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Leos and the studying of the us constitution question..

C

Citizen

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Fairfax Co., VA
Fellas,

Lets not forget "the loopholes." (In quotes because freedom is not a loophole.)

While cop trainee's may spend "x" amount of time on the Fourth and Fifth Amendment law, what do you wanta bet there is plenty of time spent with a field training officer teaching loopholes and how to use them?

For example, the tactic we've seen time and time and time again of phrasing a demand as a request, but using a demanding tone. Or, badgering someone who exercises their right against self-incrimination. Or, just demanding an identity document without authority. Or,...
 
WalkingWolf

WalkingWolf

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Studying the bill of rights is not all time consuming, studying it with relation to aspects of law and police work IS. It involves almost every aspect of police work, and is part of everything from stops to use of force. It is, and should be a considerable part of basic law enforcement training. The claim it is only 10 percent of the course is laughable.
 
C

Citizen

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Messages
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Location
Fairfax Co., VA
I wonder where they teach them these two basics:

1. If you can't clearly identify your authority to yourself, you may not act.

2. (Paraphrase) No right is held more sacred or more carefully guarded by the common law than the right of all individuals to the possession and control of their own person unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford.
 
C

countryclubjoe

Regular Member
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Mar 3, 2013
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nj
WalkingWolf said:
Studying the bill of rights is not all time consuming, studying it with relation to aspects of law and police work IS. It involves almost every aspect of police work, and is part of everything from stops to use of force. It is, and should be a considerable part of basic law enforcement training. The claim it is only 10 percent of the course is laughable.
Click to expand...

Hi WW

I am also thinking that police academy's are not in the Constitutionality business therefore they may simply concentrate on specific Amendments.
IE, 4th 5th and 14th... Maybe the 2A in States that are pro 2nd... In my anti state, I am guessing that the 2A is not a major topic of study and probably considered a waste of time. Therefore the oath that they swear to uphold seems insincere..

My .02

Thank you for your reply and best regards.

CCJ
 
J

JoeSparky

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Location
Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
countryclubjoe said:
Hi WW

I am also thinking that police academy's are not in the Constitutionality business therefore they may simply concentrate on specific Amendments.
IE, 4th 5th and 14th... Maybe the 2A in States that are pro 2nd... In my anti state, I am guessing that the 2A is not a major topic of study and probably considered a waste of time. Therefore the oath that they swear to uphold seems insincere..

My .02

Thank you for your reply and best regards.

CCJ
Click to expand...

Guessing that OC isn't even covered in MOST based upon the issues that have been documented on this forum and some others with certain agents of the state who don't have a clue about it.
 
OldCurlyWolf

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Ours was mostly Penal Code, Uniform Act(Traffic, etc) and Code of Civil Procedure (Evidence with some 4th Amendment and separating Civil and Criminal law).

Very little constitutional stuff. I studied that on my own.
 
Freedom1Man

Freedom1Man

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When "case law" is passed off as "constitutional law," it means that there is no real training anymore.

I am/was friends with an old Baltimore Police officer and he was telling about how that back when he was trained he was told that he could not stop and randomly search people, speeding tickets were conditionally bases, they did not do no-know warrants, etc and that he had never been shot at even when arresting some hard bad guys.

He 'got out' in some where in the 70's I believe.
 
OC for ME

OC for ME

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WalkingWolf said:
Studying the bill of rights is not all time consuming, studying it with relation to aspects of law and police work IS. It involves almost every aspect of police work, and is part of everything from stops to use of force. It is, and should be a considerable part of basic law enforcement training. The claim it is only 10 percent of the course is laughable.
Click to expand...
The life, liberty, and property thing is a major downer for a cop. "Without probable cause" is replaced by RAS, and reasonable is defined by cops via the courts.

Bummer for the citizenry.
 
C

countryclubjoe

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OC for ME said:
The life, liberty, and property thing is a major downer for a cop. "Without probable cause" is replaced by RAS, and reasonable is defined by cops via the courts.

Bummer for the citizenry.
Click to expand...
YES I CONCUR.

Hi OC

" It must always be remembered that what the Constitution forbids is not all searches and seizures, but UNREASONABLE searches and seizures."

Cite- Potter Stewart, majority opinion, Elkins v United States. (1960)..

Best regards

CCJ
 
Last edited:
OC for ME

OC for ME

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countryclubjoe said:
YES I CONCUR.

Hi OC

" It must always be remembered that what the Constitution forbids is not all searches and seizures, but UNREASONABLE searches and seizures."

Cite- Potter Stewart, majority opinion, Elkins v United States. (1960)..

Best regards

CCJ
Click to expand...
Partially correct.

Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Click to expand...
The courts have handed LE every thing they need to violate the 4A at any time they choose and without any meaningful consequences when they violate not only the letter of the law but also the spirit of the law.

Terry is the case that destroyed the 4A. Since Terry it has been the courts task to apply the 4A when it merits being applied to the worthy citizen. The 4A is a privilege, not a right, at this point in our history.
 
sudden valley gunner

sudden valley gunner

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Whatcom County
OC for ME said:
Partially correct.

The courts have handed LE every thing they need to violate the 4A at any time they choose and without any meaningful consequences when they violate not only the letter of the law but also the spirit of the law.

Terry is the case that destroyed the 4A. Since Terry it has been the courts task to apply the 4A when it merits being applied to the worthy citizen. The 4A is a privilege, not a right, at this point in our history.
Click to expand...

+1
 
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