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Thread: Newport News: Touch w/o Threatening = Brandishing

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    Newport News: Touch w/o Threatening = Brandishing

    Another example of why it is best to avoid altercations while carrying. While the article states he "did not pull or threaten to use" the firearm, this guy could have subconsciously touched it without even thinking, resulting in the brandishing charge.

    Or, the gentleman have only been attempting to protect the firearm from being grabbed by the other party! Additionally, this is probably another example of why you should not provide statements to police w/o an attorney's advice.

    http://www.dailypress.com/news/crime...,7140201.story

    Newport News: Man charged with brandishing gun during altercation

    By Sarah Pawlowski Daily Press 1:22 p.m. EST, January 2, 2014

    A 22-year-old Newport News man was charged with brandishing a firearm after a driving incident turned to an altercation...

    ...Both drivers got out of their vehicles and began to argue. During the altercation, a police investigation determined the driver of the Impala touched a firearm he was wearing in plain sight on his hip, Eley said. The man did not pull out the firearm or threaten to use it, he said...
    The man was given a summons for brandishing his weapon and released.
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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullseye View Post
    Another example of why it is best to avoid altercations while carrying. While the article states he "did not pull or threaten to use" the firearm, this guy could have subconsciously touched it without even thinking, resulting in the brandishing charge.

    Or, the gentleman have only been attempting to protect the firearm from being grabbed by the other party! Additionally, this is probably another example of why you should not provide statements to police w/o an attorney's advice.
    So, no touching allowed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    So, no touching allowed?
    Touching the gun can, in some cases, be considered brandishing.

    Really, all carriers should know their state law in this regard.

    A good thread to remind.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Under this standard, nearly every LEO is guilty of brandishing. Many rest their hand on their firearm.

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Under this standard, nearly every LEO is guilty of brandishing. Many rest their hand on their firearm.

    TFred
    Note the "in some cases" in my post? I don't think that resting your palm on the gun would qualify by itself.

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    Depends on how it is done

    I routinely rest my arm/wrist on the handle of my gun when it could be exposed to an unknown person on that side for additional security.

    Yes, it is "touching", but I don't know anyone that can draw a gun with their wrist, but it does keep others from attempting to do so.

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    Regular Member BrianB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Under this standard, nearly every LEO is guilty of brandishing. Many rest their hand on their firearm.
    Heck, don't stop there. If I had a dollar for every YouTube video I've seen where an officer drew his gun, or drew his gun and actually pointed in, under circumstances that would land you or me in prison, I'd be rich.

    Here's a really fun video where a uniformed officer briefly removes his sidearm from the holster and gets in a heated verbal confrontation with the undercover officers he "drew on". Somewhere around the 6 minute and 30 second mark it gets hot.

    Warning, lots of profanity, made somewhat amusing due to the Jersey accents.

    --Moderator deleted video, verbiage including F-bomb not suitable for OCDO--
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 01-02-2014 at 10:40 PM. Reason: Deleted video
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    And why don't police unions want steroid testing of its members? I wonder....

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bullseye View Post
    Another example of why it is best to avoid altercations while carrying. While the article states he "did not pull or threaten to use" the firearm, this guy could have subconsciously touched it without even thinking, resulting in the brandishing charge.

    Or, the gentleman have only been attempting to protect the firearm from being grabbed by the other party! Additionally, this is probably another example of why you should not provide statements to police w/o an attorney's advice.
    This story is quite skimpy on facts, and citing the hypotheses that he "could have subconsciously touched it" or that he was "attempting to protect the firearm from being grabbed" doesn't clarify what actually happened. What's missing is whether or not the citing officer simply took the complainant's word for the touching or if the complainant was there when the officer detained and cited the gentleman. Seems to me that in the absence of any corroborating statement by a third party, the cited gentleman should simply say "I never touched my firearm," and the burden of proof would rest on the complainant and officer.

    Of course, we here in the Commonwealth know all too well how some judges handle "brandishing" charges, so the outcome is not as cut and dried as some might think.

    Given all of that, I consciously keep my hand away from my sidearm. Since I wear it at the 3 o'clock position, if I need to start protecting its security, I will rest my forearm or elbow against it.
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    This story is quite skimpy on facts, and citing the hypotheses that he "could have subconsciously touched it" or that he was "attempting to protect the firearm from being grabbed" doesn't clarify what actually happened. What's missing is whether or not the citing officer simply took the complainant's word for the touching or if the complainant was there when the officer detained and cited the gentleman. Seems to me that in the absence of any corroborating statement by a third party, the cited gentleman should simply say "I never touched my firearm," and the burden of proof would rest on the complainant and officer.

    Of course, we here in the Commonwealth know all too well how some judges handle "brandishing" charges, so the outcome is not as cut and dried as some might think.

    Given all of that, I consciously keep my hand away from my sidearm. Since I wear it at the 3 o'clock position, if I need to start protecting its security, I will rest my forearm or elbow against it.
    James, you're right, very few facts so I'll guess.
    My guess is he did touch it either to keep it in place or otherwise. The cops got there and the other fellow complained.

    At this point the man with the gun did what so many do and what User warns against ....he tried to explain it and in the process it came out he did have his hand on it. Add in an anti cop which that area is chock full of, and you have the charges.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    His failure was NOT in touching his firearm.

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