has expanded a bit to more general 4A abuses.

    What I did is move away from population centers.

    An interesting map would correlate population density with rights violation density, perhaps people per square mile with rights violations per 100,000.

    My county does not have 30,000 souls and my township has half the population density of the county and zero notable or reportable crime (primarily under-age drinking with an occasional fist-fight). We have an OIC and a patrolman resident, half of whom are particularly unpleasant and commonly shunned.
    Rights abuses at the hands of state agents know no bounds, or boundaries. But, they do tend to puddle together in certain locations.

  13. #13
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    Invoke all your rights... Request an attorney to be present..

    My .02

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    JT, are we to believe the cops believe their own propaganda? Going to prison, having their licenses confiscated, KILLING PEOPLE with their cars has not been a deterrent to DUI. It's not like they're a brain-trust or able to understand consequences.

    These stops are just to justify their own 'over-entitlement'. Follow the money - are they getting kick-backs from the Feds?
    Nearly every article I've read lately that's talking about a PD setting up a roadblock says that they've received some sort of grant to help pay for it. A few hundred thousand for a department to do a a few nights of roadblocking? Yeah, that sounds like some people are getting some pretty hefty Christmans/newyears bonuses.

    I wonder if that money comes with instructions, and that's part of the problem that people have at the roadblocks.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    People have died (embolism) from blood draws. Nurses are the worst phlebotomists I've ever encountered.
    This is Truth!! I once had a "nurse" draw blood. The syringe fell apart, leaving blood squirting out of the needle while she scrambled on the floor to collect the other pieces

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    ...... "One is none, two is one" is worth considering, as is additional video recording capability......
    This is Truth!
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    If this is federally funded then it is not about safety, it is about normalizing road blocks to the public. DUI arrest should be made on solid police work, not lazy Nazi tactics such as this. If a officer knows what they are doing they can make several DUI arrests a night without invading rights, and acting like goons.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Good point. Its not really consensual if a refusal results in a warrant.

    Now, what kind of magistrate is going to accept a refusal (exercising a right) as probable cause to issue a warrant?

    It just doesn't add up.
    Hi Citizen

    The traffic court judge will issue the warrant... They are all in this together..

    The probable cause is the citizens refusal, hence, if you have nothing to hide why Refuse... that is the mentality of the tyrants conducting these nazi roadblocks...

    I would suggest doing this when trapped in a roadblock. Stay in the vehicle..

    1- do not show your DL or owners registration.( by doing so you are consenting to the roadblock)..
    2- Inform the Nazi tyrant that you do not consent to being detained.
    3- Ask if your free to be on your way. If no,
    4- Request counsel.
    5- Remain silent.

    I have had positive results with my approach however yours may very well vary. One can never predict with certainty how a tyrant will act when his/her authority is challenged.

    PLEASE DO NOT DRINK AND DRIVE...

    My .02

    Best regards

    CCJ
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    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    If this is federally funded then it is not about safety, it is about normalizing road blocks to the public. DUI arrest should be made on solid police work, not lazy Nazi tactics such as this. If a officer knows what they are doing they can make several DUI arrests a night without invading rights, and acting like goons.
    Almost all are federally funded ... pull over and start your FOIA requests !! Hundreds at one roadblock ...

  20. #20
    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    If this is federally funded then it is not about safety, it is about normalizing road blocks to the public. DUI arrest should be made on solid police work, not lazy Nazi tactics such as this. If a officer knows what they are doing they can make several DUI arrests a night without invading rights, and acting like goons.
    Here's an example of NHTSA funding checkpoints:

    http://safetrec.berkeley.edu/content...-grant-program

    "For Combination DUI/DL Checkpoints, departments should: 1) inform the public (via the press release) that driver licenses will be checked and 2) conduct DUI/DL checkpoint operations with signs (reading, “DUI/Driver License Checkpoint Ahead”)."

    Holy moly. Some checkpoints are to check drivers licenses, meaning they run you for warrants, etc.
    You stop for a checkpoint and end up in jail for "failure to appear" at collection agency's small claims court attempt to collect on a medical debt your insurance should have covered but dodged.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    Here's an example of NHTSA funding checkpoints:

    http://safetrec.berkeley.edu/content...-grant-program

    "For Combination DUI/DL Checkpoints, departments should: 1) inform the public (via the press release) that driver licenses will be checked and 2) conduct DUI/DL checkpoint operations with signs (reading, “DUI/Driver License Checkpoint Ahead”)."

    Holy moly. Some checkpoints are to check drivers licenses, meaning they run you for warrants, etc.
    You stop for a checkpoint and end up in jail for "failure to appear" at collection agency's small claims court attempt to collect on a medical debt your insurance should have covered but dodged.
    Being forced to hand over a form of ID in that instance sounds like a forced violation of the 5th.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  22. #22
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    What would I do? I wouldn't allow a search nor answer questions. If they kidnap me and take my blood again, so be it, it's just more evidence against them.

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTHunter View Post
    Stealthy - not just in your state. The local TV news stations in St. Louis, MO were all harping on that fact with interviews with the St. Louis Chief. He was touting on how this would "make driving safer" by getting more drunk drivers off the road. Needless to say, they all ignored how this violates the Fourth Amendment.

    Amendment IV
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
    Hi JTH

    I concur-- I would also argue that a citizens 5th A right is violated. Also DUI cases generally do not afford a citizen the right to a trial by jury.
    Therefore I believe a clear violation of a citizens 7thA... If a citizen is convicted of a DUI the financial ramifications far exceed the $20.00 requirement needed to be tried by a jury, however, I have never seen a jury seating in on a DUI case... So where is the citizens right to be tried by a jury of his/her peers and not just some kangaroo court judge, a judge that is employed by the same entity as the police officer and prosecutor.. So I contend that these nazi roadblocks violate, the 4th 5th and 7th Amendments....

    My .02

    Thank you and best regards.

    CCJ
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

  24. #24
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by countryclubjoe View Post
    Hi JTH

    I concur-- I would also argue that a citizens 5th A right is violated. Also DUI cases generally do not afford a citizen the right to a trial by jury.
    Therefore I believe a clear violation of a citizens 7thA... If a citizen is convicted of a DUI the financial ramifications far exceed the $20.00 requirement needed to be tried by a jury, however, I have never seen a jury seating in on a DUI case... So where is the citizens right to be tried by a jury of his/her peers and not just some kangaroo court judge, a judge that is employed by the same entity as the police officer and prosecutor.. So I contend that these nazi roadblocks violate, the 4th 5th and 7th Amendments....

    My .02

    Thank you and best regards.

    CCJ
    Ccj,

    Not sure if your talking state specific or not but we routinely have to testify in front of a jury for DUI. Just had one a few weeks ago.

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Ccj,

    Not sure if your talking state specific or not but we routinely have to testify in front of a jury for DUI. Just had one a few weeks ago.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    Hi primus

    No jury trial in NJ for a DUI, hence my opinion that the whole dui process is unconstitutional...

    A citizen suspected of a DUI is required to furnish evidence against him/her self, IE, blood, urine, breath
    A refusal to furnish evidence by the citizens results in far more sever penalties then simply complying.... UNCONSTITUTIONAL..?

    Police are not required to Mirandize a citizen until after he/she is charged, hence citizen is interrogated on the side of the road and not afforded legal counsel... UNCONSTITUTIONAL ?

    I contend that a person suspected of murder is afforded more legal rights then a person suspected of DUI...

    Thank you and best regards.

    CCJ
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

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