Long gun transfer

Hi all,

I'm a newbie here and looking for one of the leaders to communicate with about the Rule 14 exception and whether it applies to some questions I am seeking answers to. Unfortunately, the "leader list" is not linking me to a list, but a blank page. It looks like people are tired of this subject, but perhaps someone can at least tell me if my question qualifies for discussion under the exception, and if not, can you refer me to an internet forum where I can discuss it and get more information?

(14) LONG GUN CARRY IS OFF-TOPIC: This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life. We do NOT promote the carry of long guns. Long guns are great! OCDO co-founders John & Mike and most of the members of this forum own at least one long gun - but due to urban area issues of muzzle control, lack of trigger guard coverage, and the fact that the long gun carry issue distracts from our main mission to promote the open carry of handguns in daily life, we will leave long gun carry activism in the capable hands of the future founders of web sites about long gun carry. Exception: This rule does NOT apply to discussions about long gun carry in jurisdictions which ban handgun carry but not long gun carry and thus require long gun carry as a matter of public policy.

Basically, it's pretty simple. I'm not a regular gun user, but my father taught me the basics of shooting a simple rifle many years ago. I'm a middle aged lady who recently moved to Seattle and I am living in an apartment building as a renter. My lease does not say anything about firearms. I don't have any criminal record or the rest of that stuff. However, I am completely lost when I look at the "legalese" for Washington State.

Here's the question: I'd like to have a relative who still has this rifle - to send me this rifle - the same one my father taught me to shoot. I don't recall the exact type - it's a simple old fashioned smaller rifle purchased during the seventies. They have it in their closet in the countryside of another state where it's legal there and without any papers I believe. Can I keep this in my Seattle apartment? Do I need to register it or get papers? If it's o.k., are there any special shipping rules - can they just priority mail it, for example? (Unloaded, of course, and well packed.) Also, if I can keep it in my Seattle apartment, can I keep it, in a safe and secure manner, loaded?

Thanks very much for any further information. I hope I'm not breaking rules - I would have PM'd a leader, but again, I don't know who they are. And if you can't discuss this, can you refer me on to another forum?

PM sent to new member Reader about transferring a long gun. Also assured her that questions about transfers are not discussion about the open carry of long guns.

stay safe.

skidmark said:

PM sent to new member Reader about transferring a long gun. Also assured her that questions about transfers are not discussion about the open carry of long guns.

stay safe.

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Welcome to the forum Reader. Moved this to the Washington sub-forum for state specific responses.

So long as you are legally able to possess firearms there is legally only one way you can have the gun mailed to WA..and that is for your relative to mail it TO a gun dealer in Seattle. You need to contact a dealer that will accept the gun from a non ffl...some will and some won't and if they won't then your relative will have to have a ffl where they live transfer it. The dealer can charge you a fee to do the transfer. As far as keeping it in your apt so long as you are lawfully allowed to own guns then you are good to go...if it says in your lease no guns then you better be extra cautious not to have the gun out in the open if maintenence comes in etc. But there have already been cases like this across the country and they usually end well for the gun owner.
http://www.9news.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=349123

The only way to get the rifle from your relative without using a ffl is if they come to Seattle for a visit and bring the gun and it is being given to you.
http://www.nssfblog.com/giving-a-firearm-as-a-gift-some-reminders-from-nssf/

Welcome to the forum.

I am sure I can add nothing to what the others already discussed.

Hope you stick around, we can be a lively bunch at times....

Thanks

Thanks, all, for the welcome, information, and links. I'm probably in the "Old Betsy" transfer category at the NSSF link.

http://www.nssfblog.com/giving-a-firearm-as-a-gift-some-reminders-from-nssf/

So, I'm understanding the forum rule applies to conversations about long gun "open carry." Which is different than forum discussion on, say, having a rifle in your apartment, and in Seattle. Or having "Old Betsy" sent from out-of-state, and where rules may vary.

If relatives bring it to you and have to fly, I guess shipping might still be easier.

And, I gather, if you can have it in your apartment unloaded, as long as it's safely secured, you can have it loaded as well, if you wanted to use it in self-defense should there be an intruder.

And that there are probably areas a little out of the city where you can legally practice outdoors, or show an eighteen year old how to safely use it. In an old tree stump or something. Or am I way out of date at this point?

An eighteen year old in WA state can't be a registered owner, but can he legally use it, himself?

Reader said:

Thanks, all, for the welcome, information, and links. I'm probably in the "Old Betsy" transfer category at the NSSF link.

http://www.nssfblog.com/giving-a-firearm-as-a-gift-some-reminders-from-nssf/

So, I'm understanding the forum rule applies to conversations about long gun "open carry." Which is different than forum discussion on, say, having a rifle in your apartment, and in Seattle. Or having "Old Betsy" sent from out-of-state, and where rules may vary.

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And, I gather, if you can have it in your apartment unloaded, as long as it's safely secured, you can have it loaded as well, if you wanted to use it in self-defense should there be an intruder.

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Washington law says regarding long guns (rifles and shotguns) that you may not have them loaded in a vehicle. That's it. Loaded in your home is perfectly legal. There is no requirement per law of this state that any firearm be locked up. It's simply a wise idea for the purpose of safety.

If relatives bring it to you and have to fly, I guess shipping might still be easier.

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Actually, if a a friend or relative wanted to bring you the rifle during the course of their travels, and their travels included a plane, it is actually fairly easy to transport a firearm in your checked baggage as long as you abide by certain specific federal laws. I won't get into those laws at this point but I would be more then willing to provide the information as needed.

And that there are probably areas a little out of the city where you can legally practice outdoors, or show an eighteen year old how to safely use it. In an old tree stump or something. Or am I way out of date at this point?

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I personally have not done it for many years, but again, there are many people here that have "gone shooting" at places other then shooting ranges. I'm fairly sure that if the discharge of a firearm is not restricted on private property per some local law, you would be more then within your rights to shoot on your own private property assuming it is done with the utmost safety in mind.

An eighteen year old in WA state can't be a registered owner, but can he legally use it, himself?

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An 18 year old can in fact legally own a long gun or pistol. State law and more to the point, federal law, restricts the purchase of handguns from a FFL (Federal Firearms License/Licensee (a licensed dealer)) to the age of 21 years or older (but private purchases may be done at age 18). State law specifically restricts the possession of handguns to those that are under the age of 21. Those under the age of 21 may only carry a handgun on their person in their home or fixed place of business and there are certain exceptions to the transporting of said handguns. This link is to the Revised Code of Washington (AKA state law) regarding all things related to firearms. LINK Please take some time to read all laws that directly pertain to you and your family. Some are able to be skipped such as laws 9.41.100 or 9.41.110 as an example.

I am not a lawyer, I am simple a well informed law abiding citizen

Edited to be more specific. I did not want to confuse Reader with regards to the lawful ownership of handguns or long guns with the explicit details and thus only stated the most pertinent facts regarding that specific issue. Edited portion is in bold font.

Washington RCW on firearms is actually easier than some other states laws to read.

Some state specific reading:

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...out-Open-Carry

http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ights-Pamphlet

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41 , especially .050, .060, .270, .280, .290, .300

You don't have to be 18 to lawfully use a firearm.

A firearm crossing state lines to transfer ownership must go through a licensed dealer. So, your family member could not legally fly out with a firearm give it to you and fly home. They could fly out with a firearm, transfer it to a dealer who then transfers it to you doing the proper federal paperwork and background check. Likewise you cannot legally go to another state, receive a firearm from a family member and return with it unless you go through a dealer and the background check. I don't know what all dealers on your side of the water do transfers but I'm sure there are a few. Most dealers charge between $25-$75 to conduct a transfer. If you can't find someone on your side of the water that is reasonable and convenient, shoot me a PM and I'll help you out. I'm in Port Orchard but I handle transfers all the time and my rates are reasonable.

SirPuma
Aka Marcus
Celtic Armory

sirpuma said:

A firearm crossing state lines to transfer ownership must go through a licensed dealer. So, your family member could not legally fly out with a firearm give it to you and fly home. They could fly out with a firearm, transfer it to a dealer who then transfers it to you doing the proper federal paperwork and background check. Likewise you cannot legally go to another state, receive a firearm from a family member and return with it unless you go through a dealer and the background check. I don't know what all dealers on your side of the water do transfers but I'm sure there are a few. Most dealers charge between $25-$75 to conduct a transfer. If you can't find someone on your side of the water that is reasonable and convenient, shoot me a PM and I'll help you out. I'm in Port Orchard but I handle transfers all the time and my rates are reasonable.

SirPuma
Aka Marcus
Celtic Armory

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Why would she need to worry about an FFL when she is not purchasing the firearm from out of state? I understand that some states require a background check but in Washington, I don't recall that a background check is required for private transfers (at least not yet). As long as it is legal in the state where the firearm is currently located and in the state where it will be moved to, what is the issue? Again, this is not a purchase, this is a "gift" for all intents and purposes. The OP knows that she is not a prohibited person, the person in current possession of the firearm should know that the OP is not a prohibited person. So again, as long as it's not being "sold" across state lines then there should be no issue.

U.S. Code › Title 18 › Part I › Chapter 44 › § 922
18 U.S. Code

(a) It shall be unlawful—
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—

(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

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Again... Read my signature at the bottom of this post

Grim_Night said:

Why would she need to worry about an FFL when she is not purchasing the firearm from out of state? I understand that some states require a background check but in Washington, I don't recall that a background check is required for private transfers (at least not yet). As long as it is legal in the state where the firearm is currently located and in the state where it will be moved to, what is the issue? Again, this is not a purchase, this is a "gift" for all intents and purposes. The OP knows that she is not a prohibited person, the person in current possession of the firearm should know that the OP is not a prohibited person. So again, as long as it's not being "sold" across state lines then there should be no issue.



Again... Read my signature at the bottom of this post

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You are technically correct (the very best sort of correct to be). But you are missing the point.

Reader is looking at the cost of shipping the rifle to her as opposed to having her relative fly to Washington. Going that route, she will need to go through a FFL, regardless if money or other consideration changes hands. Lots less expensive than a round-trip plane ticket from anywhere. And it has the added advantage that her relative will not have to be groped coming and going in order to do a good deed.

stay safe.

Just lend it and never ask for it back.

Grim_Night said:

Why would she need to worry about an FFL when she is not purchasing the firearm from out of state? I understand that some states require a background check but in Washington, I don't recall that a background check is required for private transfers (at least not yet). As long as it is legal in the state where the firearm is currently located and in the state where it will be moved to, what is the issue? Again, this is not a purchase, this is a "gift" for all intents and purposes. The OP knows that she is not a prohibited person, the person in current possession of the firearm should know that the OP is not a prohibited person. So again, as long as it's not being "sold" across state lines then there should be no issue.



Again... Read my signature at the bottom of this post

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If you read A that says she can go to the other state and receive the firearm IF she's able to legally purchase or possess the firearm in that state. So her going there to get it really depends on what the laws are in that state.

"(A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,"

It does not make it legal for her family member to transport the firearm to WA and transfer it without going through a dealer. Section 3 refers to transferring a firearm through a dealer. Anyone can purchase a long gun in any other state, provided it is not a violation of that state's laws. Some states only permit a resident of a neighboring state to purchase long guns. You must be a resident to purchase a handgun or an other. Handling a transfer through a dealer just makes it all go smoother and avoids any legal entanglements.

Grim is also glossing over the following part:

"(A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession"

Or at least, I sure didn't see the word "gift" mentioned as an exception in that section, did I just miss it?