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Thread: Leos and the studying of the us constitution question..

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    Leos and the studying of the us constitution question..

    Hi Folks..

    Current LEO, ex LEO, if I may pose a question regarding the study of the US CONSTITUTION.

    While in the police academy and or your respective police training facility. How many hours of your training were dedicated to studying the US Constitution? Were you graded on your knowledge thereof? Did that knowledge or lack thereof affect grade scores, graduation, etc?

    Thank you in advance for your time and your reply's...

    Best regards.

    CCJ
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    2 weeks of class with 100ish question test on constitution all law. Same thing for criminal law. Con law focused on case law about searches seizures, when question has to stop, when you actually have made an arrest, public safety exemption, exigent circumstances, warrants, etc. Etc. List goes on.

    Edit for correct amount of class.

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    Last edited by Primus; 01-04-2014 at 02:22 PM.
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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    2 weeks of class with 100ish question test on constitution all law. Same thing for criminal law. Con law focused on case law about searches seizures, when question has to stop, when you actually have made an arrest, public safety exemption, exigent circumstances, warrants, etc. Etc. List goes on.

    Edit for correct amount of class.

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    Seems pretty clear the question was put to law enforcement officers. Why is Pinus responding?

    ETA: Oh, I see he didn't post that HE did 2 weeks of class. Maybe he THINKS police have 2 weeks of class. Sorry for jumping to the conclusion Primus had ever been to any class regarding law enforcement. His post are deceptive, and I know better than to take them at face value.
    Last edited by Fuller Malarkey; 01-04-2014 at 02:28 PM.
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuller Malarkey View Post
    Seems pretty clear the question was put to law enforcement officers. Why is Pinus responding?
    LOL, I wondered the same thing. I had 10 weeks at ISP Academy. I really don't remember how many hours were dedicated to the constitution, but case law mostly was based on the constitution, and law was probably half the course.

    ETA: What state has ONLY a two week course? I am sure it is not Mass. but again I will look.

    Recruit Officer Course Overview

    The Municipal Police Training Committee (MPTC), an agency of the Executive Office of Public Safety and Security (EOPSS), serves the Commonwealth by establishing standards and providing training to full and part-time police officers throughout the Commonwealth. The scope of this training ranges from an intense, 800-hour/20-week basic training program for full-time entry-level municipal, University of Massachusetts, and Environmental Police officers. Reserve (part-time) police officers of municipal, University of Massachusetts, and Environmental Police receive a 315-hour (335 hours if armed) entry-level training program administered by regional police training organizations under contract with the MPTC at various locations throughout the Commonwealth. Recruit Officer Courses are also open to new officers from agencies outside of the MPTC’s mandate on a space-available basis. The MPTC also approves recruit academies run by municipal police departments statewide.



    Can somebody say BUSTED?
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-04-2014 at 02:33 PM.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    LOL, I wondered the same thing. I had 10 weeks at ISP Academy. I really don't remember how many hours were dedicated to the constitution, but case law mostly was based on the constitution, and law was probably half the course.

    ETA: What state has ONLY a two week course? I am sure it is not Mass. but again I will look.

    Recruit Officer Course Overview

    The Municipal Police Training Committee (MPTC), an agency of the Executive Office of Public Safety and Security (EOPSS), serves the Commonwealth by establishing standards and providing training to full and part-time police officers throughout the Commonwealth. The scope of this training ranges from an intense, 800-hour/20-week basic training program for full-time entry-level municipal, University of Massachusetts, and Environmental Police officers. Reserve (part-time) police officers of municipal, University of Massachusetts, and Environmental Police receive a 315-hour (335 hours if armed) entry-level training program administered by regional police training organizations under contract with the MPTC at various locations throughout the Commonwealth. Recruit Officer Courses are also open to new officers from agencies outside of the MPTC’s mandate on a space-available basis. The MPTC also approves recruit academies run by municipal police departments statewide.



    Can somebody say BUSTED?
    Lol ww your really this desperate?

    Read the question... it asks "how many hours studying the US CONSTITUTION". It wasn't asking how many total hrs of the academy.

    Lol I'm actually laughing right now at how hard your trying.

    Ccj I apologize for the fools that follow me around. I understand your focus of the thread was supposed to be on leos knowing con law. I tried being helpful but its tough when you get harassed.

    Yes I just used fools as a bash.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Nice try but no cigar, you said that you had two weeks of training, IMO you did not state you had two weeks of constitutional law training. Otherwise you would have clearly said so. YOU ARE BUSTED!
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Nice try but no cigar, you said that you had two weeks of training, IMO you did not state you had two weeks of constitutional law training. Otherwise you would have clearly said so. YOU ARE BUSTED!
    Ww I hope your investigation skills were better this back in the day.

    The OP asked a very SPECIFIC question. So specific that it has US CONSTITUTION in bold AND reiterates US constitution again and asks about tests on said subject. So he got a specific answer back. A week of firearms and a weeks of evoc wouldn't be relevant nor any other subjects we studied.

    So on that note I won't derail this thread anymore then you already did.

    To the OP I apologize for even participating in that thread drift.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Ww I hope your investigation skills were better this back in the day.

    The OP asked a very SPECIFIC question. So specific that it has US CONSTITUTION in bold AND reiterates US constitution again and asks about tests on said subject. So he got a specific answer back. A week of firearms and a weeks of evoc wouldn't be relevant nor any other subjects we studied.

    So on that note I won't derail this thread anymore then you already did.

    To the OP I apologize for even participating in that thread drift.

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    Even if I bought you trying to wiggle out of your post, it is highly unlikely in a 20 week course that only 80 hours were dedicated to case law. This is like all of your other claims that fall WAY short of making sense.

    YOU ARE BUSTED!
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    My vote is with WW

    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Ww I hope your investigation skills were better this back in the day.

    The OP asked a very SPECIFIC question. So specific that it has US CONSTITUTION in bold AND reiterates US constitution again and asks about tests on said subject. So he got a specific answer back. A week of firearms and a weeks of evoc wouldn't be relevant nor any other subjects we studied.

    So on that note I won't derail this thread anymore then you already did.

    To the OP I apologize for even participating in that thread drift.

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    WalkingWolf gets my vote on this. Keep up the good work, WW

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Ww I hope your investigation skills were better this back in the day.

    The OP asked a very SPECIFIC question. So specific that it has US CONSTITUTION in bold AND reiterates US constitution again and asks about tests on said subject. So he got a specific answer back. A week of firearms and a weeks of evoc wouldn't be relevant nor any other subjects we studied.

    So on that note I won't derail this thread anymore then you already did.

    To the OP I apologize for even participating in that thread drift.

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    Isn't it fair to say you are .....thread drift?
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post


    Even if I bought you trying to wiggle out of your post, it is highly unlikely in a 20 week course that only 80 hours were dedicated to case law. This is like all of your other claims that fall WAY short of making sense.

    YOU ARE BUSTED!
    So be ww you can disbelieve anything you want. Last I checked this thread was started with a specific idea in mind.

    as always I really don't care if you believe me. Its 2 weeks whether you think its true or not. I am who I am and do what I do regardless of how much you harass and hound. Your completely irrelevant just like me. The only difference is your trying so hard to disprove me and I'm letting you make yourself look like an ass.

    And that's that.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    So be ww you can disbelieve anything you want. Last I checked this thread was started with a specific idea in mind.

    as always I really don't care if you believe me. Its 2 weeks whether you think its true or not. I am who I am and do what I do regardless of how much you harass and hound. Your completely irrelevant just like me. The only difference is your trying so hard to disprove me and I'm letting you make yourself look like an ass.

    And that's that.

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    You keep posting that you are a LEO, and your posts do not bear fruit to that. They have not since you showed up on the scene here. It is relevant to the thread because you are deceiving those that do not know. Again almost all police work is littered with case law, you have had a clear problem with knowing it. You do not provide cites to your claims only claims and when you do get lucky somebody else provides the cite FOR YOU.

    I am glad you don't care, because IMO you have done a disservice to good police officers by trying to pose. With your credibility I really am not worried by more insults from you. In fact it is a badge of honor to expose another internet poser. Being ass is a compliment, much better than being a phony.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-04-2014 at 03:17 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Leos and the studying of the us constitution question..

    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    2 weeks of class with 100ish question test on constitution all law. Same thing for criminal law. Con law focused on case law about searches seizures, when question has to stop, when you actually have made an arrest, public safety exemption, exigent circumstances, warrants, etc. Etc. List goes on.

    Edit for correct amount of class.

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    In context of being the first reply to direct question, this post is CLEARLY saying that cops get two weeks of constitutional law training.

    I don't know how true this information is, but those who are characterizing this answer as anything other than the direct answer to the direct question in the first post about how much time LEOs get in constitutional law training is being dishonest and should be ashamed of their behavior.

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    Last edited by eye95; 01-04-2014 at 03:59 PM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Did not say which constitution ... state, federal, russian ...

    Not much you can cover in 2 weeks anyways ...
    In 20 weeks(800 hours) only 80 hours on law and case law. Maybe in the military but Mass is a educational state, not a chance that only 80 hours on the law. AND only ONE test!

    And remember that test was ONLY 100 questions. He claimed.

    BUSTED!
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-04-2014 at 04:10 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Y'all do know what they call the candidate graduating at the bottom of the class, officer. That's same as medical school graduating doctors.

    When I graduated in the middle of my military professional school in 1970, it bragged that it passed only the 'finest' of candidates, with a significant failure rate. As my public shipyard, where I spent my career, was being downsized, one of our last big projects was the Moored Training Ships and their support infrastructure, so I got to know some of the instructors. One characterized the new school as a mud-pump that would pass even a bag-of-rocks.

    Of course in nuclear power, unlike law enforcement, taxpayer money is no object, and no obstacle. I believe that the USN NNPP is near TEN-THOUSAND reactor-years of safe operation.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    To clarify that's just on constitutional law. There are 3 law tests. Con law, criminal law (state law) and motor vehicle law (chapter 90). Those are the three "big tests". Then there's numerous other shorter tests on various other specialty subjects. Sexual assault, domestic violence, firearms, evoc, DT, court systems, etc.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Snip~~"2 weeks of class with 100ish question test on constitution all law."

    And now in 20 weeks you are claiming ONLY 3 tests on law!
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 01-04-2014 at 04:21 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    To clarify that's just on constitutional law. There are 3 law tests. Con law, criminal law (state law) and motor vehicle law (chapter 90). Those are the three "big tests". Then there's numerous other shorter tests on various other specialty subjects. Sexual assault, domestic violence, firearms, evoc, DT, court systems, etc.

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    No point in going on. You are going to be called a liar by some in this thread no matter how you respond. You have answered the question. Time to let this thread go.

    You have advocated thuggish cop behavior on this board, and that I cannot abide. However, you have been forthright and adult almost exclusively, and that gains my respect. The way some have acted toward you here is inexcusable. They do not paint RKBA advocates in a good light.


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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    To clarify that's just on constitutional law. There are 3 law tests. Con law, criminal law (state law) and motor vehicle law (chapter 90). Those are the three "big tests". Then there's numerous other shorter tests on various other specialty subjects. Sexual assault, domestic violence, firearms, evoc, DT, court systems, etc.

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    Primus, you need to stop reacting to those few on here that are sitting there ready to pounce on your every word, who mis-characterize your statements and who take every opportunity to disparage you. This bickering and character assassination is doing nothing to promote an understanding between law-abiding citizens who carry and the LEOs who are trying to make a difference. It is obvious that you are not going to change their biases and, by responding, you are just feeding their animus. You can't win them over, stop trying, their minds are closed.
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    Good advice. Ignore everyone but correspondents, http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/correspondent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Primus, you need to stop reacting to those few on here that are sitting there ready to pounce on your every word, who mis-characterize your statements and who take every opportunity to disparage you. This bickering and character assassination is doing nothing to promote an understanding between law-abiding citizens who carry and the LEOs who are trying to make a difference. It is obvious that you are not going to change their biases and, by responding, you are just feeding their animus. You can't win them over, stop trying, their minds are closed.
    This.

    In line with a post I addressed to you in another thread: Primus, this is another poster you might trust.


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    Of course, the min. education is a HS education .. so any "law" being discussed will be on a HS level.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I had a better grasp of the constitution in grade school than a couple do on here. I find it disconcerting when a active LEO consistently does not know what he is talking about.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Regular Member mdak06's Avatar
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    As someone who only visits the OCDO boards sporadically, I'd just like to say - threads that have discussions like this are part of the reason I'm not here more often. I get into this thread, and I see:

    (1) countryclubjoe asks a reasonable question about police training to current/former LEO's ... followed by:
    (2) Primus appearing to give a direct response to the question asked ... followed by:
    (3) the entire conversation disintegrating as WalkingWolf and Fuller Malarkey attack Primus and appear to be nothing more than obnoxious jerks.

    I'll fully admit I don't know the history of what's previously been said on these boards between the characters involved. I'll also say that I really don't CARE what the history is, because if all I'm going to get by coming here is two disrespectful people attacking another person - one who actually appeared to post an on-topic response to the original post - why should I bother coming here? It's not worth my time.

    I don't know if this forum has, as one of its goals, a desire to attract others to the open carry movement. But if it does, this thread is a miserable failure towards that goal. All I see is petty bickering, most of it directed at one person who actually responded properly to the original post. I cannot imagine that most people who stumble onto OCDO for the first time are going to want to come back if this is the first thread they see.

    WW and FM basically destroyed this thread by acting like 12-year olds. If this is the best the open carry movement has to offer, it's really disheartening.

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    Excellent analysis. We need more discerning folks like you posting here. I wish you'd stay. I disagree a lot with what Primus says, but at least he posts in an adult, honest, and rational way, despite the constant juvenile attacks he encounters here.


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