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Thread: Jury to decide fate of CWL holder who killed. Unreasonable deadly force in fisticuffs

  1. #1
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    Jury to decide fate of CWL holder who killed. Unreasonable deadly force in fisticuffs

    "He said Banks, 26, had hit him, knocked him to the ground, kicked him and pulled his jacket up over his head. He said he felt handicapped and put his hand on his holstered gun for fear Banks would take it. Then as he returned to his feet, Green said, he just "put it up and shot." In closing arguments, Assistant District Attorney Grant Huebner told jurors Green "wasn't protecting his life, he was firing back in anger." Even though Banks was the aggressor, Huebner said, it was unreasonable for Green to use deadly force in what was clearly "a fist fight."

    Green's attorney, Dennis Coffey, told jurors that his client had no obligation to retreat and acted in clear self-defense. Green did not exhibit "utter disregard for human life" because he fired only once, stayed on the scene, called police and cooperated fully, Coffey argued. Green acted like "good citizen," Coffey said, "who did the right thing."

    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/239164481.html

    "Huebner asked why Green even had the gun that night. He said he always wears it if he's going out alone. Huebner pointed out he wasn't alone, and Green said he left the gun in his car when the group met at the first of two taverns where they stopped. He said that when the group then consolidated to one of the men's cars, he took the gun, not wanting to leave it in his car where it might get stolen."
    Last edited by Nightmare; 01-08-2014 at 01:34 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    "He said Banks, 26, had hit him, knocked him to the ground, kicked him and pulled his jacket up over his head. He said he felt handicapped and put his hand on his holstered gun for fear Banks would take it. Then as he returned to his feet, Green said, he just "put it up and shot." In closing arguments, Assistant District Attorney Grant Huebner told jurors Green "wasn't protecting his life, he was firing back in anger." Even though Banks was the aggressor, Huebner said, it was unreasonable for Green to use deadly force in what was clearly "a fist fight."

    Green's attorney, Dennis Coffey, told jurors that his client had no obligation to retreat and acted in clear self-defense. Green did not exhibit "utter disregard for human life" because he fired only once, stayed on the scene, called police and cooperated fully, Coffey argued. Green acted like "good citizen," Coffey said, "who did the right thing."

    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/239164481.html

    "Huebner asked why Green even had the gun that night. He said he always wears it if he's going out alone. Huebner pointed out he wasn't alone, and Green said he left the gun in his car when the group met at the first of two taverns where they stopped. He said that when the group then consolidated to one of the men's cars, he took the gun, not wanting to leave it in his car where it might get stolen."
    Seems like the DA has never heard about people dieing in "fist fights". Although, as holders of weapons we are supposed to not get involved in sitituations like this. Sometimes one cannot just get out of the sitituation. I don't know the whole story. So I'll back on out of here.

    JJC
    Last edited by JJC; 01-08-2014 at 01:56 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran Running Wolf's Avatar
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    Based on the information provided in the article, I side with the shooter. Not that my opinion matters in this case.
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    Assistant District Attorney Grant Huebner told jurors Green "wasn't protecting his life, he was firing back in anger."
    How does he know? Is he God? No. The reason he said that is because he want's to disarm Green. But since I wasn't at the trial to get the details...
    Huebner asked why Green even had the gun that night.
    Duuuh. Green should answered, why do you Mr DA carry a gun on your hip too. Huebner also asked Green why, in a recorded interview with detectives soon after the shooting, he estimated Banks was more like eight feet away and didn't say Banks was coming at him when he fired. That is not a big distance! 21 feet in 6 seconds!

    here had been no arguments among the four during earlier stops at two taverns, they said, though one testified that Banks had wondered why a mutual friend had invited Green along, knowing that Banks didn't like him. AAH!
    This whole thing sounds like the Zimmerman case.

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    "why were you carrying?" A stupid question to ask ... and one that needs no answer IMO.

    Why do you vote? Why do you use your speech to address legislative issues?

    Why? Because your an American.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    "why were you carrying?" A stupid question to ask ... and one that needs no answer IMO.

    Why do you vote? Why do you use your speech to address legislative issues?

    Why? Because your an American.
    Yeah that was a stupid question to ask. Intent: "If you hadn't carried, stupid, you wouldn't be getting prosecuted." Lesson to us CCLers/Intimidation: "It don't matter what the circumstances, you are guilty and I'll make sure it looks like it even if you are innocent, just bec you are carrying a gun which I don't believe citizens should have!" It's only for myself and the cops and the military!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Law abider View Post
    Assistant District Attorney Grant Huebner told jurors Green "wasn't protecting his life, he was firing back in anger."
    How does he know? Is he God? No. .
    He don't know .. he's making a legal conclusion ... an objection should have been made IMO but this is up to his lawyer to jump on this if he wants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    He don't know .. he's making a legal conclusion ... an objection should have been made IMO but this is up to his lawyer to jump on this if he wants.
    YEP. His lawyer should have done that.

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    Jury convicts Milwaukee concealed-carry permit holder in fatal shooting

    This linked article is just an update of the original.

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/j...239316951.html

    About the hypothetical objections, nyaah, no grounds, else cite the grounds from some textbook

    http://criminaldefense.homestead.com...bjections.html
    Last edited by Nightmare; 01-08-2014 at 04:57 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    This linked article is just an update of the original.

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/j...239316951.html

    About the hypothetical objections, nyaah, no grounds, else cite the grounds from some textbook

    http://criminaldefense.homestead.com...bjections.html
    Even though Banks was the aggressor, Huebner said, it was unreasonable for Green to use deadly force in what was clearly "a fist fight."

    So Green needed to get pummeled to death. I'd like to see what the DA would have done in the same situation. He is making Green into a criminal by stating that the deadly force was unreasonable. Green may not have had a chance to deescalate the situation which he did not start. There is an agenda to criminalize us CCL holders by this trial by the DA. Intent: Fear for your life you CCL holders. You shoot, you go to jail for the rest of your life. We don't need a textbook to quote 'legitimate' objections. It is all arbitrarily made up. I bet if a leo was in Green's position, he would be acquitted. Too many presumptuous accusations/conclusions by the DA. Sure in Milwaukee you could get a monkey from the local zoo for jury duty and it would pronounce a guilty verdict. Jury may have had a secret bias not revealed in selection. In Milwaukee, generally speaking, guns are deemed bad. You'll never get an impartial jury where the general population thinks this way.
    Last edited by Law abider; 01-08-2014 at 06:16 PM.

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    Jury found him guilty.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Didn't we just recently discuss on here that if someone punched you in the face you could shoot then in self defense? Wasn't the crowd screaming that punches can kill? Even just one punch?

    I distinctly remember it being about the knock out game or something that that affect.

    It doesn't work out so well in the real world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJC View Post
    Jury found him guilty.
    Why? Because juries are stupid for the most part .... taking a jury or bench trial??? When things are complicated, take the bench trial...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Didn't we just recently discuss on here that if someone punched you in the face you could shoot then in self defense? Wasn't the crowd screaming that punches can kill? Even just one punch?

    I distinctly remember it being about the knock out game or something that that affect.

    It doesn't work out so well in the real world.

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    Another brilliant comment that fails to distinguish failure on the part of the defense attorney. And, doesn't bother to discuss the exact points involved. For example, that shooting after a single punch that isn't being followed up is clearly not self-defense.

    Separately, he "distinctly remembers"..."or something to that effect"? <skynxxxxxxx>
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Didn't we just recently discuss on here that if someone punched you in the face you could shoot then in self defense? Wasn't the crowd screaming that punches can kill? Even just one punch?

    I distinctly remember it being about the knock out game or something that that affect.

    It doesn't work out so well in the real world.

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    Except that the guy is alive....better than being dead I guess...

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Except that the guy is alive....better than being dead I guess...
    I agree. He made it out alive so that's a win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Except that the guy is alive....better than being dead I guess...
    That's a rather demotic way to say the old saw that is "Better judged by twelve men good and true, than carried by six weeping and blue."
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    We have a criminal jury system which is superior to any in the world; and its efficiency is only marred by the difficulty of finding twelve men every day who don't know anything and can't read. - Mark Twain
    Uh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJC View Post
    Jury found him guilty.
    Might doesn't make right. Before DNA forensic was available, many people were thrown in jail who were innocent. DNA evidence exonerated them years later in some cases. DNA evidence is 99.9% accurate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJC View Post
    Jury found him guilty.
    I am seeing a Mike Nyfong effect happening all over: Overzealous cops and DAs ready to incarcerate law abiding CCers like it was a business to keep jails full for the money.
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014...s-against-him/
    Pray tell me when is it OK to use deadly force if you can't use it like you were trained to in the CC classes and the law?
    No I am not a leo basher. One of my best friend is a sargent in the police force.

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    Regular Member Fuller Malarkey's Avatar
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    Let's hope this doesn't become a situation where this guy Green gets all the justice he can afford, rather than all the justice available. I'm thinking appeal[s], for at least one reason, challenging jury instruction.

    This issue has some far reaching implications and could affect future defensive situations, and my concern is for the 105 pound woman defending against a 235 pound unarmed rapist, a 73 year old man defending he and his 72 year old wife from attack by multiple unarmed assailants, the 46 year old with a heart condition.... and besides, it sets a double standard where low impulse control police shoot and kill people almost daily and get a pass if they can articulate, with legal representation and union coaching, the phrase "aw feared fer ma life", compared to non-gladiator class citizens that will have no such defense. The message being, it seems, if you as a non-gladiator sheep are afraid, stay home or move.
    Last edited by Fuller Malarkey; 01-09-2014 at 01:34 PM.
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    Move or stay home.....what's the problem. You grab a gat, well, we can't be having any of that now, can we.

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    Appeal Appeal Appeal! I say! 45 yrs in jail possibility. Appeal!

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    it was unreasonable for Green to use deadly force in what was clearly "a fist fight.
    To be expected as that the job of the DA is to persecute....I mean, prosecute, make it so the accused is found guilty, period.
    Funny...about an hour ago I was talking with people about a beating in an urban area and stated how profoundly grateful that I no longer live in such areas.
    I'd not live in milwaukee county, nor even go there. People that do, well, they can--and often do--fall prey to The Political Machine that runs that place, or any other such place.

    Too bad for the dead guy.
    Too bad for the guy that shot him.

    And for the life of me, I can't understand why mcarthy stopped running the ball when they were running it so well.
    Last edited by chowda; 01-09-2014 at 11:58 PM.

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