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Another case of no-touch brandishing

SouthernBoy

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May 12, 2007
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5,837
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Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
Question if I might.

What was the outcome of the member who was charged with brandishing while in his vehicle and seen moving his gun by a school bus driver. Sorry I don't know more details but I am curious as to where this happened and how it played out for him.
 

peter nap

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Valhalla
Question if I might.

What was the outcome of the member who was charged with brandishing while in his vehicle and seen moving his gun by a school bus driver. Sorry I don't know more details but I am curious as to where this happened and how it played out for him.

SB, unfortunately he was convicted in GD Court where the judge refused to look or listen to the evidence.
It was appealed to Circuit and a Jury where the Bus Deivers story change but he was still convicted. The sentance was lowered, to no jail time and I think a fifteen hundred dollar fine.

The last I heard it was pending before the Court of Appeals.
 

sudden valley gunner

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Dec 13, 2008
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Whatcom County
The guy was really really really dumb.

But I can't help but think why? He was looking for a job, so he wanted to do what was right? Was he raised in a neighborhood or in a social group where that is how you do business? I wonder if he doesn't even understand what he did was wrong?

Not condoning his actions at all but sometimes I just wonder what the whole background picture is.


On another note, I may be wrong in this, I assuming he probably didn't have a concealed permit.
 

peter nap

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The guy was really really really dumb.

But I can't help but think why? He was looking for a job, so he wanted to do what was right? Was he raised in a neighborhood or in a social group where that is how you do business? I wonder if he doesn't even understand what he did was wrong?

Not condoning his actions at all but sometimes I just wonder what the whole background picture is.


On another note, I may be wrong in this, I assuming he probably didn't have a concealed permit.

:eek: :eek:


  • [h=3]Trading Places[/h] (1983)
    • 00:17:03 People like this are a menace to decent society.
    • 00:17:06 You're from a broken home of course?
    • 00:17:08 Yeah, we was broke. So what?
    • 00:17:10 You have a history of juvenile arrests, I presume?
    • 00:17:13 Drug abuse, reform school, state prisons and all that-

 

SouthernBoy

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Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
SB, unfortunately he was convicted in GD Court where the judge refused to look or listen to the evidence.
It was appealed to Circuit and a Jury where the Bus Deivers story change but he was still convicted. The sentance was lowered, to no jail time and I think a fifteen hundred dollar fine.

The last I heard it was pending before the Court of Appeals.

Thanks for the response. As I recall he was in his vehicle and was re-holstering his firearm as he removed it from his glove box when stopped at a light. A school bus driver happened to look down and see this and made the complaint. I could very well be wrong with some of this but if I am basically on target, that is very scary. I frequently re-holster my gun in the parking lot where my local post office is (it is a shared lot with other businesses). I don't completely hide what I am doing, I stand out side of my vehicle with the door open to give a little cover. Makes me wonder if someone saw what I was doing whether I could be hauled in for brandishing. And if that's the case, it could be taken to the extreme and a claim could be made that even an exposed gun in a holster was grounds for a brandishing charge.

This is one Virginia statute that seriously needs to be addressed.
 

skidmark

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Valhalla
You can be hauled in for eating a ham sandwhich. Thought everybody understood that's how the world turns.

But yes, the Va statute needs repealing - or at the very least having a mens rea requirement - which may or may not have saved Scouser based on any of the various stories the schoolbus driver told during the two trials.

stay safe.
 

TFred

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Oct 13, 2008
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Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
I'd like to know more about that. Was there anything said or done to communicate a threat in conjunction with the display? Did the applicant have a CHP?
All I know is what was in the newspaper articles, but that did say he was charged with carrying a concealed firearm, so I would assume that he did not have a CHP.

TFred

ETA: Much like the Morris case, I can't imagine this would be a good one to choose for any substantial changes in the law! :)
 
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wimwag

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Dec 10, 2013
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1,049
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Doug
The guy was really really really dumb.

But I can't help but think why? He was looking for a job, so he wanted to do what was right? Was he raised in a neighborhood or in a social group where that is how you do business? I wonder if he doesn't even understand what he did was wrong?

Not condoning his actions at all but sometimes I just wonder what the whole background picture is.


On another note, I may be wrong in this, I assuming he probably didn't have a concealed permit.

I'm going to guess that he was playing the race card. I worked at McD's this summer and had this issue. I myself did an online application, but I brought in the resume instead of uploading one. I explained this and told him how it worked out for me and got called a racist. After 10 minutes of listening to him swear and call everyone in the building including other customers racist names, I called the cops and let them deal with his sorry ass. Sad thing was the scrawny whiny 18 year old high schooler manager went crying to me instead of doing what I did in the end. Why me? I was the 29 year old grandfather maintenance man. At least 10 years on everybody. Lolz
 

Repeater

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Nov 5, 2007
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Richmond, Virginia, USA
Bob Marshall's special exception?

You can be hauled in for eating a ham sandwhich. Thought everybody understood that's how the world turns.

But yes, the Va statute needs repealing - or at the very least having a mens rea requirement - which may or may not have saved Scouser based on any of the various stories the schoolbus driver told during the two trials.

stay safe.

It would appear that Delegate Marshall is providing a 'special exception' with his HB21:

"However, this section shall not apply to any person (i) engaged in excusable or justifiable self-defense or (ii) designated under § 22.1-279.10 who uses a concealed handgun in accordance with his training and certification for the purpose of excusable or justifiable self-defense or the defense of others on school property."

...

NEW! Code Section here:

"§ 22.1-279.10. Designated persons may carry firearms; training.

Each school board shall designate at each school in the district at least one of the following who, notwithstanding any other law to the contrary and upon application with the school board, may carry a concealed handgun on school property: (i) a teacher, principal, or other employee of the school who has been employed by such school division for at least three years; (ii) a person holding a valid concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with § 18.2-308 who currently volunteers and has volunteered for at least three years for the school; or (iii) a retired law-enforcement officer as defined in § 9.1-101 who has lived in the school's district for at least three years. Such designation shall be at the sole discretion of the school board. Any person designated under this section to carry a concealed handgun shall be certified and trained in the storage, use, and handling of a concealed handgun by (i) the Virginia Center for School Safety as provided in § 9.1-184 or (ii) any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course conducted pursuant to the minimum training standards established by the Department of Criminal Justice Services under § 9.1-102."

Comments?
 

wrearick

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Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
650
Location
Virginia Beach, Va.
Another some-people-are-more-equal-that-others, just reworded.

Sorry, I got lost here. While I agree that schools should not be gun free zones and the restrictions removed, this appears to be a step in that direction. Once implemented and a) no accidental discharges / woundings occur and/or b) a killing spree is cut short by the CC person the case can be made to allow any and all who can legally do so have their right restored to them. Bottom line is this bill has the potential to stop a future mass shooting by 1) providing an onsite armed response quicker than any police force, 2) may deter someone from even attempting the crime because they know someone there besides the resource office is armed. I don't see a downside to the bill especially when the focus is centered on the safety of the kids vice not wanting my 2A rights impinged. They already are wrt school yards. This represents a loosening of the bonds, and hopefully a step towards the removal of the bonds. JMHO. It is not all I want or hope for but I can support it as a step in the right direction.
 
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Grapeshot

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Valhalla
Sorry, I got lost here. While I agree that schools should not be gun free zones and the restrictions removed, this appears to be a step in that direction. Once implemented and a) no accidental discharges / woundings occur and/or b) a killing spree is cut short by the CC person the case can be made to allow any and all who can legally do so have their right restored to them. Bottom line is this bill has the potential to stop a future mass shooting by 1) providing an onsite armed response quicker than any police force, 2) may deter someone from even attempting the crime because they know someone there besides the resource office is armed. I don't see a downside to the bill especially when the focus is centered on the safety of the kids vice not wanting my 2A rights impinged. They already are wrt school yards. This represents a loosening of the bonds, and hopefully a step towards the removal of the bonds. JMHO. It is not all I want or hope for but I can support it as a step in the right direction.

Jump through all of the hoops and you may be, might be, certified to carry there. Nothing says you shall be.

Don't be confused by the "look at we've done" implication. Nothing has really changed - honest, legal gun owners are still forbidden to carry there.

It the same old, same old with a new wrapper.
 

wrearick

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Mar 6, 2013
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650
Location
Virginia Beach, Va.
Jump through all of the hoops and you may be, might be, certified to carry there. Nothing says you shall be.

Don't be confused by the "look at we've done" implication. Nothing has really changed - honest, legal gun owners are still forbidden to carry there.

It the same old, same old with a new wrapper.

Understand a little bit better....the devil is in the details. The requirement will be for the school board to have at least one person on the premise that meets the requirements during school hours. That sounds good to me. I will be attending Lobby Days this year and have no problem providing lawmakers with my personal recommendations even if they differ from VCDL who is rating the bill as a STRONGLY SUPPORT. Please give me some talking points as to why the bill should NOT be supported (not having been active until this past year, I can not back up same old, same old as I don't know what came before and can not be convincing if I lack facts/knowledge to make a convining argument. Convince me and I will spread the word.
 

wrearick

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Mar 6, 2013
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650
Location
Virginia Beach, Va.
In order to be fair and provide any and all the opportunity to help me understand this proposal my litmus test will be:
Will the safety of the students be enhanced or endangered by this bill passing? (without gun owners rights being further infringed upon)
 
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skidmark

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Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,444
Location
Valhalla
In order to be fair and provide any and all the opportunity to help me understand this proposal my litmus test will be:
Will the safety of the students be enhanced or endangered by this bill passing? (without gun owners rights being further infringed upon)

The answer to your two-part question is: Maybe, and Emphatically No. If enacted, there will be one gun in the school. The chance that it will be in the place where it is needed when it is needed is about the same as a cop passing by just in time to stop a mugging, or a bank robbery, or someone from jaywalking. If enacted, the rights of the designated gun-toter will be abrridged and infringed upon because among other things they will not be allowed to bring the gun to the school with them. Unless I am some true spur-of-the-moment whackjob who suddenly decides to shoot up a school instead of going to 7-11 for a Slurppy the designated gun-toter can be easily eliminated in the parking lot before they get inside to get the gun from the safe-storage container.

While having a gun at the school is better than not having one, the mere presence of a gun at school will not enhance the safety of students as much as a good kick-proof door and a CCTV camera.

stay safe.
 
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