Primus
Regular Member
First, I'm not your boy. Second, of COURSE you missed the handgunlaw.us cite....
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pulled over by a policeman
- Thread starter coyote223
- Start date
First, I'm not your boy. Second, of COURSE you missed the handgunlaw.us cite....
Primus
Regular Member
ANYONE ELSE SEE THIS CITE.
HOW ABOUT THE PART AT THE BOTTOM THAT SAYS CANT FIND THE STATUTE.
Yet I'm obtuse......I again, agree with Falls, unless its out of the statute then I wouldn't take it either. Hence the reason me asking if its from the state police.
Primus
Regular Member
Is handgunlaw.us a valid cite for you?
Maverick9
Regular Member
That site is maintained by an individual and is not a legal document or a valid 'cite'. That would be something with a code.
HTH
Maverick9
Regular Member
That site is maintained by an individual and is not a legal document or a valid 'cite'. That would be something with a code.
The point is, policemen do not have 'rights'. Any 'law' which says something like 'a cop has a right to inspect' something is poorly worded and was probably written by a layperson, not a lawyer. It should say something like 'as provided in 123.45 of the Indiana Legal code, a permit must be produced on demand of a law enforcement official' or words to that effect. Backing by statue with proper definitions as to terms. Further a properly worded one might say 'a copy of the license is (or is not) permissible'. If it doesn't go on to talk about 'must show the handgun and the location of carry' or other nonsense, it's not a 'right', or a duty of citizen to provide such information. Is it an omission, maybe but too bad - no force of law.
HTH
JamesCanby
Activist Member
Is comprehension hard for you? Do you have a problem "connecting the dots?" If the law in Indiana and other states require that the permit holder produce his/her permit "upon demand of a police officer," what other "citation" do you think you need to show that the LEO has the right to demand disclosure? Are you that obtuse?
My comment about the inanity of the response was based more on the general input of that poster, but since you asked, my response was directed specifically at an implied refusal to reply to a LEO's demand for providing the permit. In later posts, I address the concept of not answering questions that are investigative rather than responding to legal demands.
Your inference that I "feel the need to protect the profession of law enforcement" is laughable. What I *do* feel is the need to treat other people as equals, LEOs included, until and unless their words or actions cause me to lose respect for them ... as is the case with you.
Moving on.
Fuller Malarkey
Regular Member
Probably best you do move on as you have displayed an inability to work within the parameters of a contention YOU laid out. Words have meaning, and I am somewhat surprised I'd have to tell that to someone that has set themselves up to be an instructor, something that requires properly applied words to convey the correct information.
Fuller Malarkey
Regular Member
You've been owned so many times on this forum you are everybody's "boy".
JamesCanby
Activist Member
No, I'm moving on because I find it an utter waste of time conversing with such a biased and closed mind.
Fuller Malarkey
Regular Member
I'm not closed to anything, nor can you produce anything that indicates I am. You've gone for the ad hominem attack, about what I would expect from someone giving in to their compulsive need to be right, and are stuck like a deer in the headlights. And you blame the headlights, not your choices. NOT sound thinking by someone that supposedly instructs others on making critical choices.
Fallschirjmäger
Active member
No, sir.
At a minimum, a citation to the law will be a link to the applicable law from a site maintained by said State Legislature, or a link to an independent organization such as FindLaw.Com. In either case, a valid citation must include the Chapter and paragraph of the law being cited.
Primus
Regular Member
Got it. I'm actually coming to the conclusion its just pulled from the firearms FAQS on the state website. Obviously that isn't a chapter and section so I have no idea where they get out from. I eve checked the other chapters to see if it was under administrative stuff but found nothing. I think I'm going to shoot them an email today and ask them for a cite. I'll see what I get and post. I saw another poster in this thread pop up and say the same thing but not sure where he got his info from either. Wonder if its one of those urban legends lol
Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
Fallschirjmäger
Active member
:dude:
We, as humans are inclined to take what we know and try to fit that knowledge to unknown situations, (if every book you've read in your life opens right to left you're going to assume the next book you pick up does the same until you find yourself in a country that reads right to left instead of left to right.)
Just sent an inquiry to isp@isp.in.gov
Dear Indiana State Police
Is there a section of the Indiana Code that requires me to
a) Inform an officer that I am armed, or
b) Produce my firearms license upon an officer’s demand?
Yrfthflsrvnt
[Fallschirmjäger]
We, as humans are inclined to take what we know and try to fit that knowledge to unknown situations, (if every book you've read in your life opens right to left you're going to assume the next book you pick up does the same until you find yourself in a country that reads right to left instead of left to right.)
Just sent an inquiry to isp@isp.in.gov
Dear Indiana State Police
Is there a section of the Indiana Code that requires me to
a) Inform an officer that I am armed, or
b) Produce my firearms license upon an officer’s demand?
Yrfthflsrvnt
[Fallschirmjäger]
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Fuller Malarkey
Regular Member
They [ISP] don't answer the phone, at least today. The recording indicates that due to the weather, only essential personnel are in today. Might be a bit before a response surfaces.
Fallschirjmäger
Active member
To be quite honest, I'll be surprised if I do get a response. Most agencies (and most companies) seem to be reticent to admit things when they are not as the agency/company wishes. There's no penalty to the ISP for just ignoring the email.
MrOverlay
Regular Member
I always find it amazing that after the initial contact with an individual, the LEO feels it necessary to tell them to not touch their firearm, or leave it where it is, or even worse give it to the LEO for safe keeping.
Apparently they don't realize that if the individual has bad intent, it would most likely already be exhibited by that time.
Apparently they don't realize that if the individual has bad intent, it would most likely already be exhibited by that time.
Fuller Malarkey
Regular Member
I'd like to voice my appreciation to you for the effort you've put into researching this and the sharing of your insights. While I dislike some aspects of this site, there are people here that seem to thrive on seeking out the truth. In those quests, they bring their discoveries here and test them for water tightness through discussion. I find Falls to be one of those. You've gained some skills in truth seeking and I am richer for your sharing your findings here. Thank you.
Maverick9
Regular Member
It's called 'goading' and is a favorite tactic. For some it's a type of passive aggression, giving instructions which they know aren't going to be challenged, showing they can 'rule'. It beats stopping and arrest really dangerous criminals.
When you think a LEO is not familiar with the law, or is asking things he knows very well he can't require, he's really trying to escalate the situation. He actually knows the law quite well. He knows he's got a LAC and he's not very likely to get challenged, but he thinks he might be able to make an arrest if he gets the person riled up. Witness cops who break the driver's window and pull a hapless black woman out into the street due to an equipment violation. You'd think he was arresting a mafia kingpin strapped with C4.
[video=youtube;S4K5Lr0y7Pw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4K5Lr0y7Pw[/video]
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Fallschirjmäger
Active member
I once had an occasion where I tried the "I'ma not goin' t' roll my window all the way down" thing. I decided it was just me being passively aggressive and it's not something you're going to win on the side of the road. The whole "officer safety" thing rolls into this and he can claim a window partially opened so that he can't lean inside is dangerous just as easily as he can claim that a fully opened widow in an invitation to him being entrapped in the window frame. Same with exiting your car, it's dangerous if you do it, it's required if he commands you to do the same thing, both all in the name of "officer safety."
Best tactic? Be Ned Flanders, give him a friendly, "Oklie Doaklie, Neighboroonie" and if he says, "don't touch your gun" just agree and give him a friendly, "No worries; won't touch it, even if someone starts shooting and hits you."
Best tactic? Be Ned Flanders, give him a friendly, "Oklie Doaklie, Neighboroonie" and if he says, "don't touch your gun" just agree and give him a friendly, "No worries; won't touch it, even if someone starts shooting and hits you."
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
I hope the officer is charged and prosecuted, but probably will not be. He should get the maximum sentence for abusing his privileges. He could have easily handed the citation through the window, and his fingers(not arm) were only in the window because he was breaking the window. What a jack ass!