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finally gave in for my ccw

Maverick9

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Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,404
Location
Mid-atlantic
i am sorry you misunderstood, allow me to quantify my post.

safe is bolted behind my seat, as i am safely rolling to a stop, my firearm is placed in the safe w/my left hand and the safe's door is closed and locked.

as the officer is walking up and touching the back quarter panel of my vehicle i am retrieving my DL and ins paperwork.

roll the window half way down, make sure the doors are locked, and then put my hands on the steering wheel where they remain.

he is presented w/the documents with a comment...'can i help you officer?' depending on my mood at the moment, i might, just might throw in a salutation!

LE starts their speech....'do you know?????'

my response...'can i help you officer'

repeat as necessary till encounter is finished...then again depending on my mood, ticket given or not, will provide a 'thanks for your positive consideration officer!'

next public area, stop and get out of the vehicle, find the safe key, and retrieve my firearm.

ipse

This is sort of going to be my method. I'm looking into getting my guy at Dickenson's tractor to help me pick the right one and get it bolted. Right now on long trips, I'm locking my firearm in a toolbox. That way the -driver- will not be armed, and we won't answer questions not applicable to the stop.

It gripes me that in Va CHP holders are listed in the VCIN a criminal database.
 

notalawyer

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Messages
1,061
Location
Florida
i am sorry you misunderstood, allow me to quantify my post.

safe is bolted behind my seat, as i am safely rolling to a stop, my firearm is placed in the safe w/my left hand and the safe's door is closed and locked.

as the officer is walking up and touching the back quarter panel of my vehicle i am retrieving my DL and ins paperwork.

roll the window half way down, make sure the doors are locked, and then put my hands on the steering wheel where they remain.

he is presented w/the documents with a comment...'can i help you officer?' depending on my mood at the moment, i might, just might throw in a salutation!

LE starts their speech....'do you know?????'

my response...'can i help you officer'

repeat as necessary till encounter is finished...then again depending on my mood, ticket given or not, will provide a 'thanks for your positive consideration officer!'

next public area, stop and get out of the vehicle, find the safe key, and retrieve my firearm.

ipse


safe is bolted behind my seat, as i am safely rolling to a stop, my firearm is placed in the safe w/my left hand and the safe's door is closed and locked.
. . .
as the officer is walking up and touching the back quarter panel of my vehicle i am retrieving my DL and ins paperwork.
This activity will get you pulled out of the car, proned out and cuffed by many cops I know. Look up "furtive movements".
 

Primus

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Oct 24, 2013
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This activity will get you pulled out of the car, proned out and cuffed by many cops I know. Look up "furtive movements".

+1. This action will severely increase your odds of a friendly pat frisk of yourself and your vehicle if the cop sees it and depending on other factors. If you manage to lock the safe then your good to go when he pat frisks and find the safe. In the off chance you fumble and its not secured by the time he walks up could go very wrong. Thinking he walks up sees your arm either beneath seat or behind seat and a firearm in your hand. Is gun coming out or going in? Even if going in now the question becomes why concealing? Can see this quickly building RAS for at least the pat frisk of person and car.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
 

solus

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Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
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here nc
This activity will get you pulled out of the car, proned out and cuffed by many cops I know. Look up "furtive movements".

REALLY, come on notalawyer, primus, et al., get a some type of grip on reality in whatever world you frequent...

what activity are you specifically referencing? (let me assist you in your determination - pick a number!)
1. my putting my firearm out of harms way in a locked safe?
2. my rolling the window down half way and ensuring the doors are locked?
3. my monotone 'can i help you officer?' with possible salutation?
4. my getting the appropriate documents together?
5. my hands on the steering wheel holding said documents?
6. my 'thanks for your positive consideration officer?' farewell?

guess then the locked door and half open window will be my saving grace, eh?

do you truly believe this motion is not well practiced to the point i do not have to turn around in the seat!!

do you truly believe you can see the safe while standing next to my vehicle?

do you truly believe w/o a warrant someone is going to access this container?

do you truly believe my vehicle will be searched w/my consent?

so what part of my practiced routine is going to get me pulled out of my locked vehicle and pushed prone to the ground by the nice LE?

what part of terry has been violated?

finally, notalawyer, you need to get a better class of LE friends or take their bravado tales of 'how they would handle it' with a grain of salt. Primus, it would be nice to watch this go down while you are running the show...there is so much i could do with the extra money.

ipse
 
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solus

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
This is sort of going to be my method. I'm looking into getting my guy at Dickenson's tractor to help me pick the right one and get it bolted. Right now on long trips, I'm locking my firearm in a toolbox. That way the -driver- will not be armed, and we won't answer questions not applicable to the stop.

It gripes me that in Va CHP holders are listed in the VCIN a criminal database.

go look at something like this...and you can find them cheaper if you look about at Gander, Bass, eh you get the picture...

http://www.galls.com/stack-on-porta...79|pkw||pmt|&gclid=CPu1vt_Sv7wCFcdQOgodiywA_Q

my biometric is disconnected to preclude someone saying i can easily access the container...battery stack is sitting in the glove box.

ipse
 

WalkingWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
Solus they have super human visoion and can see you in your truck with your hands below observation level in a squad car lower than the truck.

Clue for you two I have urinated in a bottle in my vehicle waiting to roll up for inspection at weigh stations and I was not pulled out, or any ridiculous such BS. Plus I would make any LEO look like a idiot in court trying to explain how he could see my reaching into a safe or even under a seat.
 

Primus

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
3,939
Location
United States
REALLY, come on notalawyer, primus, et al., get a some type of grip on reality in whatever world you frequent...

what activity are you specifically referencing? (let me assist you in your determination - pick a number!)
1. my putting my firearm out of harms way in a locked safe?
2. my rolling the window down half way and ensuring the doors are locked?
3. my monotone 'can i help you officer?' with possible salutation?
4. my getting the appropriate documents together?
5. my hands on the steering wheel holding said documents?
6. my 'thanks for your positive consideration officer?' farewell?

guess then the locked door and half open window will be my saving grace, eh?

do you truly believe this motion is not well practiced to the point i do not have to turn around in the seat!!

do you truly believe you can see the safe while standing next to my vehicle?

do you truly believe w/o a warrant someone is going to access this container?

do you truly believe my vehicle will be searched w/my consent?

so what part of my practiced routine is going to get me pulled out of my locked vehicle and pushed prone to the ground by the nice LE?

what part of terry has been violated?

finally, notalawyer, you need to get a better class of LE friends or take their bravado tales of 'how they would handle it' with a grain of salt. Primus, it would be nice to watch this go down while you are running the show...there is so much i could do with the extra money.

ipse

You'd never get a dime. You'd spend lots of time in court and on the internet and end up with lots if lawyer fees.

Good luck. Be safe.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
 

solus

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Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
why is it primus you make such profound and prolific pronouncements to the membership and yet when challenged the least bit you consistently WUSSIE out without any type of substantiated substance to explain your initial statement(s).

how is this august membership suppose to be 'learned' in the proper protocol(s) to assure we don't get dragged from our vehicle and unceremoniously face planted prone on the ground so the nice officer(s) can maintain their safety.

surely you are out here to educate us poor minions of how you and your elite band of blue wish for us to behave?

can you explain that for me?

if it was only a dollar from your pocket, it would be worth whatever the cost!

ipse
 
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WalkingWolf

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Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
Location
North Carolina
You'd never get a dime. You'd spend lots of time in court and on the internet and end up with lots if lawyer fees.

Good luck. Be safe.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

Please explain how YOU can see the hands of the driver of a vehicle you are pulling over? If you had the authority in the first place. Are you now claiming you have x-ray vision?
 

notalawyer

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Messages
1,061
Location
Florida
REALLY, come on notalawyer, primus, et al., get a some type of grip on reality in whatever world you frequent...

what activity are you specifically referencing? (let me assist you in your determination - pick a number!)
1. my putting my firearm out of harms way in a locked safe?
2. my rolling the window down half way and ensuring the doors are locked?
3. my monotone 'can i help you officer?' with possible salutation?
4. my getting the appropriate documents together?
5. my hands on the steering wheel holding said documents?
6. my 'thanks for your positive consideration officer?' farewell?

guess then the locked door and half open window will be my saving grace, eh?

do you truly believe this motion is not well practiced to the point i do not have to turn around in the seat!!

do you truly believe you can see the safe while standing next to my vehicle?

do you truly believe w/o a warrant someone is going to access this container?

do you truly believe my vehicle will be searched w/my consent?

so what part of my practiced routine is going to get me pulled out of my locked vehicle and pushed prone to the ground by the nice LE?

what part of terry has been violated?

finally, notalawyer, you need to get a better class of LE friends or take their bravado tales of 'how they would handle it' with a grain of salt. Primus, it would be nice to watch this go down while you are running the show...there is so much i could do with the extra money.

ipse


what activity are you specifically referencing? (let me assist you in your determination - pick a number!)
"1. my putting my firearm out of harms way in a locked safe? " & "4. my getting the appropriate documents together?"


finally, notalawyer, you need to get a better class of LE friends or take their bravado tales of 'how they would handle it' with a grain of salt.
'Bravado tales' upheld by the courts. :shocker:


Furtive [by stealth] Movement: "A movement reasonably consistent with going for, or attempting to hide, a weapon and not reasonably consistent with anything else under the circumstances."

"Furtive movements may be sufficient to establish reasonable suspicion that an individual has a weapon and thus justify a pat-down search."
See Lightbourne v. State, 438 So.2d 380 (Fla.1983).

"Furtive movements may give rise to a reasonable suspicion that someone is armed and dangerous."
See Brown v. State, 863 So.2d 459, 461 (Fla. 5th DCA 2004).

And hundreds, if not thousands, of similar cases.


do you truly believe this motion is not well practiced to the point i do not have to turn around in the seat!!
Are you naive enough to believe that the LEO that has just pulled you over has not witnessed such behaviors thousands of times?


do you truly believe my vehicle will be searched w/my consent?
Without your consent, absolutely! If the LEO can document RAS of 'Furtive Movements"


so what part of my practiced routine is going to get me pulled out of my locked vehicle and pushed prone to the ground by the nice LE?
The aforementioned 'Furtive Movements'.


But of course, you are free to do whatever you want.

Hope you enjoy the taste of pavement in the morning!
 

WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
Messages
11,930
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North Carolina
Were you not the same one who made this claim before that you could see hands in the cockpit of a vehicle. Solus said NOTHING about doing the jig behind the wheel, or reaching under the seat which in some vehicles MIGHT show some movement. I seem to remember this subject coming up before with the pilots holster discussion. That putting a lock on the holster would get a person slammed to the ground. Was that YOU?

Furtive movement could be the bathroom dance, you would throw them on the ground for that?

Complete utter BS and fantasy.
 
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notalawyer

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Messages
1,061
Location
Florida
why is it primus you make such profound and prolific pronouncements to the membership and yet when challenged the least bit you consistently WUSSIE out without any type of substantiated substance to explain your initial statement(s).

how is this august membership suppose to be 'learned' in the proper protocol(s) to assure we don't get dragged from our vehicle and unceremoniously face planted prone on the ground so the nice officer(s) can maintain their safety.

surely you are out here to educate us poor minions of how you and your elite band of blue wish for us to behave?

can you explain that for me?

if it was only a dollar from your pocket, it would be worth whatever the cost!

ipse

Ignoring all your other rhetoric: Reasonably intellegent folks can answer this question:
how is this august membership suppose to be 'learned' in the proper protocol(s) to assure we don't get dragged from our vehicle and unceremoniously face planted prone on the ground
I thought this was common sense?
Simple: Roll your window down, keep your hands on the steering wheel, and wait for officer friendly to approach and follow his instructions. :banghead:
 

notalawyer

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Jun 19, 2012
Messages
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Location
Florida
Were you not the same one who made this claim before that you could see hands in the cockpit of a vehicle. Solus said NOTHING about doing the jig behind the wheel, or reaching under the seat which in some vehicles MIGHT show some movement. I seem to remember this subject coming up before with the pilots holster discussion. That putting a lock on the holster would get a person slammed to the ground. Was that YOU?

Furtive movement could be the bathroom dance, you would throw them on the ground for that?

Complete utter BS and fantasy.

Me? I have no idea what you are referencing, so nope, not me.
 

WalkingWolf

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Jul 31, 2011
Messages
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Location
North Carolina
Any police officer who claims they saw hand movement in a moving vehicle from behind is a outright liar. AND most officers that use that excuse(furtive movement) are most probably liars. It is a classic excuse and lie that some police officers use to do a search. Honest police officers do not need such lies to do their job.
 
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notalawyer

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Jun 19, 2012
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Florida
Any police officer who claims they saw hand movement in a moving vehicle from behind is a outright liar. AND most officers that use that excuse(furtive movement) are most probably liars. It is a classic excuse and lie that some police officers use to do a search. Honest police officers do not need such lies to do their job.

Moving on.
 

solus

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Aug 22, 2013
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here nc
notalawyer...

reference your judicial cite lightbourne... what does the word 'and' mean to you as the cite specifically states:

quote...defendant's furtive movements and nervous appearance...unquote

and i am sure the same 'thousands' of others have other criteria attached to your use of furtive movement mentality.

ipse
 

solus

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Aug 22, 2013
Messages
9,315
Location
here nc
Ignoring all your other rhetoric: Reasonably intellegent folks can answer this question:
I thought this was common sense?
Simple: Roll your window down, keep your hands on the steering wheel, and wait for officer friendly to approach and follow his instructions. :banghead:

primus, i didn't know you could throw your voice from MA to FL...

and my window is coming down max, half way AND i do not follow their instructions blindly i will not capitulate my rights because someone believes they are going to subject me to their whims.

since you are in FL you must are not aware what is taught by the DoJ to those who have received their CHP.

ipse
 
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notalawyer

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Messages
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Location
Florida
primus, i didn't know you could throw your voice from MA to FL...

and my window is coming down max, half way AND i do not follow their instructions blindly i will not capitulate my rights because someone believes they are going to subject me to their whims.

since you are in FL you must are not aware what is taught by the DoJ to those who have received their CHP.

ipse

i do not follow their instructions blindly i will not capitulate my rights because someone believes they are going to subject me to their whims.
:uhoh:


since you are in FL you must are not aware what is taught by the DoJ to those who have received their CHP.
Nope. Enlighten me.
 
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