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Thread: 2013: Fewest Police Deaths by Firearms Since 1887 Wild West!

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    2013: Fewest Police Deaths by Firearms Since 1887 Wild West!

    "The number of law-enforcement officers killed by firearms in 2013 fell to levels not seen since the days of the Wild West, according to a report released Monday. The annual report from the nonprofit National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund also found that deaths in the line of duty generally fell by 8 percent and were the fewest since 1959."

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...rms-since-1887

    http://nleomf.com/

    http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/
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    Regular Member BrianB's Avatar
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    Can't be right. With more "civilians" than ever carrying guns we're supposed to be slaughtering everyone (including police) in droves -- at least so predicted the mainstream media. Since we know they can't be wrong (because they never admit their dire predictions did not come to pass) it is only reasonable to conclude these stats are bogus.
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    The Bigger Question

    The bigger question; why have not citizen non-LEO deaths fallen? Could there be an unstated conflict, with winners and losers?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    The bigger question; why have not citizen non-LEO deaths fallen? Could there be an unstated conflict, with winners and losers?
    One article I read credited the decline with the fact that 90 someodd percent of agencies now require their officers to wear body armor whereas not too long ago fewer than 60 percent did.

    But I get where you're coming from.
    Last edited by BrianB; 12-31-2013 at 09:56 AM.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I find it Ironic how the article talks about cops being "outgunned" and then goes on to explain how they have had the fewest deaths.

    I did not miss the large percentage of homicides that were committed by the cops though.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianB View Post
    One article I read credited the decline with the fact that 90 someodd percent of agencies now require their officers to wear body armor whereas not too long ago fewer than 60 percent did.

    But I get where you're coming from.
    Bingo.

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    Regular Member Shovelhead's Avatar
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    From the news stories I've seen lately regarding many local LEO deaths, they need to spend more time on the behind the wheel DRIVING range, or install roll cages and 5 point harnesses in squad cars.

    Few have been firearm involved fatalities.
    Many have died recently in crashes, and not always when "in pursuit".
    They either run off the road, or collide with other vehicles at intersections at a high rates of speed.
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    There are may factors that contribute to this, body armor is one, better training , better/ faster medical care, better equipment all add up to fewer line of duty deaths.


    The use of criminal offenses to promote gun controls has long been the tactic of the anti's.

    When the real goal no matter what excuse they use is to disarm the population if they don't use one excuse they well use another to meet that goal..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    ... When the real goal no matter what excuse they use is to disarm the population if they don't use one excuse they well use another to meet that goal..
    And just who is it that does the disarming?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    And just who is it that does the disarming?
    We haven't seen any whole sale disarming yet where citizens have been order to turn in all there guns.

    Most of the disarming has been voluntary as the pressure is on put more and more just give up owning guns.

    They decide it is just not worth the hassle then when they decide they need to the road blocks are all set up in place to make it very very hard.

    We lost more gun owner through the medias and schools preaching it is bad ever to physical confiscation.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 12-31-2013 at 02:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    "The number of law-enforcement officers killed by firearms in 2013 fell to levels not seen since the days of the Wild West, according to a report released Monday. The annual report from the nonprofit National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund also found that deaths in the line of duty generally fell by 8 percent and were the fewest since 1959."
    Well, concurrently, there have been more citizens killed by cops than ever before. 500 innocent Americans are murdered by cops every year.

    "Americans Killed by Cops Now Outnumber Americans Killed in Iraq War

    The increase in police brutality in this country is a frightening reality. In the last decade alone the number of people murdered by police has reached 5,000. The number of soldiers killed since the inception of the Iraq war, 4489.

    What went wrong? In the 19070’s SWAT teams were estimated to be used just a few hundred times per year, now we are looking at over 40,000 military style “knock and announce” police raids a year.

    The police presence in this country is being turned into a military with a clearly defined enemy, anyone who questions the establishment."

    Read more at:

    http://thefreethoughtproject.com/ame...lled-iraq-war/

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Augustin View Post
    Well, concurrently, there have been more citizens killed by cops than ever before. 500 innocent Americans are murdered by cops every year.

    "Americans Killed by Cops Now Outnumber Americans Killed in Iraq War

    The increase in police brutality in this country is a frightening reality. In the last decade alone the number of people murdered by police has reached 5,000. The number of soldiers killed since the inception of the Iraq war, 4489.

    What went wrong? In the 19070’s SWAT teams were estimated to be used just a few hundred times per year, now we are looking at over 40,000 military style “knock and announce” police raids a year.

    The police presence in this country is being turned into a military with a clearly defined enemy, anyone who questions the establishment."

    Read more at:

    http://thefreethoughtproject.com/ame...lled-iraq-war/
    Do these "murders" include cases where the citizen is shooting atbtge officers? Or stabbing with knives? Or attempting to do either?

    I personally know an officer that was stabbed. After he was stabbed the person doing the stabbing didn't make it. Does that mean it was murder?

    So how many of the supposed 5000 incidents were like this?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Shovelhead View Post
    From the news stories I've seen lately regarding many local LEO deaths, they need to spend more time on the behind the wheel DRIVING range, or install roll cages and 5 point harnesses in squad cars.

    Few have been firearm involved fatalities.
    Many have died recently in crashes, and not always when "in pursuit".
    They either run off the road, or collide with other vehicles at intersections at a high rates of speed.
    I've done a few Ride alongs with an officer I know.... the harness won't work, cuz THAT OFFICER WOULDN'T EVEN WEAR THE PROVIDED LAP AND SHOULDER BELT!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
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    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Do these "murders" include cases where the citizen is shooting atbtge officers? Or stabbing with knives? Or attempting to do either?

    I personally know an officer that was stabbed. After he was stabbed the person doing the stabbing didn't make it. Does that mean it was murder?

    So how many of the supposed 5000 incidents were like this?



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    "The nation's leading law enforcement agency [FBI] collects vast amounts of information on crime nationwide, but missing from this clearinghouse are statistics on where, how often, and under what circumstances police use deadly force. In fact, no one anywhere comprehensively tracks the most significant act police can do in the line of duty: take a life."~Alan Maimon, in his article, "National Data on Shootings by Police Not Collected," published on November 28, 2011 in the "Las Vegas Review-Journal"
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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    I've done a few Ride alongs with an officer I know.... the harness won't work, cuz THAT OFFICER WOULDN'T EVEN WEAR THE PROVIDED LAP AND SHOULDER BELT!
    Well, they do have that superior training. It seems that many people that are police do not do well with mechanical things.

    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
    ~Citizen

    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Add an internal combustion engine and things just get worse:

    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
    ~Citizen

    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Do these "murders" include cases where the citizen is shooting atbtge officers? Or stabbing with knives? Or attempting to do either?

    I personally know an officer that was stabbed. After he was stabbed the person doing the stabbing didn't make it. Does that mean it was murder?

    So how many of the supposed 5000 incidents were like this?
    All 5,000, according to the incident reports the cops filled out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Augustin View Post
    All 5,000, according to the incident reports the cops filled out.
    Well, except for those in Chicago, where the victims merely fell down the 15 flights of stairs in the middle of a park with nothing but trees and grass (lawn grass--- not the other kind) around them /sarcasm
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Right now, the death toll of citizens at the hands of police is 746, with several times that many wounded, maimed and disfigured.

    https://www.facebook.com/KilledByPolice

    Another thing to keep in mind with this years body count of police are those who Chris Dorner took out, which technically I guess should fall under gang on gang violence, but I don't get to fudge the numbers to enhance a desired effect.
    Last edited by Fuller Malarkey; 12-31-2013 at 07:44 PM.
    Liberty is so strongly a part of human nature that it can be treated as a no-lose argument position.
    ~Citizen

    From the cop’s perspective, the expression “law-abiding citizen” is a functional synonym for “Properly obedient slave".

    "People are not born being "anti-cop" and believing we live in a police state. That is a result of experience."

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    "The nation's leading law enforcement agency [FBI] collects vast amounts of information on crime nationwide, but missing from this clearinghouse are statistics on where, how often, and under what circumstances police use deadly force. In fact, no one anywhere comprehensively tracks the most significant act police can do in the line of duty: take a life."~Alan Maimon, in his article, "National Data on Shootings by Police Not Collected," published on November 28, 2011 in the "Las Vegas Review-Journal"
    Quote Originally Posted by Augustin View Post
    All 5,000, according to the incident reports the cops filled out.
    So between these to statements I'm lead to believe no one has any idea or they were all shoots in self defense.

    So where does the murder thing come into play? Or is this semantics? Like its homicide but justifiable homicide?

    Or maybe this is just anti police propaganda calling it "murder"?

    Its evil when antis use propaganda against us gun guys. But its ok when anti police use propaganda. Makes sense I guess.....

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    Last edited by Primus; 12-31-2013 at 07:44 PM.
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    Both of them look like videos taken during training exercises to me.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Both of them look like videos taken during training exercises to me.
    Agreed..... doesn't matter though just being used to bash police. There are millions of videos of non law enforcement doing these same things or worse. But they aren't as cool or funny to some.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Augustin View Post
    SNIP "Americans Killed by Cops Now Outnumber Americans Killed in Iraq War

    In the last decade alone the number of people murdered by police has reached 5,000.

    Read more at:

    http://thefreethoughtproject.com/ame...lled-iraq-war/
    Murdered?

    Give me a break.



    Also, cop-bashing is forbidden. People get temporary and permanent bans for it.
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    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    Murdered?

    Give me a break.



    Also, cop-bashing is forbidden. People get temporary and permanent bans for it.

    While 5k seems a bit high, that is only 500 people a year. Which is 1.666x10^-6 % of the population (based off of a 300m population), not exactly a large number so I think it could be "possible." Also it would depend on how one defines the murder. For example the case where they lit up the veteran during a raid (wife told him scary people were outside, he grabbed his AR, and something like 60+ rounds hit him from the police without them even telling him to put down his weapon (which was still on safe), and then they wouldn't let the paramedics go in for an hour, forget the person's name) to me would be murder. To others it wouldn't be even though the warrant is questionable and their tactics were excessive.

    Now do I think there were 5k cold-blooded murders? No. But I would classify a lot of the bad/questionable shoots as murder even if the courts find that the police have immunity or some other BS excuse to not hold them accountable.

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    Meta-comment to my correspondents posting video link URLs

    Over the last weeks, somebody's coding has changed so that I get "This plugin is disabled" here on OCDO, but not when I open the link URL in it's own browser window where the video plays fine. My ignorant suspicion is that HTML5 and JavaScript aren't playing together nicely.
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