Robbery and Beating

Grapeshot said:

Off topic question re video (which was very soothing BTW) are the fox red or grey? Appear to be a hybred cross.

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Please do not drag this thread off-topic as we have zero recourse when the staff do things like this. You can PM him this question or start another thread.


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eye95 said:

Please do not drag this thread off-topic as we have zero recourse when the staff do things like this. You can PM him this question or start another thread.

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If you want an answer to your query in the OP, you'll have to ask the teller whose son was attacked. All else here is thread drift.

Also seldom criticize a poster/user for a momentary/brief aside.

Grapeshot said:

...Also seldom criticize a poster/user for a momentary/brief aside.

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Hmmm....Tell that to Augustin who was chastised for a single off-topic post--no further off-topic than yours.

PS, I tried to move on, but you deleted that.

Moving on again, assuming this is allowed to stand.


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eye95 said:

Yes. Alabama. I do not have an update as the teller has taken some time off.

BTW, based on an above post, I realize I may not have been clear. The 17yo was a girl, not a boy.

I agree that the problem is that Mom left her children defenseless.

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OC for ME said:

The "why didn't she have a....." statement clearly indicated to me that the child was a girl. <snip>

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Grapeshot said:

If you want an answer to your query in the OP, you'll have to ask the teller whose son was attacked. All else here is thread drift.

Also seldom criticize a poster/user for a momentary/brief aside.

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A little aside(s) are a good thing.....sometimes.

eye95 said:

One of my wife's tellers got an emergency telephone call. Her apartment was robbed and her 17yo was beaten. My question was, "Why didn't she have an equalizer that she was trained to use?"

She lived in an upscale apartment complex, not in some thug-infested part of town.


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I'd have to guess, since I don't personally know the people involved, that the 17 y.o. didn't have an equalizer because they lived in an upscale apartment complex. People are paying for the illusion of security and the peace-of-mind it brings.

Trying to disillusion somebody is a losing proposition. I am able to remove the sand from no one's eyes but my own.

Running Wolf said:

I'd have to guess, since I don't personally know the people involved, that the 17 y.o. didn't have an equalizer because they lived in an upscale apartment complex. People are paying for the illusion of security and the peace-of-mind it brings.

Trying to disillusion somebody is a losing proposition. I am able to remove the sand from no one's eyes but my own.

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Yes. That was the underlying reason for my mentioning the locale: the illusion of safety.

On edit: Thanks for returning the thread on-topic.

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I have this product on my front door (metal with solid wood core), which I think will buy some time. (split level, no ground floor windows) If the BG gets past this, it means they are ready to do harm to my family. I do have firearms accessible to my kids (19 yo girl, 16 yo boy). They are both familiar to proper safety, and handling. They know to dial 911 first, but are fully aware if the BG's get inside that they must be ready to shoot the second the door goes down.

Very impressed, especially for the price:
http://ezarmor.com/dt_catalog/ez-armor-combo-set/

eye95 said:

Yes. That was the underlying reason for my mentioning the locale: the illusion of safety.

On edit: Thanks for returning the thread on-topic.

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eye95

Very sorry to hear about your friend's tragic incident... I pray for a speedy recovery for the victim and a long horrible jail sentence for the thug...

Eye, did the victim know his attacker? Was this a random home invasion? Night/day?

Most folks simply go tho life not thinking these horrible incidents can happen to them or could occur in their neighborhood, therefore the lack of security measures... or they are content having some expensive security system installed... The facts are that we live in a violent,violent society and we should be on alert and prepared for the violence that thugs wish to bestow unto us....

Prayers and best regards!

CCJ

eye95 said:

One of my wife's tellers got an emergency telephone call. Her apartment was robbed and her 17yo was beaten. My question was, "Why didn't she have an equalizer that she was trained to use?"

She lived in an upscale apartment complex, not in some thug-infested part of town.


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Me thinks you're asking the wrong crowd!

JoeSparky said:

Me thinks you're asking the wrong crowd!

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Yea, don't think anybody here is of the opinion that she would be safe anywhere unless under armed guard. And most of us cannot afford armed guards, so we have to take that responsibility on ourselves. There are many ways to do that, even without a firearm. Even with a firearm there should be a safe place in the house. A closet with a strong door and a strong lock system would be one of those. In the old home we grew up in the walls were real plaster with wood lathing underneath, and we had solid doors. My dad lined one upstairs with another layer of plywood, put on a dead bolt, and stored the guns in that closet.

eye95 said:

The door being considered the solution is part of the mindset that we need to cower from BGs. I choose to live my life, and that means taking reasonable risks and making reasonable preparations.


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A strong defensive position isn't cowering, and to me that would include defending your castle with as strong as gates as possible. The longer it takes someone to get in the more chance you have to be prepared.

The doors would also slow down overzealous OREO's, those are the people who don't like them very much.

countryclubjoe said:

eye95

Very sorry to hear about your friend's tragic incident... I pray for a speedy recovery for the victim and a long horrible jail sentence for the thug...

Eye, did the victim know his attacker? Was this a random home invasion? Night/day?

Most folks simply go tho life not thinking these horrible incidents can happen to them or could occur in their neighborhood, therefore the lack of security measures... or they are content having some expensive security system installed... The facts are that we live in a violent,violent society and we should be on alert and prepared for the violence that thugs wish to bestow unto us....

Prayers and best regards!

CCJ

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Actually, I don't know these folks. The mother of the two girls works for my wife.

I don't know the status. Haven't gotten any updates. The mother has not yet been back to work.


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sudden valley gunner said:

A strong defensive position isn't cowering, and to me that would include defending your castle with as strong as gates as possible. The longer it takes someone to get in the more chance you have to be prepared.

The doors would also slow down overzealous OREO's, those are the people who don't like them very much.

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I don't have a problem with preparations. I was disputing that the lack of a firearm was not the problem. The poster was contending that the door itself was the problem. And, since the home was rented, there probably was not much choice about the door. There was choice about having a gun.

The poster blaming the door solely means he is a proponent of the mindset of cowering behind fortifications rather than favoring reasonable physical security with awareness and security tools.


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eye95 said:

I don't have a problem with preparations. I was disputing that the lack of a firearm was not the problem. The poster was contending that the door itself was the problem. And, since the home was rented, there probably was not much choice about the door. There was choice about having a gun.

The poster blaming the door solely means he is a proponent of the mindset of cowering behind fortifications rather than favoring reasonable physical security with awareness and security tools.


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Ok I misunderstood then since I was the one quoted, and I don't propose that mindset at all.

Gotcha.


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sudden valley gunner said:

I looked into creating and marketing security doors, because almost all doors we have now will fail to a well placed kick.

In my experience guess who don't like that idea and for what rationalizations?

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You'd best sell a whole house then. Most door frames will give in if the door does not.

While upgrading the door SHOULD give you a bit of extra time, if the frame cannot handle the weight of the door and the brute forces applied while breaking into a home then the upgraded door is almost pointless.

I believe that the base problem in security is in the way that the whole house is built.

Nightmare said:

LOL, a man's home is then not his castle without moat, drawbridge, and gatehouse portcullis. Our homes are houses and the law is our fortification into castle.

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Please edit to read "most men's houses." I built my house and door frames are easily reinforced. I recommend that all new construction home buyers spend the few dollars more to reinforce exterior door frames.

Freedom1Man said:

You'd best sell a whole house then. Most door frames will give in if the door does not.

While upgrading the door SHOULD give you a bit of extra time, if the frame cannot handle the weight of the door and the brute forces applied while breaking into a home then the upgraded door is almost pointless.

I believe that the base problem in security is in the way that the whole house is built.

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Yep we thought of thought and easily taken care of at the door area.

I build mostly new houses it really would only take minor adjustments for the door area to be more secure. Jack booted thugs and criminals would still be able to get in if they spent enough time. The idea is to make it a lot harder.

Nightmare said:

Ain't gonna happen with white pine or even light-gauge tin steel balloon construction while the BadGuy can use a SawzAll or cutting-wheel.

The lesson from our past is in the cowboy and indian movies, with the cowboys trapped and inside the indians' exterior lines.

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Yep my recommendation would be steal frame bolted in around the door.

Most houses have a way in, windows, skylights ares so easy 1/4 pocket driver and they are off.

The door seems to be the main point of an invasion type scenario, state sanctioned ones or not.

eye95 said:

I don't have a problem with preparations. I was disputing that the lack of a firearm was not the problem. The poster was contending that the door itself was the problem. And, since the home was rented, there probably was not much choice about the door. There was choice about having a gun.

The poster blaming the door solely means he is a proponent of the mindset of cowering behind fortifications rather than favoring reasonable physical security with awareness and security tools.

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I'm sad to see this commentary by the usually logical and sane Eye95.

First, we're talking about a 17 yo female not a grown person advocating cowering behind doors.

Second, once the BG is inside the house, is having a firearm on premises a 100% solution. I don't think so. You must put a tiny slug in the right place at the right time in a highly chaotic situation. It's best to employ a simple door handle jam to prevent anyone from easily coming in and gaining TIME. Then, with the time gain, the persons inside can employ cover and concealment and bring any lethal force to bear with some ability to prepare.

Why the OP needs to drag this into a shooting gallery solution using a 17 yo female as the operator escapes me. What's more psychically harmful, giving a 17 yo a firearm (perhaps without training) and say 'shoot any SB that tries to come in the house', or giving her a firearm AND a door handle jam bar and saying put this bar up when I leave. Call 911 if anyone tries to force their way in.

Evidently there wasn't even time to call 911, the 17 yo was not given a phone on 911 speed dial, and not given a method to delay entry. These are the two fail points.

All the OP has is disparaging commentary 'since you're a wussy, your idea is wrong'. Yeah, sure, whatever.