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Thread: This is what we're up against on the street

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    Regular Member SAvage410's Avatar
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    This is what we're up against on the street

    Saw this today at AR15.com and thought it would be useful. It's not specific to Virginia, but I thought I'd start it here and let it spread or be moved if need be.

    http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1285487_.html

    Chilling.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    It can be a rough world out there.

    There are those have nots that will releave you of what you have w/o any consideration of right or wrong simply to satisfy their wanting it.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    It can be a rough world out there.

    There are those have nots that will releave you of what you have w/o any consideration of right or wrong simply to satisfy their wanting it.
    I sometimes look around and see lots of 'soft targets'. 70-80 year old semi-disabled people and wonder how they make it through the day. One has the sense that they will be hit before I am, but is that true? Not really.

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    2 times ive had these type of people stick guns in my face. both times i was unarmed... never again

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandiego View Post
    2 times ive had these type of people stick guns in my face. both times i was unarmed... never again
    Not to be dissuasive, but I got news for ya. Being armed is of no help when you have a gun sticking in your face, my friend. Can you describe the circumstances a bit for us?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sandiego

    2 times ive had these type of people stick guns in my face. both times i was unarmed... never again
    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Not to be dissuasive, but I got news for ya. Being armed is of no help when you have a gun sticking in your face, my friend. Can you describe the circumstances a bit for us?
    When the aggressor is that close (in your face), simple disarming techniques will change the dynamics.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 01-02-2014 at 08:59 AM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    While there are a few places where the writer may have messed up, this is very worthwhile and factual in the reality of the real world of the street. Much of what he has written coincides with what I have long believed to be real.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    When the aggressor is that close (in your face), simple disarming techniques will change the dynamics.
    Please explain a 'simple disarming technique' that my 5'4" girlfriends can use on a large male. I figure if she can't pull it off neither can I. Thanks.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Please explain a 'simple disarming technique' that my 5'4" girlfriends can use on a large male. I figure if she can't pull it off neither can I. Thanks.
    There are a number of easily learned techniques (google is your friend) but not so easily explained succinctly here. They do not depend on the physical strength of the defender. General rule of thumb is that the first person to move/react wins.

    One such example:
    http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=514

    Another:
    http://www.pdws.biz/Simple_Weapons_Disarms.html
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Not to be dissuasive, but I got news for ya. Being armed is of no help when you have a gun sticking in your face, my friend. Can you describe the circumstances a bit for us?
    1st instance was a burglary.
    came home from work and a guy walks out of my bedroom with what looked like a hi-point in his hand
    being unarmed and in the wrong area of the apartment to run away without being shot... i kinda just stood there with my hands up
    he walked up to me. stuck the gun in my face while heading out the door. i couldnt understand half of the things he was saying except a few choice curse words.
    he took off as soon as he crossed the threshold and i was not going after him

    2nd instance was an attempted car jacking
    i was sitting at a light when a guy crossing the street behind my car walked up to the drivers side behind me and stuck a gun in my face and started yelling at me
    i somehow got a hold of his wrist and pushed his hand out of my face and floored the gas pedal. i didnt hear him shooting and im still alive so i chalk that up as a pee in your pants moment

    being armed in the first situation might have helped me but i can see the 2nd situation being of no help at all... either way id rather be armed than not armed

  11. #11
    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    Watch This

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Please explain a 'simple disarming technique' that my 5'4" girlfriends can use on a large male. I figure if she can't pull it off neither can I. Thanks.
    West Seattle bus robbery surveillance video released


    Prosecutors released video Wednesday of a confrontation on a Metro Transit bus between a gun-wielding robber and a rider. The images show the man react quickly when face-to-face with the pistol, then pull the gun from his hand and begin tackling the suspect.

    ~Whitney
    The problem with America is stupidity.
    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    There are a number of easily learned techniques (google is your friend) but not so easily explained succinctly here. They do not depend on the physical strength of the defender. General rule of thumb is that the first person to move/react wins.

    One such example:
    http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=514

    Another:
    http://www.pdws.biz/Simple_Weapons_Disarms.html
    Pulling your chain here a "little" bit here....But

    First person to ACT effectively and decisively wins, anything else is a REACTion! LOL
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
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    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Please explain a 'simple disarming technique' that my 5'4" girlfriends can use on a large male. I figure if she can't pull it off neither can I. Thanks.
    SIMPLE, hmmm. I would like to know this myself as the way I see it, you better get it right the first time when the gun is in your face or it could get very ugly if your timing is off, fo sho !

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    SA and OC seem to have negated the need for hand to hand. The point I think he was trying to get across was not he wanted to be armed if there was a next time. BUT he wanted to be armed so there was NO next time. Bad guys tend to find a softer target when they see a LAC.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Pulling your chain here a "little" bit here....But

    First person to ACT effectively and decisively wins, anything else is a REACTion! LOL
    I understand that Joe. Still I would rather go down trying than not. If the BG is too close, he is doable.

    We will react as we train will we not. (rhetorical)
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Not to be dissuasive, but I got news for ya. Being armed is of no help when you have a gun sticking in your face, my friend. Can you describe the circumstances a bit for us?
    Being armed is the only solution after you have disarmed the individual who has just threatened your life. There is no certainty that you can maintain control of his weapon, but if you can get it out of his hands or take control long enough to draw your own firearm and shoot to stop the threat then you have a much better chance of going home to your loved ones. Let's not forget that most criminals are cowards, and once they realize they are facing an armed opponent and that they will likely get shot if they don't leave you alone, then more than likely the confrontation will be terminated.

    If someone has a gun in your face then more than likely they are wanting something on your person, most likely your money. If you carry where you can grab your firearm while it appears that you are grabbing your wallet, then you can get the jump on the robber in front of you. Action is faster than reaction! If someone has a gun to me and wants my money, they will be in bad shape when I come up with a ball of fire and a bullet entering their flesh. Could I get shot? Perhaps, but at least I would know I defended my life and liberty against an opponent that cares of neither.
    "I never in my life seen a Kentuckian without a gun..."-Andrew Jackson

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."-Patrick Henry; speaking of protecting the rights of an armed citizenry.

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    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    Every situation is different.

    You can study and practice for a lifetime and still get stuck in a situation you cannot defend against.

    That doesn't mean we shouldn't study!

    We practice what we can and put it to use when and if we can.

    Just like the firearm, hand-to-hand combat is only a tool.

    The tool may not work for each situation, but if you do not have it, you will never know.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KYGlockster View Post
    Being armed is the only solution after you have disarmed the individual who has just threatened your life. There is no certainty that you can maintain control of his weapon, but if you can get it out of his hands or take control long enough to draw your own firearm and shoot to stop the threat ....
    Uh, sorry, how is a disarmed gunman still 'shootable'? Sorry to quibble.

    Now, hitting him in the head with his gun, that makes sense.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Uh, sorry, how is a disarmed gunman still 'shootable'? Sorry to quibble.

    Now, hitting him in the head with his gun, that makes sense.
    Does having a gun in your hand, mean that the other party (now disarmed BG) does not have the capacity to cause you serious bodily harm or death?

    Note that I am not providing an answer, but only intend to raise the question.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member MyWifeSaidYes's Avatar
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    Just like a good guy, a firearm is only a tool for a bad guy.

    Taking the tool away doesn't stop them from being bad.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    What does a caring, sensitive person feel when they are forced to use a handgun to stop a threat?

    Recoil.

  21. #21
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    A bad guy that goes after a citizen OPENLY CARRYING probably is not a coward. While many criminals are, they are the type to pass on high risk targets in the first place. I dealt with such characters as "Babe" Gabriel, and "Cornbread" Horton and they were very very dangerous, and definitely not cowards. But then these types could usually be found at certain locations when they were alive. Having a gun is good, using your noodle along with a gun is much better. Even using your noodle without a gun is better than being a numpty with a gun.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    A bad guy that goes after a citizen OPENLY CARRYING probably is not a coward.
    .
    More then likely they just didn't see it or were to drunk, high or stoned to care.

    Or they are real bad guys who are willing to shoot it out.

    The worse ones can be a combination of both.
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    [QUOTE=WalkingWolf;2022616]. I dealt with such characters as "Babe" Gabriel, and "Cornbread" Horton and they were very very dangerous, and definitely not cowards. QUOTE]

    Please enlighten us who these guys were Google does me no good.

    Every jurisdiction can have a few really bad guys that one take extreme care in handling.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 01-06-2014 at 06:48 PM.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

  24. #24
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Firearms Iinstuctor;2022695]
    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    . I dealt with such characters as "Babe" Gabriel, and "Cornbread" Horton and they were very very dangerous, and definitely not cowards. QUOTE]

    Please enlighten us who these guys were Google does me no good.

    Every jurisdiction can have a few really bad guys that one take extreme care in handling.
    I will have to see if I can find some information relating to them. They were(I believe both dead) some very bad people in Illinois. Babe moved to Colorado after going a few rounds with LE. If memory serves he is suspected of killing two people there.

    Both Babe and Cornbread were not people you would run into everyday on the street. They hung out at certain places that were well known for bad guys.

    http://www.sj-r.com/x69095387/Babe-G...olorado-prison

    http://www.leagle.com/decision/19821841676F2d1165_11680

    The problem is unless one has knowledge or dealings with the likes of them, nobody really knows who is that dangerous when encountering bad guys. I assume all bad guys are extremely dangerous, and never make the mistake of expecting them to be a coward. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best outcome.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-06-2014 at 07:17 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

  25. #25
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    [QUOTE=WalkingWolf;2022703]
    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post

    I will have to see if I can find some information relating to them. They were(I believe both dead) some very bad people in Illinois. Babe moved to Colorado after going a few rounds with LE. If memory serves he is suspected of killing two people there.

    Both Babe and Cornbread were not people you would run into everyday on the street. They hung out at certain places that were well known for bad guys.

    http://www.sj-r.com/x69095387/Babe-G...olorado-prison

    http://www.leagle.com/decision/19821841676F2d1165_11680

    The problem is unless one has knowledge or dealings with the likes of them, nobody really knows who is that dangerous when encountering bad guys. I assume all bad guys are extremely dangerous, and never make the mistake of expecting them to be a coward. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best outcome.
    Under estimating ones opponent is a good way to end up getting hurt.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

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