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Thread: Robbery and Beating

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    Robbery and Beating

    One of my wife's tellers got an emergency telephone call. Her apartment was robbed and her 17yo was beaten. My question was, "Why didn't she have an equalizer that she was trained to use?"

    She lived in an upscale apartment complex, not in some thug-infested part of town.


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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    No one is ever completely void of the chance of being victimized, no matter where they live, how they dress, how nice they are to others, what they drive, what businesses they go to or what neighborhoods they stay in or out of. Be prepared, and be vigilant, always..
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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    One of my wife's tellers got an emergency telephone call. Her apartment was robbed and her 17yo was beaten. My question was, "Why didn't she have an equalizer that she was trained to use?"

    She lived in an upscale apartment complex, not in some thug-infested part of town.
    The thugs don't go "shopping" in the thug-infested part of town, because there's nothing worth stealing there. Pax...
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    Wow. It is amazing what folks key in on.

    The point of the post is NOT the upscale apartment complex. It is that the 17yo was left defenseless and was, therefore, beaten by a thug.

    Anyone want to focus on that?


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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Question is, will they change their defenses as a result. Doubt it. They're probably of the 'I'd rather be beaten than kill someone's baby daddy'.

    Did you ask?

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    Did I mention that there was an 18mo baby in the home?


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    Robbery and Beating

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Bwahaha! 17 y.o. in an exclusive elegant up-scale condominium apartment (a la Hyacinth Bucket in Keeping Up Appearances) or a downtown crib are different? Either we are equal or we are not!
    Who said they were different? Behaving like an ass for the hell of it?

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    Last edited by eye95; 01-03-2014 at 08:24 AM.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Are you preaching to the choir? Or do you really want to know why they didn't? Or is there a law that prevents them from doing so?


    My condolences go out to the family that had to experience that.

    But there are way too many unanswered questions.


    Also in my experience, random break ins are not that common especially when there is a late teenage boy living in the home. They may have been targeted for one reason or another.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    If the 17 yo had been armed (w/firearm) and used it in SD situation the 18 mo being present would have been icing on the "justification cake." Anyway, the answer to the "why" question resides in the mind of the adult and not the 17 yo. In MO, and SC, the use of a pistol by a "child" is not unlawful in the home when engaged in justifiable SD. Does AL have a similar exemption(s) for "children?"

    It seems, if I recall correctly, that this crime occurred in AL since your Dear Wife remains in AL. Please correct if I am in error. How has this unfortunate incident affected your Dear Wife?

    Levity follows:

    Or, is she of a like mind and desiring to say "See, I told ya so." (Women like to use that. I get that a lot, and my Dear Wife relishes every opportunity, but I digress.)

    "You should have listened to me, and eye, Hon, and taken proper precautions.....poor thing." "I'll bring a casserole."

    Levity ends.

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    Yes. Alabama. I do not have an update as the teller has taken some time off.

    BTW, based on an above post, I realize I may not have been clear. The 17yo was a girl, not a boy.

    I agree that the problem is that Mom left her children defenseless.


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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Oh home alone? I should have gathered that from the teller got an emergency call, I missed that.

    I don't fault anyone for leaving young ones alone who can take care of themselves.

    Hopefully this family will use this as a life lesson that self defense is very personal, and that to rely on public safety or someone else to defend themselves is like not being defended at all.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    ISTM you don't have enough information. Sounds like a crime of violence over burglary. Perhaps the 17 y.o. knew the person (and thus couldn't have shot them). How did the guy get in? What was taken? Did her injuries require an ER visit?

    One could argue that leaving a 17 yo alone with a gun is a good way to =make= them a target, a good way to get -her- shot.

    The 'answer' is more about being secure inside the apartment, not taking action once it's breached.
    Last edited by Maverick9; 01-03-2014 at 08:52 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Oh home alone? I should have gathered that from the teller got an emergency call, I missed that.

    I don't fault anyone for leaving young ones alone who can take care of themselves.

    Hopefully this family will use this as a life lesson that self defense is very personal, and that to rely on public safety or someone else to defend themselves is like not being defended at all.
    That was the intent behind the OP. I was lamenting upon the likely mindset that allowed this tragedy (of a magnitude we yet don't know).


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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Yes. Alabama. I do not have an update as the teller has taken some time off.

    BTW, based on an above post, I realize I may not have been clear. The 17yo was a girl, not a boy.

    I agree that the problem is that Mom left her children defenseless.
    The "why didn't she have a....." statement clearly indicated to me that the child was a girl. But, from a legal standpoint and in a SD situation I try to focus on the "citizen vs. thug" instead of "girl or boy vs. thug" aspect. There have been a few threads here where the girl was determined in her SD of she and her younger siblings.

    Without a doubt the 17 yo child should have had access to a pistol. Now, whether or now she could have used it in SD is another, and different question.

    This topic is very interesting to me and the singular facts of this unfortunate incident would be very interesting to discuss. I may very well use the lessons learned from this unfortunate incident to further prepare my 15 yo son and his younger brother. Heck, this would even be of benefit to me and my Dear Wife.

    Please provide further details if and when appropriate.

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Come ON, guys. The epic fail is letting the guy get in the apartment, NOT about having firearms. If he can't get in (heavier door, better locks, door handle jam bar) he can't do harm. IF he gets in, EVEN if the occupant is armed, it's still no guarantee.

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Come ON, guys. The epic fail is letting the guy get in the apartment, NOT about having firearms. If he can't get in (heavier door, better locks, door handle jam bar) he can't do harm. IF he gets in, EVEN if the occupant is armed, it's still no guarantee.
    This is sarcasm, right? ... What percentage of people, let alone apartment complexes, install windows with impact-resistant glass? I don't care if your door is 4 inch thick solid steel with a 2 inch solid steel door jam, every house and every apartment has windows* and almost none of them will resist the impact of even a foot being propelled into it.

    A piece of lead propelled through the air at super-sonic speeds into a BG's chest is what will stop him, not a little bit heavier of a a door and door jam, which in an apartment complex you probably wouldn't be able to install anyway.

    Obviously not all, but the number that don't is small enough to be inconsequential.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 01-03-2014 at 09:13 AM.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I looked into creating and marketing security doors, because almost all doors we have now will fail to a well placed kick.

    In my experience guess who don't like that idea and for what rationalizations?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I looked into creating and marketing security doors, because almost all doors we have now will fail to a well placed kick.

    In my experience guess who don't like that idea and for what rationalizations?
    The door being considered the solution is part of the mindset that we need to cower from BGs. I choose to live my life, and that means taking reasonable risks and making reasonable preparations.


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    --snipped--
    This is taken of land enclosed by the house plan - https://vimeo.com/5042558 - within ten feet of the bedroom window but from the hot tub deck. We have raised thirteen kits in seven years.
    Off topic question re video (which was very soothing BTW) are the fox red or grey? Appear to be a hybred cross.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

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    A good, high quality ($$$) front door and subsidiary doors are good selling points. Those who choose to cower with a [cell] phone vs. a pistol buy houses too. My daddy's house, which was my Granddaddy's house, and one more back beyond that, did not have locks. Just a couple sets of 'U' shaped brackets for each exterior door and a wooden "bar." Never did see a wooden bar by any door when i was growing up, so, the doors were always "unlocked."

    What everbody knew in those parts that there was a shotgun by every nightstand and everybody knew everybody else and what their business was.

    I thank God, every day, for growing up in a really small Southern town. Sucks now that I am older. Old folks seem to think I looked cuter back then than I do now, they do have a point, and therefore must show everybody what I looked like when I was knee high to a.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Off topic question re video (which was very soothing BTW) are the fox red or grey? Appear to be a hybred cross.
    Please do not drag this thread off-topic as we have zero recourse when the staff do things like this. You can PM him this question or start another thread.


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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Please do not drag this thread off-topic as we have zero recourse when the staff do things like this. You can PM him this question or start another thread.
    If you want an answer to your query in the OP, you'll have to ask the teller whose son was attacked. All else here is thread drift.

    Also seldom criticize a poster/user for a momentary/brief aside.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 01-03-2014 at 10:11 AM.
    Better to not open your mouth and be thought the fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    ...Also seldom criticize a poster/user for a momentary/brief aside.
    Hmmm....Tell that to Augustin who was chastised for a single off-topic post--no further off-topic than yours.

    PS, I tried to move on, but you deleted that.

    Moving on again, assuming this is allowed to stand.


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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Yes. Alabama. I do not have an update as the teller has taken some time off.

    BTW, based on an above post, I realize I may not have been clear. The 17yo was a girl, not a boy.

    I agree that the problem is that Mom left her children defenseless.
    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    The "why didn't she have a....." statement clearly indicated to me that the child was a girl. <snip>
    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    If you want an answer to your query in the OP, you'll have to ask the teller whose son was attacked. All else here is thread drift.

    Also seldom criticize a poster/user for a momentary/brief aside.
    A little aside(s) are a good thing.....sometimes.

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    Campaign Veteran Running Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    One of my wife's tellers got an emergency telephone call. Her apartment was robbed and her 17yo was beaten. My question was, "Why didn't she have an equalizer that she was trained to use?"

    She lived in an upscale apartment complex, not in some thug-infested part of town.


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    I'd have to guess, since I don't personally know the people involved, that the 17 y.o. didn't have an equalizer because they lived in an upscale apartment complex. People are paying for the illusion of security and the peace-of-mind it brings.

    Trying to disillusion somebody is a losing proposition. I am able to remove the sand from no one's eyes but my own.
    When rights are outlawed only outlaws will have rights.

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