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Thread: My carry style, recently

  1. #1
    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    My carry style, recently

    Lately, I don't so much choose whether to carry open or concealed as I decide what's more comfortable with the shirt I'm wearing. If it would be awkward to tuck the shirt inside the grip of the PPQ, I drape it over; otherwise, I carry openly. At no time, however, do I give two rat sh'ts about whether it's obvious that I'm carrying. So if I'm wearing a shirt that is too long comfortably to tuck inside the grip, I drape it over, and even if it's a less bulky shirt and it's completely obvious I have something decidedly non-organic underneath, I really don't care. I don't have to care. So I don't.

    Occasionally I feel like I should open carry, and that I should wear shirts that make that more convenient. Then I remember that I don't have to care. Carrying is my right. I don't need to make a statement, and I don't need to coddle the feelings of pansies. The only purpose is to carry, because I choose to. If someone knows I'm carrying, great! That furthers normalization. But I am under no obligation to go to any length to make it obvious that I'm carrying. I simply do what's most convenient and comfortable for me at that time, and all I care about is that I'm carrying.

    I do have a drop/offset extension for my BladeTech paddle, and I've been thinking about adding that on, since in this weather it would let me open carry comfortably more often. It's also less comfortable to sit down while it's on, so I haven't added it on yet. The great thing is that there's absolutely no urgency in the decision. I don't have to care. I'm carrying, and that's all I care about.

    Man, I love Washington's gun laws. F'Texas.

  2. #2
    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    Personally I do not care if someone open carries or conceals what matters most to me is that people carry. Why do I open carry? A lot of reasons but one of the biggest reasons is comfort. Carrying a gun is not effective unless it is comfortable otherwise it turns into a chore. A very big reason why I open carry is because of its comfort. I know my rights and what is and is not legal. In six years I have had some mixed interactions but never a bad day. If it offends someone too bad. Every time I see someone walking down the street wearing a Obama shirt or a pot shirt I get offend but I leave them alone. Why because it is their right to wear what ever shirt they want regardless of my views. And it is my legal right to openly and proudly carry my firearm
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

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    Regular Member Dave in Edmonds's Avatar
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    Glad you're enjoying the new digs. We still need to hook up.

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    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    I am going to assume then you are from Texas? Of all the states that do not allow open carry Texas always surprised me. I would think for heat reasons alone trying to always cover up would get difficult
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

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    I don't have to care.
    Wow, isn't freedom wonderful??? Do what seems right/safe/practical/doable for you, and carry on!

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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fire suppressor View Post
    Personally I do not care if someone open carries or conceals what matters most to me is that people carry. Why do I open carry? A lot of reasons but one of the biggest reasons is comfort. Carrying a gun is not effective unless it is comfortable otherwise it turns into a chore. A very big reason why I open carry is because of its comfort. I know my rights and what is and is not legal. In six years I have had some mixed interactions but never a bad day. If it offends someone too bad. Every time I see someone walking down the street wearing a Obama shirt or a pot shirt I get offend but I leave them alone. Why because it is their right to wear what ever shirt they want regardless of my views. And it is my legal right to openly and proudly carry my firearm
    I have learned that it's so much easier to pen carry then it is to conceal carry. If you carry concealed and are worrying about carrying concealed, you constantly have to make sure that your firearm is concealed. If you carry openly and are legally allowed to carry concealed, you simply carry openly and if the firearm accidentally becomes concealed, who cares? lol
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Carrying as you see fit, is what it's all about.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Carrying as you see fit, is what it's all about.
    Yes! The beautiful thing about Washington State, with absolutely no requirement to conceal, is you don't have to worry about printing, or letting your concealment garment get out of the way, or...

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    Campaign Veteran OlGutshotWilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    I have learned that it's so much easier to pen carry then it is to conceal carry. If you carry concealed and are worrying about carrying concealed, you constantly have to make sure that your firearm is concealed. If you carry openly and are legally allowed to carry concealed, you simply carry openly and if the firearm accidentally becomes concealed, who cares? lol
    Why do you have to worry or make sure it is concealed?

    If you are carrying concealed and it accidentally becomes open, then it is also perfectly legal and who cares?
    THE SECOND AMENDMENT: Washington didn't use his right to free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Government is not reason; it is not eloquent -- it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
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    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlGutshotWilly View Post
    Why do you have to worry or make sure it is concealed?

    If you are carrying concealed and it accidentally becomes open, then it is also perfectly legal and who cares?
    I have to worry because of such places that either don't allow open carry such as my former and current college or places that don't allow firearms or weapons even though it's not illegal to carry such things such as hospitals.
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

    There are two constants when dealing with liberals:
    1) Liberals never quit until they are satisfied.
    2) Liberals are never satisfied.

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    Campaign Veteran OlGutshotWilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    I have to worry because of such places that either don't allow open carry such as my former and current college or places that don't allow firearms or weapons even though it's not illegal to carry such things such as hospitals.
    Grim,
    I appreciate and understand what you are saying about the places that you carry concealed within because you have to.

    But the way your original statement was written, gave the impression that you were commenting on "carry" in general, in that if your weapon accidentally became covered, it was legal if you had your CPL, but that if concealed one could face repercussions if it was accidentally revealed.

    One of the nice things about WA state, is that we are not penalized for "printing" or accidentally letting our concealed gun become openly visible accidentally.

    Cheers.
    THE SECOND AMENDMENT: Washington didn't use his right to free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Government is not reason; it is not eloquent -- it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
    --George Washington,
    first U.S. president

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    Regular Member Coyote_VS_ACME's Avatar
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    I have a question and it will drift OT a bit, but the convo here makes a good jump point to ask.

    I have two co workers that are gun nuts (meant in a good way), that argued with me that if you have a concealed permit, you are forbidden from carrying open. I know this is not the case but lack the panache to make them understand this.

  13. #13
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Wowwie!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote_VS_ACME View Post
    I have a question and it will drift OT a bit, but the convo here makes a good jump point to ask.

    I have two co workers that are gun nuts (meant in a good way), that argued with me that if you have a concealed permit, you are forbidden from carrying open. I know this is not the case but lack the panache to make them understand this.
    that is the oldest BS in the book...

    bet they learned that piece of the LAW by asking a COP!!

    what do you do if you accidentally forget your wallet and CPL at home?
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  14. #14
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Ask them if they have drivers licences. If so, are not allowed to walk anymore?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  15. #15
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    And,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Ask them if they have drivers licences. If so, are not allowed to walk anymore?

    ask them if they have a pilots license ?????

    soooo now they cant neither walk,, nor can they drive anymore too....

    it is terrible,,, I have a CPL, so cant OC now..
    I have a drivers license,,, so cant walk anywhere...
    And a pilots license,,, so cant drive anywhere....

    Ever try to fly to the Safeway,,, the Gfc????
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  16. #16
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    No, in WA there is nothing in the law that allows a sheriff to modify CPL requirements and nothing that mandates concealed carry.

    Remind them that 49/50 states and the federal government follow English law tradition, laws forbid acts, not allow them. If no law exists regarding CPLs forbidding open carry then it is by definition legal.

    The only way that idea would even be true is if you lived in a may issue state that allowed open carry w/o maybe then the sheriff could revoke of refuse to renew your license if you open carried... Delaware I think is the only state that meets this criteria...
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  17. #17
    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    Right vs Privlege

    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote_VS_ACME View Post
    I have a question and it will drift OT a bit, but the convo here makes a good jump point to ask.

    I have two co workers that are gun nuts (meant in a good way), that argued with me that if you have a concealed permit, you are forbidden from carrying open. I know this is not the case but lack the panache to make them understand this.
    It is simple really, one is a right and the other is a privlege. Your right to open carry cannot be taken away because you paid for the privlege of a CPL. A CPL doesn not abrogate your right to open carry.

    SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.

    Read through RCW 9.41.50 Carrying Firearms. Consider the RCW to mean unless it is expressly prohibited by law, it is legal.
    Be sure to read the exceptions as well; you should be able to get a lively conversation going with exception #8..

    ~Whitney
    The problem with America is stupidity.
    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

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    Good answers to far to Coyote's question (and svg's made me LOL!) Let me try my hand:

    If you read the RCW's carefully, you will find that concealed carry is prohibited unless you have a CPL, but not a single word requiring concealment anywhere in the entire RCW.

    Indeed the term "Concealed Pistol License", though it appears in the law so it's the term we have to use, is a bit of a misnomer. It should really be called and Enhanced Pistol Permit, or something like that, as it allows the permit-holder to:

    1) Carry a loaded handgun in a concealed manner (though again, the holder is NEVER required to conceal),

    2) Have a loaded handgun in/on a vehicle,

    3) be exempt from municipality bans on carry in a municipality-operated stadium or convention center under RCW 9.41.300(2)(b),

    and

    4) be exempt from the 5-day hold on delivery when purchasing hanguns (RCW 9.41.090).

    Did I miss any?

    There's quite a number of people here on OCDO whose default carry mode is to open-carry and who obtained a CPL only to enable #2 from my list above.

  19. #19
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    No, in WA there is nothing in the law that allows a sheriff to modify CPL requirements and nothing that mandates concealed carry.

    Remind them that 49/50 states and the federal government follow English law tradition, laws forbid acts, not allow them. If no law exists regarding CPLs forbidding open carry then it is by definition legal.

    The only way that idea would even be true is if you lived in a may issue state that allowed open carry w/o maybe then the sheriff could revoke of refuse to renew your license if you open carried... Delaware I think is the only state that meets this criteria...
    +1 to the reference of common law!
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  20. #20
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kparker View Post
    Good answers to far to Coyote's question (and svg's made me LOL!) Let me try my hand:

    If you read the RCW's carefully, you will find that concealed carry is prohibited unless you have a CPL, but not a single word requiring concealment anywhere in the entire RCW.

    Indeed the term "Concealed Pistol License", though it appears in the law so it's the term we have to use, is a bit of a misnomer. It should really be called and Enhanced Pistol Permit, or something like that, as it allows the permit-holder to:

    1) Carry a loaded handgun in a concealed manner (though again, the holder is NEVER required to conceal),

    2) Have a loaded handgun in/on a vehicle,

    3) be exempt from municipality bans on carry in a municipality-operated stadium or convention center under RCW 9.41.300(2)(b),

    and

    4) be exempt from the 5-day hold on delivery when purchasing hanguns (RCW 9.41.090).

    Did I miss any?

    There's quite a number of people here on OCDO whose default carry mode is to open-carry and who obtained a CPL only to enable #2 from my list above.
    #2 is a good name for it.....

    and pick up kids at school was my other reason....otherwise the state could go F itself.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  21. #21
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    SVG,

    OK, picking up kids at school is #5 -- RCW 9.41.280 (3)(e) -- I guess I missed it because if you're really wanting to carry a useful defensive weapon in your car, you already have to have a CPL from the moment you sit down behind the wheel.

    Plus, I'd argue (*here* that is, I'm volunteering to be a test case!) that (3)(f) ("... while conducting legitimate business at the school") covers you for the presence of the weapon anyway, though not for having it loaded in the vehicle.

    Overall, 9.41.280 is one of the worst spaghetti-code laws I've ever seen. :-(

  22. #22
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Yea the spegettyness of it is why number 5 is tricky.

    Before I got my CPL, I'd carry Israeli style, not ideal but didn't need a permission slip.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  23. #23
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    The only thing about WA law on Guns that bugs me is some of the ambiguous .060 exceptions seemingly incongruent with the states prohibition on concealed carry... For example

    (6) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting, when those members are at or are going to or from their places of target practice;
    I actually used this one to carry a handgun several times before turning 21 being a GSSF member, I used it while openly carrying a glock to glock matches in Bremerton, like twice.....

    (5) Regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive pistols from the United States or from this state
    I always wondered if my membership card to a CMP compliant club would double as a CPL in this case.... I considered it while waiting for my CPL (carry loaded openly in car) but decided I'd rather not be a test case.....
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  24. #24
    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    No, in WA there is nothing in the law that allows a sheriff to modify CPL requirements and nothing that mandates concealed carry.

    Remind them that 49/50 states and the federal government follow English law tradition, laws forbid acts, not allow them. If no law exists regarding CPLs forbidding open carry then it is by definition legal.

    The only way that idea would even be true is if you lived in a may issue state that allowed open carry w/o maybe then the sheriff could revoke of refuse to renew your license if you open carried... Delaware I think is the only state that meets this criteria...
    Alabama is may issue also. Some sheriffs don't like OC and will revoke if you try it.

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